How's this helping NZ football?

Pretty sure it was a timing isue. The Club World Champs finished the day after the Halberg noms were announced I think. Interetsing if they get a nom fo next year it if is the case.

Aussie = playing for an australian team. Kiwi = playing for wellington. Theyre all adopted kiwis when they come to play here

Bluemagic, truth and fact are that very few nz-based players have the technical skills and touches that can match players like Ifill, Caceres, Greenacre, Dadi, Diego etc. You field nz based palyers in Phoenix, you lose. When you lose, that is the end of Phoenix. We really need to examine very clearly why NZ based players lack the necessary football skills? Coaching personnel or coaching structure or over-dominnace by rugby? Terry, insist on Wellington Phoenix winning and leave the less than cable palyers at home so they can learn their basic skills and improve. Perhaps those yousgetsr shoudl elave Phoenix and play local leagues.

I think,if there is 2 players of exactly the same ability etc,one is kiwi and one australian,the phoenix would pick the kiwi. This is the advantage as at other A league clubs the kiwi would be a foreigner,so theyd pick the aussie. That and the interest in football that is being generated by having a proffesional team in the country,and something for young players to aspire to,and something for players in the NZFC to improve and trial for (the NZFC players constantly being scouted and trialled in training and practice games here,some have made the grade,some havent)

His point is that it is the Phoenix's fault that Auckland still only got 500 along despite being the '5th best team in the world'.

ah,completely ignoring the fact theyve always got 500 along before the phoenix existed then

So do many Auckland City fans.  After all most of them were the 600 that were around by the end of the Kingz and the Knights. Hard News2010-01-12 14:24:37

Yeah,good to know its just a minority that is like bluemagic/happyted. One does have to be careful to not say "all ACFC fans are like this" because that clearly isnt the case.

Actually that sounds like AW tactics '09!

how good would it be for the phoenix to start up a youth academy in wellington.. not sure how these things work but surely would be a good idea

That was the plan with the proposal for the reserves/youth to play in the NZFC.

Players choose to make the effort to get picked.  Just look at Siggy.  Took 3 months to get "with the programme" but has excelled when chance arose.  I have never been a big fan of imports at any level.  Take Wai United for example.  Heaps of imports, but a spectacle to watch.  The same goes for the Phoenix.  I back both teams 100% for the flair and spectacle.  Nothing like watching a great game of football, with good players.  Better than watching a group of kiwi's playing without results and crashing out i.e Kings/knights

In case you havnt noticed, NZ football (up until about now) has been incredibly under resourced and has heavily relied on the initiative and willingness of players to push themselves, play to the best of their abilities and push their own name in football, because we havnt been able to offer nationwide scouting, trialling, coaching and all the rest to the extent of other clubs in other countries.

And there are a tonne of average players out there who once made a NZ age group squad, and have lived in the shadow of that for their entire football career just because they were known to be good once upon a time. Yet other 'unknown' yet skillful players who develop later down the line miss out. But yes, maybe it is time to start investing? I think so.

As for the EPL, its the most lucrative sports competition in the world (fact) so its going to attract some of the biggest names, biggest audiences and big bucks. And with the big bucks comes even bigger names, bigger audiences and so forth... But yes, when this happens the local game can fall behind, which is a concern that has been raised by prominant british football personalities.

I would love to see after the A-League season a  playoff...home and away. Wellington Phoenix vs Auckland(5th best club in the world) City.  You would sell some seats for thoses game. It could become a regular end of season game. The Nix vs the NZF champion.Sort of like a local derby.

You run in to problems with the NZFC still running two months after the end of the A-League regular season and things like that so there isn't an obvious window for it.  I'd also suggest you in fact wouldn't sell many seats.  If people were interested then NZFC sides wouldn't struggle to get 500 people to matches.

Remember also that the equivalent game was played last season and the Phoenix reserves put 7 goals past Waitakere.

Can't claim it as my own.  Actually a line Feverish used to bait CNUT a while back.

Ah well. In the end, I would rather pay to watch a team of Ricki's selections, which I am happy to back a 'trillian' to beat ones picked by Bluemagic.

And there lies the problem, you have no (playing) reserve team and no academy. I'm all for the Phoenix reserves playing in the NZFC because at least the best of the local players would get a look in on a regular basis. I would also like to see the NZFC champs (usually Auckland City) play a home and away end-of-season fixture against the Phoenix, could be interesting. I don't know why NZ's so-called footy supporters won't turn out for NZFC games other than the die hard regulars? Most of you guys certainly aren't supporting Team Wellington, their last home game was barely 250. A glamour game like Phoenix vs Beckham gets over 30,000 so why aren't 15,000 turning out to Phoenix games. NZs football fans are a fickle lot. I'd love to see the Cake Tin packed for the Phoenix, just as I'd love to see 3,000 at City's compact little ground (we actually got that for one final against Hicksville United) for a mid-season game.

