Coaching Angst - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I already predicted that Ricki would be kept on as a scout. Sigh

Think we'd be better with a Cub Scout.

We certainly could do with a Guide at the moment....

5 wins in 21 games......

Coaches who have had a few seasons ... looking at their record to date from http://www.ultimatealeague.com/managers.php

Percentages of success of all their coaching in the A=League.

Coach ...... Win ....... Draw ....... Lost

GA ...........51.76 ........ 25.88 ......22.35

AP.............52.48.........24.75.......22.77

FF............42.5...........26.25.......31.25

GVE........37.04.........24.07.......38.84

RH..........36.08.........22.15.......41.77

The debate about Ricki's retention as Nix coach my include factors that have very little to do with on field results and quite a bit to do with $$$. The owners, who are trying to balance the books will probably look at the costs involved with changing the coach. We all know Ricki has another two years to run on his contract. A lot depends on whats in this contract but unless it contains water tight clauses that would stand up in an employment court regarding performance based dismissal then they just can't fire him without awarding significant compensation.

Ricki could walk but I doubt that as he is committed to the AW WC campaign and is getting paid SFA for that role. So thats probably why the Board are saying that whatever happens he will have some role in the club for the next two years...they can't get him out of the contract. The million dollar question now is whether the Board is prepared to fork out another $250,000 to $300,000 per year for a proper replacement. Considering the club is basically running on a shoe string with the bare minimum of back room support it is hard to imagine a situation where we had a Director of football of Ricki's stature AND a "name" first team coach.

The Board are probably desperately hoping that the teams performances improve dramatically and then at the seasons end they can "spin" the story that things are looking up, Ricki will be kept on because he needs more time to "bed" in the new system. They will promise that the squad will be significantly strengthened and Hernandez's signing will be held up as an example of where we are heading regarding recruitment. Whether the fans and public would buy into this is any ones guess.

Of course this is all speculation on my behalf....but it is a possibilty that Ricki may well still be coach next season. 

I reckon you're probably spot on the money there austin10.

There are a lot of different factors in play here, not least the money.

Even if Ricki gets the shove (which will involve shelling out some cash) the Board know that they've then got to find market rate salary for the new coach, which will probably be extra $ over what they're paying now for anybody half decent (and they won't be getting any subsidy from NZF). Then there's the whole question of back-room staff. A new coach will inevitably want to bring in one or two new assistants = more money. A new coach will also probably want to do some more expansive player recruitment, maybe even pay a few contracts out = more money.

I feel a bit sorry for Ricki in a way. He is probably the worst resourced coach in the A-League and he takes a lot of shit for not doing some things well that other coaches probably don't even have to worry about. But the fact he puts up with that is probably a big part of his appeal to Welnix.

Which is not to say he should stay, but I am prepared for the fact that he might.

wiuth the Welnix giys at the helm $$ is always going to be a pig player in decisions, Ricki has signed for anoter 2 years? so he'll eitther be coach or employed at the nix in some position, are the WElnix guys going to buy him out of a contract he's just signed - no f**n way. so calls for him to go are wasted. I'm not defending his tactics or selections - some of them have been poor. I expect we'll see Ricki next season coaching as he does this season, if the new signings he brings on in the off season are good we may actually have the right squad to play the footy demanded.

 Agree with you both.

But don't feel sorry for RH at all. He just doesn't have the tactical appreciation of the new A League standard coaches. Andy Harper summed it up really well during last nights commentary - several times. He's stuck in the mud, and has absolutely no idea how to get out of it. And the players look like their just winging it as they go during matches. Don't think they have any idea what their individual roles are thru transitions.

However - you are all right. This is about money. If the contract is water tight for RH - then there's no way these owners will want to pay Herbert out. If that's the case, it will be the worst mistake these businessmen have ever made. The Phoenix is already in dire danger of not being significant. They will finish last - and by a lot. 

I don't feel sorry for him. He's had glory as a player, glory as a coach, including World Cup, good salary, 6 years at the Nix...

Poor Ricki for being criticised because his team is coming last and he doesn't have the best resources...oh the humanity.

So there is agreement that:

a) Welnix aren't likely to invest heavily in anything

b) Our squad is ageing

c) Our coach has a preferred style of playing but is trying to do something different

Given a) and c) probably aren't going to change much, the focus for next season should be b).

Or is there another option?

(that doesn't involve the Lance Armstrong option or the NRL approach)

Good question. I think that due to the points you've stated, we need watertight tactics and great morale - either from Ricki or new coach or new assistants or whomever. We have to get the best out of the players we have/will get. It's the only way I can see us competing with better squads.

It depends. A new coach could improve morale/excitement among the players immediately. That in iteslf would make a big difference. Of course, there's no guarantee that would happen.Tacticswise, it would obviously take a lot longer for an impact to occur.

But as I've stated heaps of times, I don't believe Ricki's tactics are good. That's debatable; but if I don't believe they are good, I can only conclude a new coach would have different tactics, and hope they are better. If they are worse, at least you can conclude that in fact, Ricki was fine. He wasn't the problem.

But how will we know if he is the ONLY coach we ever have? I just don't know of any other successful profession team in the modern era that seems to say "we're sticking with the coach no matter what the results". (I know he will have a review, but still..)

