Things will all change when we start winning and realistically challenging for the championship year after year - the NZ sporting public is that fickle.
Even that’s optimistic. All sides being equal we’d win it once a decade. We are far from equal.
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
I like Darije.
I think he's actually trying things out, and I think he's got a good tactical mind.
I think there's a few things that looked dumb at the time (playing Smith) that look less bad now that we know the full story (Italiano is very weak too).
He was quiet on the sideline at first but you can see clearly now he has a lot of passion for the game and winning.
I think we should stick with Kalezic for at least 1 more season. It's clear that the main issue is the quality of players at the club at the moment, and he has had very little influence on that. And the influence he has had has been for the better, clearly.
I am a bit confused about why Parkhouse has been playing on the right though...
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
I am a bit confused about why Parkhouse has been playing on the right though...
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
I simply do not read the Stuff reader comments anymore, and I also do not agree with Nix Nix here that "Kalezic is doomed" regardless of whether we finish last or second-last.
As a side note, I believe these Stuff comments are fake. Nothing to do with Stuff, and a lot to do with the "pay to troll" accounts just like those set up by the opposite political camps prior to last year's elections. What I mean is that there is always a (small) group of people with genuine comments, saying things like "this player was OK", "this player was not doing well" etc etc - obviously people who bothered to watch the game. However, there is always a surprising number of troll-like comments by posters with generic account names, who do not seem to offer a specific comment but who say "the club should not exist", "they are a disgrace", "they are like the Warriors", "they should all be sacked", "there is no basis to have a professional football club in NZ", "the sooner they are cut from the league the better", etc. They might be simply genuine malicious people, but they do not seem to understand football or have a comment about the game. They are unable to make a meaningful constructive comment (even if it was a negative one), so why are they even reading or posting under Phoenix articles? Makes me think these are "comments" posted through fake accounts by people paid, however little, to do a PR hatchet job for those in power to say later "there is no local support for the Nix, the public is against them", just like Nix Nix now also seems to think about Darije.
As for Kalezic, he has his work cut out for him, but at least he seems to have a plan. The original plan might have been based on unrealistic expectations of sufficient individual skills and quality available here, though. This is why I have no issue with his modified plan of looking for imports like AK9 or Ljujic to fill the gaps in our own on-field quality. Darije obviously knows what to expect from continental players with known pedigree (even if these are players from middling Euro leagues - they are just about the same or slightly better than Phoenix level). Conversely, he seems to have understood that you can take onboard promising younger Kiwi players and then coach them in a team setting to develop further. At least this is my conclusion from his interest in Sarpreet Singh, in Monty Patterson, in Alex Rufer and in Libby Cacace. This might be the same reason he gives Ridenton plenty of time on the field, despite the occasional errors as expected. We should not be expecting errors from Rossi, Paracki or from Dura though; they are supposed to be the reliable pros.
I may be completely wrong on my next point, and will be happy to hear your contrarian views. I reckon it is entirely possible that Ernie Merrick failed with us because he did not have this "alternative" point of reference that Kalezic has (= continental Europe coaching), since Ernie spent most of his career in Victoria, with the only change his sojourn in Sth East Asia after he was sacked by Victory. Ernie can, in my opinion, succeed with almost any club in Australia, because he is a talented Australian coach and knows how to get the best out the mentality, physicality, skills and money available there. But WPX is not a club like any other A-League club due to many reasons that we all know or can discuss elsewhere. And possibly that is why Ernie was in the end unable to succeed at Nix. His common point of reference were Australian players, in an Australian setting. He simply could not get enough of these players (of good quality) to come here from other Australian clubs. And Ernie could not easily recruit players from outside this frame of reference, although he could more or less accommodate those he already had on our books (like Bonevacia). Consider that he is now able to get the best out of reasonable quality Aussie players at Newcastle Jets, including the visa players already there (because they had to fit into a specific culture), but could not get that from the WPX team, for many reasons. I would go as far as say that if Ernie was a championship winner in HAL and will be again, either with the Jets or anyone else, except the Nix.
