Contracted Players - Return of the Long Pins

except westpac is a council owned trust. Their mandate isn't to make money and pay a dividend but to be self sufficient and attract events to the city.

lol, "attract events to the city". Not laughing at you but them. Bruce Sprinsgteen comes to mind, the Rolling Stones, the Eagles. Not a word from Westpac, not what apoears to be any effort in getting those acts here. Next up, the Ellerslie flower show?

Where are they going to go? Welnix are Wellington people - they don't know about anywhere else. I imagine the stadium in Christchurch is cheaper but Auckland would probably be just as expensive. Wherever they play in NZ they are going to lose money.

Wow, thread drift... clicked on "Contracted Players" and had well over a page of stadium fees and operating models discussion before I saw ANYTHING about contracted players.

I think Welnix are being naive if they truly expect to make a profit. How many football teams in the world make a profit? It would astound me that so many wealthy businessmen could be so stupid to think that the Wellington Phoenix is profitable. Does any A-League team make a profit? They all are owned by wealthy businesses or consortiums.

I accept there is a huge possibility Welnix will pull the pin but they won't be making a profit wherever in the world they decide to move. Why would a bunch of business men from Wellington bother owning an A-League franchise in Christchurch which loses money.

American sports teams make money because the business model is completely different.

Thought they wanted for it to be self sufficient? Shouldn't be too hard in a league where your salary cap is covered.

Well nimbys in Thorndon don't let the stadium host more than some small number of loud concerts per year. I think the number is 2 or 4..

The last concert at the stadium was Bon Jovi in 2010.

Was that the one where they used his sound system that sucked when they should have plugged in to the stadium one for a better effect?

I so much want to negative rep this post.

Can I report it for containing offensive language? 

B*n @rsewipe J*vi.  Feckintwunts

Okay well I was just going off Westpac Stadium's site. It seems that concert happened before a Phoenix game.

The point is that there are very few peple who can get a decent crowd to the stadium for a concert.

Dane Rumble only got about 9k crowd according to wiki. 

tbh I thought the warm up act and the bit after Rumble's gig were much better.  Although even that was a bit sh!t from memory.

Just wanted to bump this in anticipation of an update in the near future...

Tom Doyle?

How many teams do you know of that makes a profit by finishing last or near enough last for it not to matter? If we were to make the finals, or heck even win the A-League, there is a financial boost that accompanies it. Results are everything. 

CCM have won the league a lot and aren't exactly profitable. We won't start magically packing out stadiums and turning a profit if we make the finals, in fact we already did so for a few seasons then terry went broke and the club almost folded. 

Oh no I agree with what you're saying, but I think you'd agree that it would be better for the club if we were making the finals more often than not. It'd be a step in the right direction that's for sure. 

Terry went broke due to other reasons?

The Houston Astros have gone on one of the worst runs in MLB history in the last 4 seasons and have posted 3 consecutive 100 loss seasons which puts them very high up on the list of worst ever baseball teams. Despite all of this they were the most profitable team in 2013. Much of this has to do with the different business model I alluded to earlier. If the Astros were an English football team they would now be in League Two and making nothing. A business model like the Astros does have relevance when you support a small market team in a relegation free league. Despite those 3 100 loss seasons, the Astros are on target to do better this year and are expected to be competitive from next season. Once again, they are benefited by a business model which has a draft but then again they also have no salary cap.

Yes winning brings a financial boost but getting there also creates a financial cost. Results are important but they aren't enough by themselves. We have a poor business model; so does almost everyone else in the league. I doubt anyone makes a profit. Long term I'm hoping that the natural growth of football in this country, the increase in quality of the A-League, the establishment of a NZ derby and the Phoenix becoming more of an institution will lead to higher attendances. 

Linking it back to the thread topic, if we bought a really good marquee for 1 million dollars then at ticket prices of $30 we would need to sell another 33,000 tickets per season or about 2,500 per game. Obviously, there are shirt sales too but not all of that $30 would go to the Phoenix either. The Phoenix owners seem to think that a marquee wouldn't have that impact.

Phoenix skipper Andrew Durante has signed a 1-year contract extension, keeping him in Wgtn until end of 2015-16 A-League season @A_Dura22

— Jason Pine (@pineyzb) July 16, 2014

Updated:

EXPIRES END OF 2014/15:

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Michael BOXALL

Tyler BOYD (u21)

Josh BRINDELL-SOUTH

Jeremy BROCKIE

Reece CAIRA

Kenny CUNNINGHAM (f)

Louis FENTON (u21)

Jason HICKS

Lewis ITALIANO

Glen MOSS

Albert RIERA (f)

Ben SIGMUND

.

