Wellington Phoenix Men

Coaching Angst - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

2374 replies · 72,193 views Locked
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Cosimo wrote:

The angst pretty much goes away if people just accept the A-League isn't a high standard of football.

Seriously, this is what I have done, and it makes watching it far less frustrating.

We DREW the game - that pretty much makes it an even game. If we were absolute piss, how the hell didn't we lose 5- 0?

The only way it would've been absolute piss is if we were an EPL standard team playing an A-League standard team, and only drawing. Then, it would be justified. But we are just an A-League team who drew with another - at worst, it was an average performance.
 
What is frustrating, as I have said a million times now, is that I believe we CAN do much better than that! Adelaide were missing quite a few players, and I don't think we'll ever get a better chance to beat them. The way the team set up in the 2nd half suggested we were happy with the point, or at the very most to nick a goal!
 
If you think we couldn't keep up the pace of the first half (which I personally didn't think was anything particularly rip-roaring by the way), then the players aren't fit enough.


agree. Again.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Great match, sad we ran out of steam, but we threw everything at them in the first half.Can't believe anyone would call it "piss awful" who was actually there at the stadium, the crowd was well into it.


Herbert has his faults, but he also has burdens that most other A league coaches don't have, firstly he has to try recruiting players to come all the way here and not some sun-kissed city in Aussie.

Secondly he has the AFC president trying to pull the plug on the Phoenix, would you want to sign for a club that might well vanish in a couple of years? OK unlikely but it is a possibility.

Thirdly and crucially he has no reserve/youth team set up, he is always going to struggle to get the best out of fringe players with only a handful of preseason matches to test out who fits in where. Form and fitness is always going to be a bigger issue for us.

It is a major credit to the club the signings we have achieved this season and I can see more players of this quality being signed in future. The team is only a couple of players away from seriously challenging for the top spots.

I say carry on Ricki.


On a different note, you lads, wearing those scarves on your faces, singing in the pub pre-match,you sort of ran out of steam after about 15mins. Kids today no stamina

I liked the sound of the new chants you came up with but could'nt hear all the words.



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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ForteanTimes wrote:
Great match, sad we ran out of steam, but we threw everything at them in the first half.Can't believe anyone would call it "piss awful" who was actually there at the stadium, the crowd was well into it.


Herbert has his faults, but he also has burdens that most other A league coaches don't have, firstly he has to try recruiting players to come all the way here and not some sun-kissed city in Aussie.

Secondly he has the AFC president trying to pull the plug on the Phoenix, would you want to sign for a club that might well vanish in a couple of years? OK unlikely but it is a possibility.

Thirdly and crucially he has no reserve/youth team set up, he is always going to struggle to get the best out of fringe players with only a handful of preseason matches to test out who fits in where. Form and fitness is always going to be a bigger issue for us.

It is a major credit to the club the signings we have achieved this season and I can see more players of this quality being signed in future. The team is only a couple of players away from seriously challenging for the top spots.

I say carry on Ricki.


On a different note, you lads, wearing those scarves on your faces, singing in the pub pre-match,you sort of ran out of steam after about 15mins. Kids today no stamina

I liked the sound of the new chants you came up with but could'nt hear all the words.



 
 
All of the above is all very well - I think the recruitment has been pretty good (although another defender might've been good) - it is the actual way we are playing on the park that is getting me down.
 
If the fitness becomes a problem (which may be the case as we seemed finished after about 60 minutes) then we NEED to organise games against other teams during the week or whatever, simple as that.
 
If we don't make the play offs then it's going to be easier for the FFA to pull the plug is it not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ForteanTimes wrote:
Great match, sad we ran out of steam, but we threw everything at them in the first half.Can't believe anyone would call it "piss awful" who was actually there at the stadium, the crowd was well into it.

Herbert has his faults, but he also has burdens that most other A league coaches don't have, firstly he has to try recruiting players to come all the way here and not some sun-kissed city in Aussie.

Secondly he has the AFC president trying to pull the plug on the Phoenix, would you want to sign for a club that might well vanish in a couple of years? OK unlikely but it is a possibility.

Thirdly and crucially he has no reserve/youth team set up, he is always going to struggle to get the best out of fringe players with only a handful of preseason matches to test out who fits in where. Form and fitness is always going to be a bigger issue for us.

It is a major credit to the club the signings we have achieved this season and I can see more players of this quality being signed in future. The team is only a couple of players away from seriously challenging for the top spots.

I say carry on Ricki.

+1
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Tonight was the final straw for me I'm afraid.
 
.
 
If you have a season ticket and no longer want it let me know.  I can happily find a home for it. 
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[QUOTE=Cosimo]
 I thought the tactics were fine, but the execution wasn't.