If the above sounds confusing, let me rephrase it. Ernie was probably confident he could do well here, after Herbert resigned. He wanted to come back to HAL. and he did not think we were a very different kettle of fish than say CCM or Newcastle. With time, this proved his undoing, as it took him a while to realise we were different. In contrast, I think Darije was already baffled by the quality and culture he has found here at WPX quite early on, despite his previous contacts with the club. This is why Darije tried many different things that made people question if he knew what he was doing. I think he simply wanted to try out different things with the personnel he already had. Since then, he decided to bring a few decent quality Balkan players to the Nix simply to provide a clear yardstick of good performance, by his own standards. Players like Paracki, AK9, Ljulic are at the quality level of Krishna or Burns, so that sets the level. Some local players like Doyle or Ridenton also seem able to aim for that level of quality. The other Kiwi and Aussie players now in the team, like Parkhouse or Galloway, will have a clear standard to aim for their own game, or adapt, or be progressively rotated out. Others like Fox or Mullen can clearly offer more with time, or are able to adapt to what the gaffer wants.
If this is the plan, and if it works, then the younger promising Kiwi guys will also be developing long-term alongside better players. And this is not a plan you can achieve this season. This would only work over several seasons, and I for one wish Kalezic patience, resolve and stamina, since we also need a committed decent quality coach to see us through the licence extension stuff next time round.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
Most people like quick fixes, we need long term change.
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
I simply do not read the Stuff reader comments anymore, and I also do not agree with Nix Nix here that "Kalezic is doomed" regardless of whether we finish last or second-last.
As a side note, I believe these Stuff comments are fake. Nothing to do with Stuff, and a lot to do with the "pay to troll" accounts just like those set up by the opposite political camps prior to last year's elections. What I mean is that there seems to be a (small) group of people saying "this player was OK, this player was not doing well" etc etc as you would expect. However, there is always a surprising number of troll-like comments by the same posters with generic names, which basically say "the club should not exist", "they are a disgrace", "they are like the Warriors", "they should all be sacked", "there is no basis to have a professional football club in NZ", "the sooner they are cut from the league the better", etc. They might be simply malicious, but they do not seem to understand football, as they are unable to make a meaningful comment (even if negative), so why are they even reading or posting under football articles? Makes me think these are "comments" posted through fake accounts by people paid, however little, to do a PR hatchet job for those in power to say later "there is no local support for the Nix, the public is against them", just like Nix Nix now seems to think.
Kalezic has his work cut out for him, but at least he seems to have a plan. The original plan might have been based on unrealistic expectations of sufficient individual skills and quality available here, though. This is why I have no issue with his modified plan of looking for imports like AK9 or Ljujic to fill the gaps in our own on-field quality. Darije obviously knows what to expect from continental players with known pedigree (even if these are players from middling Euro leagues - they are just about the same or slightly better than Phoenix level). Conversely, he seems to have understood that you can take onboard promising younger Kiwi players and then coach them in a team setting to develop further. At least this is my conclusion from his interest in Sarpreet Singh, in Monty Patterson, in Alex Rufer and in Libby Cacace. This might be the same reason he gives Ridenton plenty of time on the field, despite the occasional errors as expected. We should not be expecting errors from Rossi, Paracki or from Dura; they are supposed to be the reliable ones.
I may be completely wrong on this next point, and will be happy to hear your contrarian views. However, I reckon it is entirely possible that Ernie Merrick did not have this "alternative" point of reference that Kalezic has (= continental Europe coaching), since Ernie spent most of his career in Victoria, with the only change his sojourn in Sth East Asia after he was sacked by Victory. Ernie can, in my opinion, succeed with almost any club in Australia, because he is a talented Australian coach and knows how to get the best out the mentality, physicality, skills and money available there. But WPX is not a club like any other A-League club due to many reasons that we can discuss elsewhere. And possibly that is why Ernie was in the end unable to succeed at Nix. His common point of reference were Australian players, but he simply could not get enough of these of good quality to come here from other Australian clubs. Kosta and Vidosic did not come here under his reign but much later (unsuccessfully). And Ernie could not easily recruit players from outside his own frame of reference, although he could more or less accommodate those he already had (like Bonevacia). He is now able to get the best out of reasonable quality Aussie players at Newcastle Jets, including the visa players already there (because they had to fit into a specific culture), but could not get that from the WPX team, for many reasons.