EXPIRES END OF 2015/16:

.

Nathan BURNS

Andrew DURANTE

Alejandro GORRIN (f) (+1)

Roy KRISHNA (f)

Vince LIA

Manny MUSCAT

Matthew RIDENTON (u21)

Alex RUFER (u21)

Not Necessarily saying we have to spend money on 'big' name players. I just feel some of our current crop aren't at the level anymore. Our youth players did a really good job last year. Yes, they may not be quite as good as the 'regulars' yet but there isn't a large gap between them. And they're all about 10 years younger. 

Comparing A MLB team to a A-League team is rather unrealistic. I see where you're coming from, but it just doesn't apply as much here. So what is our business model?

I see our business model being similar to CCM, no expensive players, emphasis on youth development and growing our own players over expensive recruitment, having a largely cheap squad with the rest of the cap space going to fill gaps and provide some experience and quality from overseas, eventually selling on players probably. Getting a good coach with the right tactics and recruiting to the needs of the game plan, cheap players who will function well in the system.

The whole money ball thing.

Fair enough, but the difference is that CCM are consistency making finals appearances, and have even won the league. I think we should be using youth more than we are now. In saying that, what Merrick has done in the last 12 months has outweighed everything Ricki did in his time at the helm. No youth development system was crazy.

I think the difficult thing in the A-League is that you develop a player like Rojas maybe for 5 years and then you get one season out of him. Obviously we didn't put that much time into Rojas but it is an example. You can't be always about the youth because transfer fees are nothing at this level and you hardly ever sign players up on long term deals. Is planning more than one season ahead even possible?

I think our strategy is like you say. The emphasis is on finding players who will do a specific role and fit well into the team dynamic.Our business model right now is to hope that rich people continue to subsidise it which is similar to almost every other team. Apparently in the 2012-13 season the Victory made a profit, Adelaide and Heart broke even and everyone else lost money. If WSW and CCM can compete in grand finals and lose money then I think that is indicative of the difficulties of running a profitable team, successful or otherwise. I'm hoping that the business model will improve over time as the Phoenix become more of an institution and the A-League grows as a football competition.

Yeah, Ricki ignored our strongest advantage which is being the only real avenue for Kiwi players, meaning we have a youth system of the entirety of NZ's domestic leagues. For some reason, despite being the national coach and having a vested interest in developing NZ talent, Ricki insisted on employing costly Australian Journeymen. Crazyness in hindsight.

I wonder if Gorrin's +1 year option will be activated if/when we get a license extension from FFA?

And it completely ruined our 2014 WC campaign. Even the stand-in coach knew to play youth. Now we stand a chance at 2018.

Maybe if/when he turns out to be decent, too

Updated:

EXPIRES END OF 2014/15:

.

Michael BOXALL

Tyler BOYD (u21)

Josh BRINDELL-SOUTH

Jeremy BROCKIE

Reece CAIRA

Kenny CUNNINGHAM (f)

Louis FENTON (u21)

Jason HICKS

Lewis ITALIANO

Glen MOSS

Albert RIERA (f)

Ben SIGMUND

.

EXPIRES END OF 2015/16:

.

Roly BONEVACIA (f)

Nathan BURNS

Andrew DURANTE

Alejandro GORRIN (f) (+1)

Roy KRISHNA (f)

Vince LIA

Manny MUSCAT

Matthew RIDENTON (u21)

Alex RUFER (u21)

With visa spots being reduced to 4 in 15/16, either Krishna needs his NZ passport or we will have to choose from Riera & Kenny if we wish to re-sign one of them.

Riera

Is Tom Doyle U-21?

so if/when we get wee mac across the line. that will leave us with 1 spot? sure would be hard on boyle not to give it to him.

Updated:

EXPIRES END OF 2014/15:

.

Michael BOXALL

Tyler BOYD (u21)

Josh BRINDELL-SOUTH

Jeremy BROCKIE

Reece CAIRA

Kenny CUNNINGHAM (f)

Louis FENTON (u21)

Jason HICKS

Lewis ITALIANO

Glen MOSS

Albert RIERA (f)

Ben SIGMUND

.

EXPIRES END OF 2015/16:

.

Roly BONEVACIA (f)

Nathan BURNS

Tom DOYLE

Andrew DURANTE

Roy KRISHNA (f)

Vince LIA

Manny MUSCAT

Matthew RIDENTON (u21)

Alex RODRIGUEZ GORRIN (f) (+1)

Alex RUFER (u21)