[/QUOTE
 
]
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ForteanTimes wrote:
On a different note, you lads, wearing those scarves on your faces, singing in the pub pre-match,you sort of ran out of steam after about 15mins. Kids today no stamina

I liked the sound of the new chants you came up with but could'nt hear all the words.



 
Yellow Fury

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
dairyflat wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Tonight was the final straw for me I'm afraid.
 
.
 
If you have a season ticket and no longer want it let me know.  I can happily find a home for it. 
 
Ticketek ensured I didn't bother with a season ticket.
 
And I will still go to every game!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
dairyflat wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Tonight was the final straw for me I'm afraid.
 
.
 
If you have a season ticket and no longer want it let me know.  I can happily find a home for it. 
 
Ticketek ensured I didn't bother with a season ticket.
 
And I will still go to every game!


It's sunny and awesome outside. You've been on this thread for over 3 hours.

Go outside and play!!
Royal2009-09-05 14:34:01
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Royal wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
dairyflat wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Tonight was the final straw for me I'm afraid.
 
.
 
If you have a season ticket and no longer want it let me know.  I can happily find a home for it. 
 
Ticketek ensured I didn't bother with a season ticket.
 
And I will still go to every game!


It's sunny and awesome outside. You've been on this thread for over 3 hours.

Go outside and play!!
 
Spent all my money on beer and Phoenix and betting last night!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"Ricki Herbert must go"

I disagree, here's why.
  1. You and I are supporters, we are not in charge so we have no say in it.  Terry Serepisos has already extended Ricki's contract and as I think Terry is a smart fella I imagine he has some good reasons behind extending it and behind making the extension so early in the season.
  2. We are supporters. Jumping up and down and making demands is not very supportive behaviour.  I would feel like I was insulting Terry's decision by making the demand that you have made.  So far I have invested about $110 in my Nix involvement.  Terry has waved goodbye to $2.5 million, and counting, to make this team happen and I have to respect him for that kind of commitment and included in that is respect for his choices.
  3. I am enjoying what the Nix have achieved so far (I enjoyed last night's game too). If I stop enjoying my involvement I can go off and do something else, quietly.  Heck, this is just a pastime, no one is forcing us to support the Nix.
  4. I am sober while I write this and I didn't lose any money on a sports bet so things are pretty chilled out in my neck of the woods, I hope they are cooling down in yours.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I reckon re assess at the end of this season (or nearer the end)

It is a longer season after all - how many games are left? 22? A hell of a lot can change in that time frame.

a.haak

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
if the majority of the posts on hear are positive about Ricki and rebutting the arguments against...is there anyway we can rename the thread or lock it (and here i'm guilty) cos it looks like 9 pages of cant about Ricki.

which it aint. 


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ricki is a good coach, but when results do not go your way iinevitably he gets blamed. Two things went aginst him this weekend. One we couldn't finish and the linesmen is an idiot.
 
Had both gone our way we'd be looking at our biggest win in our a league history, and singing from the roof tops.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
martinb wrote:
if the majority of the posts on hear are positive about Ricki and rebutting the arguments against...is there anyway we can rename the thread or lock it (and here i'm guilty) cos it looks like 9 pages of cant about Ricki.

which it aint. 
 
I think it's called 'debate'?
 
Majority rules so lock the thread? What?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
Ricki is a good coach, but when results do not go your way iinevitably he gets blamed. Two things went aginst him this weekend. One we couldn't finish and the linesmen is an idiot.
 
Had both gone our way we'd be looking at our biggest win in our a league history, and singing from the roof tops.
 
We can say 'if this / that / the other had happened...' till we are blue in the face - it DID NOT happen!
 
If your Auntie had balls she'd be your uncle.
 
If we'd scored 10 goals we'd have won 10-1. Not a very constructive argument is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
Ricki is a good coach, but when results do not go your way iinevitably he gets blamed. Two things went aginst him this weekend. One we couldn't finish and the linesmen is an idiot.
 
Had both gone our way we'd be looking at our biggest win in our a league history, and singing from the roof tops.
 
Rikki is a good coach based on what?

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
martinb wrote:
if the majority of the posts on hear are positive about Ricki and rebutting the arguments against...is there anyway we can rename the thread or lock it (and here i'm guilty) cos it looks like 9 pages of cant about Ricki.

which it aint. 
 
I think it's called 'debate'?
 
Majority rules so lock the thread? What?


so you would be fine renaming it just Ricki Herbert or 'Nix Tactics or Coaching staff

as opposed to 9 pages of Ricki Must Go/complain here...?