If the above sounds confusing, let me rephrase it. Ernie was probably confident he could do well here after Herbert resigned, because he did not think we were a very different kettle of fish than say CCM or Newcastle. With time, this proved his undoing, as it took him a while to realise we were different. In contrast, I think Darije was baffled by the quality and culture he has found here at WPX early on, despite his previous contacts with the club. This is why he has tried many different things that made people question if he knew what he was doing. I think he wanted to try out different things with the personnel he already had. Since then, he decided to bring a few decent quality Balkan players to the Nix simply to provide a clear yardstick of good performance, by his own standards. Players like Paracki, AK9, Ljulic are at the quality level of Krishna or Burns, so that sets the level. Some local players like Doyle or Ridenton also seem able to aim for that level of quality. The other Kiwi and Aussie players now in the team, like Parkhouse or Galloway, will have a clear standard to aim for their own game, or adapt, or be progressively rotated out. Others like Fox or Mullen can clearly offer more with time, or are able to adapt to what the gaffer wants.
If this is the plan, and if it works, then the younger promising Kiwi guys will also be developing long-term alongside better players. And this is not a plan you can achieve this season. This would only work over several seasons, and I for one wish Kalezic patience, resolve and stamina, since we also need a committed decent quality coach to see us through the licence extension stuff next time round.
You'd love the latest article then.......
From "Stuff "
Former coach John Kosmina wants Wellington Phoenix cut from A-League"I know that sounds harsh but when the A-League began, it worked. It was something that we needed, it added a bit of variety, it added a bit of colour.
"But now it's season after season after season where they look like they're going to do something and all of a sudden the wheels fall off badly."
Kosmina's comments have come in the wake of Wellington's 4-0 defeat to competition leaders Sydney on Friday night - a result that leaves them eight points off the top six.
"The fact is they're not really causing any threats to anyone, I think they're not really doing Australian football any favours," he said.
"Now I look at it from our development point of view: take Wellington out and put another Aussie team in, instead. It will benefit our game a lot more."
Although it is not the first time the Phoenix's place in the A-League has come under scrutiny from across the ditch, Kosmina may be motivated by the fact he coaches Brisbane City, a team currently pushing for inclusion in the competition.
The axe is unlikely to fall any time soon. In 2016 the Phoenix were granted a four-year extension through to the end of the 2019-20 season, with two further three-year extensions.
Those periods are dependent on a number of factors, including improved broadcast rights from New Zealand and greater attendance.
- Stuff
WGTNPOM
And just where does he think they'll get another team from to replace The Phoenix?
Alderson404
I find it interesting that removing the Nix seems to be framed as necessary because of a zero-sum assumption - ie. the removal of the Nix enables the addition of another Aussie team. There is literally no reason why another Aussie team can't be added, thus expanding the competition rather than removing one to add one.
Phoenixashes
Matama
Visdak
Not the smartest comments ever, but then it is from a Aussie. Haven't heard a smart comment from an Aussie all my life. If the Phoenix are coming last then they should be kicked out the league. With that logic the bottom team should be kicked out. After what 10 seasons it will be down to 1 or 2 teams. Maybe the nrl needs to dump the bottle team from their next season as well.
Wellingtonian
it may be a NZ based team , but with how many Australian players? i think its at least keeping a few employed, that might not gets contracts there?
kgm47
Didn't Melbourne City beat these clowns 5 nil a couple of weeks ago.