I'm not saying a new coach would even be any better. It's impossible to know. But that's life; if something isn't working, you change approach. No one would bat an eyelid if someone like Lia was replaced, because he hasn't performed very well. Even Ifill, who has been brilliant, but seems to have given up. I don't see why Ricki should be any different just because he's the coach.

 While i agree a new coach may not be the easy fix many seem to think it might be.There has clearly been a breakdown of some sort amongst the squad.Far to easy to just right it off as this player or that is just badly out of form.Ifill looked shocking yesterday and he barely looked interested at times for not the first time this season.

Have to laugh that some people seem to be happy in some sort of way that we wernt as bad as some of the other peformances this season.Frankly yesteday like many other games this season just wasnt good enough and i for one wish some of the players would show some of the passion for the Phoenix that many on here do.Sick of hearing them say they do care then all we get is another below standard effort with little passion.

the way I see it, a good coach helps make a team be better than the sum of its players, while a bad coach does the opposite. I think our players are better than our results/performances, so that's my rationale in a nutshell.

current situation:

coach in a rut - stuck for ideas, can't see a way out of the current slump, try's things but players fail to take the input on board

players in a slump, nothing the coach says works, we are getting beaten at home when we could just turn up and win before

future solutions?

replace the coach and maybe the players get excited for a game or two and maybe play better, at some point he is going to be the old coach and that excitment will have gone and the players age, and ability frailties will shine through

or replace aging players and give any coach, new or existing, the chance to coach a young enthusiastic team who will try anything just to get gametime.

I know which option I'd be choosing and given we have 6-7 players coming off contract this season we have an absolute blinder of a chance to give the coach (ricki or whoever) a young, talanted team who want to proove themselves.

I'd like to take a banner to the ground on Sunday. It will say "Ricky Out".

Will security take it off me the same way the "Mulvey Out" sign was at the Roar game?

I'm a diehard Phoenix fan, but I've had a gutsful. I'm not going to stop supporting them, but I cannot stand by any longer while the team lacks direction from the coach. He is stale and the team's performances reflect that. I refuse to boo the players. They don't play badly deliberately. The rot is at the top.

We have to do a similar thing, the smaller banners that some of us have done have to be shown to the head honcho at Red Badge when we turn up at the ground via the CCTV cameras.

Just on the money thing mentioned I mentioned these two guys a little way back and neither at the moment would cost and arm and leg...

Ante Milicic

Paul Okon 

So what has RH said about last night ???

any interviews ? Probably same old bollocks as usual.

I noticed today that Ricki said that the other teams we have to face in the coming weeks fear us more..........

see attached link - says bugger all to be honest

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/Herbert-not-giving-up-finals-hopes/61104

"They'll probably fear playing us more than some of the other sides at the moment."

In his defence Stein was awful for the last fortnight.  He'd have struggled to make the Nighthawks (I lie, our strikers are shit).  Let's hope last night is the Stein we see for the next year and 6 games. 

Incidentally, last night his movement was excellent and I'm amazed he didn't just walk up and slap people for not passing to him when he was a clear option.

Herbert's dillusional. Oz thinks we are a joke right now, or RH still being coach is.   

Ricki is in need of some psychological counselling I think. Any more statements like the above and a forensic assessment may be required too

"We're the side now that can be desperate, as we need to be, and be the side that can make it tough for teams around us.

"We play a lot of those sides. We've got Melbourne Heart, we've got Newcastle, Perth Glory; we've got all those sides to play yet, Melbourne Victory.

"They'll probably fear playing us more than some of the other sides at the moment."

Playing the 'watch out for the desperate side' line.

Smacks of desperation :)

Questions :)

As a whole, are our players better than last place?

If so, what are you doing Ricki?

If not, what are you doing Ricki?

I guess the other point about coaching is the current situation where Herbert coaches the Nix and the All Whites. Whether Ricki gets sacked or not as Nix coach is obviously hotly disputed. But I don't think that there would be many who now think that one person can do  both jobs to a high standard. Its an often used cliche that "this is a critical year in our history"  Well in some ways it is. NZF vitally needs the $10 + million from the AW's qualifying for the World Cup. The money from the last WC has funded all sorts of development programs....it has given the game here a big shot in the arm. At the same time it is very important the Nix don't end up as a disfunctional club like the Knights.

If Ricki ends his Nix coaching career and concentrates 100% on the AW's campaign then IMO that strenghtens our chances of qualifying. At the same time if the Nix appoints a new coach at the end of the season then the Nix have a greater chance of success next season. A new coach can concentrate 100% on the Nix. He can spend time to focus properly on recruitment. He can spend his whole time in the off season working on tactics and formations. He won't be distracted by being dragged off on AW duty.

Just consider for a moment what happens if we keep the status quo. Its already been reported (NZ Herald) that the AW's will play at least four warm up games prior to the November playoffs( most overseas) It will be bad enough losing Nix players to the AW's but do we really want the Nix coach spending a considerable part of the first third of next season not 100% focused on the team?.(do we have any faith in the current assistant to run the show in Ricki's absence?) The club can't afford to follow a bad season with a poor start to a new season. 

 Wow. You're not content with calling RH an incompetent coach, now you're calling aspersions on his mental health. Next it'll be accepted wisdom in this thread that his parents were brother and sister and he wears adult diapers to games.

You can say anything about the scapegoat of the moment and you won't be accused of going too far. All the nastiness instead gets directed at those who don't agree with the snowballing frenzy.