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
paullt wrote:
TouchMe wrote:
Ricki is a good coach, but when results do not go your way iinevitably he gets blamed. Two things went aginst him this weekend. One we couldn't finish and the linesmen is an idiot.
�

Had both gone our way we'd be looking at our biggest win in our a league history, and singing from the roof tops.

�

Rikki is a good coach based on what?


Compare Ricki's record at the Knights with everyone elses....
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
martinb wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
martinb wrote:
if the majority of the posts on hear are positive about Ricki and rebutting the arguments against...is there anyway we can rename the thread or lock it (and here i'm guilty) cos it looks like 9 pages of cant about Ricki.

which it aint. 
 
I think it's called 'debate'?
 
Majority rules so lock the thread? What?


so you would be fine renaming it just Ricki Herbert or 'Nix Tactics or Coaching staff

as opposed to 9 pages of Ricki Must Go/complain here...?
 
What's the point of renaming it? I started the thread, it is my opinion Ricki should go, hence the title of the thread 'Ricki must go'.
 
Like you, people are able to read and see for themselves it's not 9 pages of people agreeing with each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Gangsta! wrote:
paullt wrote:
TouchMe wrote:
Ricki is a good coach, but when results do not go your way iinevitably he gets blamed. Two things went aginst him this weekend. One we couldn't finish and the linesmen is an idiot.
 

Had both gone our way we'd be looking at our biggest win in our a league history, and singing from the roof tops.

 

Rikki is a good coach based on what?


Compare Ricki's record at the Knights with everyone elses....
 
Didn't the Knights finish rock bottom?
 
I think Ricki is fine in terms of 'steadying the ship', however I don't believe he is capable of taking us forward and onto the next level. He's had 2 and a bit years now, and a slight improvement in performances (but not results) in that time doesn't really equate to that much in the way of progress.
Steve-O2009-09-05 18:50:51

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
 
Like you, people are able to read and see for themselves it's not 9 pages of people agreeing with each other.


Its 6 pages of debate and 3 pages from you.

I'm not privy to Ricki's training, but I presume they have shooting and heading practice. I dont know what he says before the match or at half time, those cones look interesting, but I dont think he said "switch off for a while in the second half and then we'll have a flurry for the last 10."

If he is responsible for the way players play, then big ups for coaching Daniel to be better than last few weeks, for Ifill looking more the man each week, for Greenacre's heart and drive, for.... for taking Deigo off before halftime last week, and only giving him a wee run this time...

The only thing I would like to see is us attacking more when away. Please get that going Ricki, we need to be chasing 3 points every game. 1's wont do it.


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hepatitis wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
 
Like you, people are able to read and see for themselves it's not 9 pages of people agreeing with each other.


Its 6 pages of debate and 3 pages from you.

I'm not privy to Ricki's training, but I presume they have shooting and heading practice. I dont know what he says before the match or at half time, those cones look interesting, but I dont think he said "switch off for a while in the second half and then we'll have a flurry for the last 10."

If he is responsible for the way players play, then big ups for coaching Daniel to be better than last few weeks, for Ifill looking more the man each week, for Greenacre's heart and drive, for.... for taking Deigo off before halftime last week, and only giving him a wee run this time...

The only thing I would like to see is us attacking more when away. Please get that going Ricki, we need to be chasing 3 points every game. 1's wont do it.


 
Well this seems to happen more often than not in our home games, so he certainly doesn't seem to be doing anything to address it if it's not the gameplan he asked for.
 
I have lost count of the number of times I've left the stadium saying "If only they'd played how they played in the last 5-10 minutes for the rest of the game we'd have won easily".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
instead of bitching like a .......um......bitch on here Steve-o, shut down YF, start up Iraqgoals and watch Smeltz tearing it up again for GCU.  At the end of the game think about how the Phoenix lost the best striker in the A League, and are still in a position where we are scoring more goals and creating more chances than last season. 
 
And then have a long think about if the club has approved.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
instead of bitching like a .......um......bitch on here Steve-o, shut down YF, start up Iraqgoals and watch Smeltz tearing it up again for GCU.� At the end of the game think about how the Phoenix lost the best striker�in the A League, and are still�in a position where we are scoring more goals and creating more chances than last season.�


�

And then have a long think about if the club has approved.


Wow, that was... moving.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
instead of bitching like a .......um......bitch on here Steve-o, shut down YF, start up Iraqgoals and watch Smeltz tearing it up again for GCU.  At the end of the game think about how the Phoenix lost the best striker in the A League, and are still in a position where we are scoring more goals and creating more chances than last season. 
 
And then have a long think about if the club has approved.
 
I just saw Smeltz score, and the fact is that we are missing him badly, even with the new players.
 