Phoenixashes
No
jch78
Can't see them being around in the 2020-21 season.
matama
Smart To Have Requirements Around Attendance The Pitiful Crowd Numbers Prove That The Phoenix Are Wasting Everyone's Time Especially Their Own
rich6275
A bit rich coming from someone who has been dumped from every A league team he's coached
Phoenixashes
Kosmina has little or no credibility with anyone in football in Australia so why some numpties would give him some here is beyond me.
Roger Waihape
Yep them and the Silverferns and the Warriors..
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/10...
"Not content with just trying to rid the Phoenix of the schoolboy errors that leave them stuck at the bottom of the table, the coach has hinted at making major changes next season as he tries to mould the struggling club into an A-League force."
What "next season"?
I am a bit dubious about already talking up next season - why hasn't he been able to get results this year? What is he going to do differently next year that he can't do right now. I still want to see some more performances so I have some comfort that he can improve us by a huge amount (which is what will need to happen if we are going to get into the top half).
Normo's coming home
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/10...
"Not content with just trying to rid the Phoenix of the schoolboy errors that leave them stuck at the bottom of the table, the coach has hinted at making major changes next season as he tries to mould the struggling club into an A-League force."
What "next season"?
I am a bit dubious about already talking up next season - why hasn't he been able to get results this year? What is he going to do differently next year that he can't do right now. I still want to see some more performances so I have some comfort that he can improve us by a huge amount (which is what will need to happen if we are going to get into the top half).
simple, the current group of players cannot/will not play his way. he has to adjust his style to match another coaches signing's, given a large number of players are off contract end of this season I predict a bit of a clean out and new signings.
Queenslander 3x a year.
If Darije signs Moses Dyer, will this forum go fudging mental Y/N
If Darije signs Moses Dyer, will this forum go fudging mental Y/N
I hope we don't sign him. I went to watch the Eastern Suburbs vs Auckland City game, and Moses looked like one of the players who threw in the towel pretty early. Had a shark attitude from kick off, the type of player who would make a shark pass and blame it on another player for not getting to it. We don't need a(nother?) head-dropper in the team
yeah I watched Dyer play Hawkes Bay the other day and he was having a go at his fullback for very little when he himself was wasteful in the attacking third all game
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/10...
"Not content with just trying to rid the Phoenix of the schoolboy errors that leave them stuck at the bottom of the table, the coach has hinted at making major changes next season as he tries to mould the struggling club into an A-League force."
What "next season"?
I am a bit dubious about already talking up next season - why hasn't he been able to get results this year? What is he going to do differently next year that he can't do right now. I still want to see some more performances so I have some comfort that he can improve us by a huge amount (which is what will need to happen if we are going to get into the top half).
simple, the current group of players cannot/will not play his way. he has to adjust his style to match another coaches signing's, given a large number of players are off contract end of this season I predict a bit of a clean out and new signings.
That's an excuse as in the a-league with the Phoenix what are you expecting?
Normo's coming home
If we finish last he's gone.
No, he really is not.
All(but one coach) is gone if there team finish last by the start of the next season.
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
Absolute bollocks. Don't bring the Stuff commentators demeanour in here..
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
Absolute bollocks. Don't bring the Stuff commentators demeanour in here..
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
Absolute bollocks. Don't bring the Stuff commentators demeanour in here..
If we lose every game from now to the end of the season would he survive? I think he has done a great job "highlighting" how much needs to change (which is ultimately self-serving but anyway) but he's been in charge for nearly a season so why haven't we started to see these changes taking effect?
Normo's coming home
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
Absolute bollocks. Don't bring the Stuff commentators demeanour in here..
If we lose every game from now to the end of the season would he survive? I think he has done a great job "highlighting" how much needs to change (which is ultimately self-serving but anyway) but he's been in charge for nearly a season so why haven't we started to see these changes taking effect?
My personal view is because he doesn't have the cattle to do so. I'm far from a Darije apologist but I think he has shown enough to buy the time to implement his plan, his way, with his players. If after that our results are crap then c'est la vie - I'll join the #darijeout brigade..