We've scored 6 goals in 5 games - nothing to shout from the rooftops about.
 
Overall, squad has possibly improved, however results so far have not really.
 
After 5 games last season how many points did we have? Can't actually remember.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
2 points.
1-1 draw against the Raw, 0-0 against the Mariners. We got our first win in round 6 against Sydney.
Signs are much more promising now than this time last season, without a doubt.
You know we belong together...

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oska wrote:
2 points.
1-1 draw against the Raw, 0-0 against the Mariners. We got our first win in round 6 against Sydney.
Signs are much more promising now than this time last season, without a doubt.
 
Thing is though, if we lose next week, then we'll have the exact same number of points after 6 rounds as we did last season. Progress?
 
I guess we'll just need to see what happens on Sunday though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hello, first post, long time guest and finally decided to register! :)
 
Ok I got halfway through the thread and gave up!  I too was dissapointed with the way we played yesterday, some thoughts:
 
1) I think we need to play 2 up front at home, preferable Ifill and Greenacre, signs of a good understanding there, and as for the mdifield two, needs to be Lia (who has impressed as a nice tidy midfielder who can pass a ball) and probably Brown, though at least one of them needs to be given licence to get forward!  Oh and Hearfield and Bertos out wide please...
 
2) Leaving it to 84 mins to make the subs to change the game is a waste of time...
 
3) Daniel - on yesterdays performance could see why he doesn't start, slows our build up right down and has no real heart for the fight, good skill levels but not good enough application again...but like Diego too...hope the new Agrentinian isnt in the same mould.
 
4) Ricki has done well to attract Ifill and Greenacre, both have improved the squad, just got to hope he can work out how to build an effective team around them, 1 up front at home is just not good enough.
 
5) Decent size of crowd given it was a cold Friday night
 
6) First time I have lost my voice at  a Nix game, combination of frustration and trying to urge them on!
 
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
Hello, first post, long time guest and finally decided to register! :)
 
5) Decent size of crowd given it was a cold Friday night
 
6) First time I have lost my voice at  a Nix game, combination of frustration and trying to urge them on!
 
 
 
Welcome!  Now I can stop calling myself a newbie.
 
5) I was disappointed with the crowd size, but I guess it was coldish
 
6) Here's to hoping you lose your voice more often at Nix games, but mostly for positive reasons.
 
Was just reflecting today how it is good that we are in NZ and the games are sort of every fortnight - gives the voice time to recover.  Would hate to think what weekly matches would do over the course of a few seasons.
 

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Oska wrote:
2 points.
1-1 draw against the Raw, 0-0 against the Mariners. We got our first win in round 6 against Sydney.
Signs are much more promising now than this time last season, without a doubt.
 
Thing is though, if we lose next week, then we'll have the exact same number of points after 6 rounds as we did last season. Progress?
 
I guess we'll just need to see what happens on Sunday though.
mate you should write the pessimists guide to optimism I bet it would be a best seller
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
giddyup wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Oska wrote:
2 points.
1-1 draw against the Raw, 0-0 against the Mariners. We got our first win in round 6 against Sydney.
Signs are much more promising now than this time last season, without a doubt.
 
Thing is though, if we lose next week, then we'll have the exact same number of points after 6 rounds as we did last season. Progress?
 
I guess we'll just need to see what happens on Sunday though.
mate you should write the pessimists guide to optimism I bet it would be a best seller
 
Realists guide to realism might be better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
giddyup wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Oska wrote:
2 points.
1-1 draw against the Raw, 0-0 against the Mariners. We got our first win in round 6 against Sydney.
Signs are much more promising now than this time last season, without a doubt.
 
Thing is though, if we lose next week, then we'll have the exact same number of points after 6 rounds as we did last season. Progress?
 
I guess we'll just need to see what happens on Sunday though.
mate you should write the pessimists guide to optimism I bet it would be a best seller
 
Realists guide to realism might be better.
Grumpy old men ?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
giddyup wrote:
Grumpy old men ?
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
giddyup wrote:
Grumpy old men ?
 
yeah about that grumpy
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Junior82 wrote:
5) I was disappointed with the crowd size, but I guess it was coldish


Second best crowd of the round...
 
A bit worrying that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Junior82 wrote:
5) I was disappointed with the crowd size, but I guess it was coldish


Second best crowd of the round...
 
True, true.  However it did make it look like my earlier prediction of "a crowd of 10,025... unless it's blowing a Sou-Easterly, then it would be 8,672"  was totally contrived!
 
(must use entrails of a free-range chicken next time)
 
Junior822009-09-06 00:14:26

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Three Five Seven years tops !
 
Don't get it? Sorry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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