Really tricky position to be in. I think he's obviously highlighted what he wants, and doesn't want, at the Club, on and off the field, and this season is pretty much a learning experience for him and a write-off for us.
The dilemma with giving him another season, although I think he probably needs one to see what he's capable of, is that it means we're putting all our eggs in that basket. It would at least provide some stability, which getting somebody else in won't. With the first review of the licence not that far away, I think next season is huge for us in terms of what might happen in the future.
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
Really tricky position to be in. I think he's obviously highlighted what he wants, and doesn't want, at the Club, on and off the field, and this season is pretty much a learning experience for him and a write-off for us.
The dilemma with giving him another season, although I think he probably needs one to see what he's capable of, is that it means we're putting all our eggs in that basket. It would at least provide some stability, which getting somebody else in won't. With the first review of the licence not that far away, I think next season is huge for us in terms of what might happen in the future.
That one decision could be the one that eventually kills the Nix
Really tricky position to be in. I think he's obviously highlighted what he wants, and doesn't want, at the Club, on and off the field, and this season is pretty much a learning experience for him and a write-off for us.
The dilemma with giving him another season, although I think he probably needs one to see what he's capable of, is that it means we're putting all our eggs in that basket. It would at least provide some stability, which getting somebody else in won't. With the first review of the licence not that far away, I think next season is huge for us in terms of what might happen in the future.
That one decision could be the one that eventually kills the Nix
I'd wager it was purely a commercial decision.
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
Absolute bollocks. Don't bring the Stuff commentators demeanour in here..
If we lose every game from now to the end of the season would he survive? I think he has done a great job "highlighting" how much needs to change (which is ultimately self-serving but anyway) but he's been in charge for nearly a season so why haven't we started to see these changes taking effect?
My personal view is because he doesn't have the cattle to do so. I'm far from a Darije apologist but I think he has shown enough to buy the time to implement his plan, his way, with his players. If after that our results are crap then c'est la vie - I'll join the #darijeout brigade..
Sure, the reality is that he's never going to have a side made up completely of "his" players so to do the job you have to be adaptable. I'm not saying dump him but I am also pretty keen to see some progress between now and the end of the season. The changes he wants to make should be starting to take effect now!
Normo's coming home
Really tricky position to be in. I think he's obviously highlighted what he wants, and doesn't want, at the Club, on and off the field, and this season is pretty much a learning experience for him and a write-off for us.
The dilemma with giving him another season, although I think he probably needs one to see what he's capable of, is that it means we're putting all our eggs in that basket. It would at least provide some stability, which getting somebody else in won't. With the first review of the licence not that far away, I think next season is huge for us in terms of what might happen in the future.
That one decision could be the one that eventually kills the Nix
I'd wager it was purely a commercial decision.
Really tricky position to be in. I think he's obviously highlighted what he wants, and doesn't want, at the Club, on and off the field, and this season is pretty much a learning experience for him and a write-off for us.
The dilemma with giving him another season, although I think he probably needs one to see what he's capable of, is that it means we're putting all our eggs in that basket. It would at least provide some stability, which getting somebody else in won't. With the first review of the licence not that far away, I think next season is huge for us in terms of what might happen in the future.
That one decision could be the one that eventually kills the Nix
I'd wager it was purely a commercial decision.
Really tricky position to be in. I think he's obviously highlighted what he wants, and doesn't want, at the Club, on and off the field, and this season is pretty much a learning experience for him and a write-off for us.
The dilemma with giving him another season, although I think he probably needs one to see what he's capable of, is that it means we're putting all our eggs in that basket. It would at least provide some stability, which getting somebody else in won't. With the first review of the licence not that far away, I think next season is huge for us in terms of what might happen in the future.
That one decision could be the one that eventually kills the Nix
I'd wager it was purely a commercial decision.
Though I'm pretty sure the reality is that Des and Greenie were no worse in terms of results than either Merrick was or Darije has been so far.
I bet if Des and Greenie hadn't been given a go there would be whining about WHY ARE WE WASTING MONEY ON EUROTRASH COACHES WHEN A GOOD HONEST COALFACE KIWI IS RIGHT HERE IN THE ORGANISATION.
We are at the point where nothing Welnix does ever on any subject will not be whinged about. The phone is off the hook, as Mike Moore used to say.
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
Absolute bollocks. Don't bring the Stuff commentators demeanour in here..
The manager next season Won't be Kalezic.
Really tricky position to be in. I think he's obviously highlighted what he wants, and doesn't want, at the Club, on and off the field, and this season is pretty much a learning experience for him and a write-off for us.
The dilemma with giving him another season, although I think he probably needs one to see what he's capable of, is that it means we're putting all our eggs in that basket. It would at least provide some stability, which getting somebody else in won't. With the first review of the licence not that far away, I think next season is huge for us in terms of what might happen in the future.
That one decision could be the one that eventually kills the Nix
I'd wager it was purely a commercial decision.
Though I'm pretty sure the reality is that Des and Greenie were no worse in terms of results than either Merrick was or Darije has been so far.
I think you will find I said it was a silly idea at the time and when Darije was appointed and it was announced they had decided against appointing him mud season was "to give D&G a go" I said that was a fudgeing Bashark mental decision
Really tricky position to be in. I think he's obviously highlighted what he wants, and doesn't want, at the Club, on and off the field, and this season is pretty much a learning experience for him and a write-off for us.
The dilemma with giving him another season, although I think he probably needs one to see what he's capable of, is that it means we're putting all our eggs in that basket. It would at least provide some stability, which getting somebody else in won't. With the first review of the licence not that far away, I think next season is huge for us in terms of what might happen in the future.
That one decision could be the one that eventually kills the Nix
I'd wager it was purely a commercial decision.
Though I'm pretty sure the reality is that Des and Greenie were no worse in terms of results than either Merrick was or Darije has been so far.
I think you will find I said it was a silly idea at the time and when Darije was appointed and it was announced they had decided against appointing him mud season was "to give D&G a go" I said that was a fudgeing Bashark mental decision
You're charming.
Kalezic regin was doomed from the start. Kalezic out, the stuff comnets want him gone.
If we finish last he's gone.
Absolute bollocks. Don't bring the Stuff commentators demeanour in here..
The manager next season Won't be Kalezic.
Grumpy old bastard alert
I used to think that Darije wouldn't last because he'd tire of the typical Phoenix shenanigans. He's lasted longer than I would have thought. I do not believe at all that Welnix will fire him. But will he quit before next season if shark keeps going like this (eg his best player sulking in his tent like Achilles with a fake injury?) I wouldn't bet against it.
I used to think that Darije wouldn't last because he'd tire of the typical Phoenix shenanigans. He's lasted longer than I would have thought. I do not believe at all that Welnix will fire him. But will he quit before next season if shark keeps going like this (eg his best player sulking in his tent like Achilles with a fake injury?) I wouldn't bet against it.
I also do not think he would be fired, because Phoenix coaches tend to leave rather than be pushed.
If all signs are correct, he will continue trying to stamp his mark on this leaky boat, and either sail to the port with it, or sink trying.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
I used to think that Darije wouldn't last because he'd tire of the typical Phoenix shenanigans. He's lasted longer than I would have thought. I do not believe at all that Welnix will fire him. But will he quit before next season if shark keeps going like this (eg his best player sulking in his tent like Achilles with a fake injury?) I wouldn't bet against it.
I also do not think he would be fired, because Phoenix coaches tend to leave rather than be pushed.
If all signs are correct, he will continue trying to stamp his mark on this leaky boat, and either sail to the port with it, or sink trying.
Despite setting up defensively to hit teams on the counter we have shipped as many goals as ever while scoring has become a rare commodity.
Sure , he may not have all the cattle he would pick (practically no coach ever does) but if we could see visible signs of an improvement or a definite style (ie when Ange P took over at the Roar). After 2/3rd if a season I am concerned we ate not really seeing an improvement in how is plan is being implemented
This topic is locked.