I'm sorry, but now you're just rambling.

Have to say you're jumping all over the place here.  Might pay to have a chat with the Auckland powers that be on why there isn't a Phoenix reserve team.  They have a better idea.  As for financial dark times, if every rumour about the financial collapse of the Phoenix was true they wouldn't have played one game, let alone 3 seasons worth.

As for expensive short term fix, that's not exactly what has gone on here.  The Phoenix are still under the cap and have not used a marquee or guest spot, unlike many rival sides.  They signed one additional import for the remainder of this season as a lift to help them make the play-offs, something that Wynton never managed - in no small part due to coaching masterstrokes like crossing from wide in to Arron Silva and Batrim Suri.

You're alright Wayward.  See you at the Bencher for a cider beforehand.  You can meet all those you are trolling.

How many 'Kiwi' players (let's define Kiwi in this case as 'born here or otherwise elligible for the AWs') are playing in A-League teams other than the Nix? scribbler2010-01-12 16:33:32

Plodder is not in the A-league, he's at Waitakere.

Maybe you mean Brockie.

...and forgot McGlinchey.

He might have just been trolling but I think this was a good thread topic by Bluemagic. If you ignore all the hysterical responses (about half of them!) there's a good discussion going on.

That's not what Bluemagic raised though. For me that would be an entirely different discussion, and one in which I could well take a different point of view than the one I have now.

Bluemagic, your inside knowledge of Knights was impressive but you have to remember that Wellington Phoenix is a differet kettle of fish in a different environment. If the NZFC and ACFC is so impressive, please enlighten us how many locally developed players do you have in the ACFC team? Low attendance for all NZFC teams perhaps tells us that spectators aren't that stupid afterall. Who wants to want to watch a low quality rugby-style football? Therein, Wellington Phoenix MUST play to win and play with the best players avalable, not fielding any locally based player in order to satisfy the  non-existent indigenous criterion.

I didn't notice when there were only three NZ players on the park against the Roar.

One thing that has not been mentioned is that we are not in the A-League by some God given right. We benefit Australian football by adding to TV rights and a larger market for sponsors, however I also think the arguement that we are developing football in the region as a whole by bringing on players like Crowther, Hearfield, Muscat etc is a relevant one in keeping the support of our brothers across the ditch. I know not many of you will care too much about developing Australian talent, my point is that we need to be an A-League franchise, not some outsider team.

My ideal would be to go even further and scout in Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia, and start becoming integrated with our future confederation sooner rather than later.

At the end of the day though, the Nix is a professional club, and whoever is going to win games and get bums on seats is who should be playing. Developing NZ football is supposed to be NZF's job.

I've seen plenty of Phoenix games (albeit on the tele) and a wide selection of NZFC games and I understand the difference in class but City at their best have been damned good at times. I have also seen some below standard A-league games. What our best local players need is to be able to train professionally and they can't do that in a local league that's forced to be essentially amateur. City have the resources now to be semi-professional but they can't because of O-League rules. There are tight restrictions on how much they can pay players. The Phoenix is the only NZ-based team that's allowed to be professional, so I do think there is a responsibility to give our best local talent that opportunity. I'm not talking about forced quotas or anything like that. The players, like Siggy, have to prove themselves on merit. But he's not a freak, just one who got a lucky break. I know the frustration of good players who would love the chance to show their stuff to the Phoenix and don't get a chance because the NZFC is basically not on Herbert's radar. It's not fair to judge them solely on their NZFC performances because they're forced to play in an amateur league. It's hard to hold a day job then go train three nights a week and turn in the same performance as a pro who trains every day and only plays football.

Who said that Auckland City was crap? Pretty much everyone here was very happy with the success they had in the UAE, and I can't recall anyone called them a bad side.

And like I said, you keep saying that Phoenix have ignored the NZFC, when in fact quite the opposite has been the case. Like I've said, people have come in and had the opportunity to impress the Phoenix from the NZFC for all 3 years of Phoenix's existance, and there is absolutely no indication that this will not continue to be the case in the future. So just relax.

If on the other hand, you expect Ricky to sign over 15 players from the NZFC just because they're New Zealanders, then that's not going to happen since there's simply not enough quality in the NZFC for that. But the best players will always get the opportunity, just like they have so far.

Haven't a few NZFC players had the opportunity to train and trial with the Nix ?

If they turn up for Fowler whenever he comes to NZ, they're his real fans.  As the man is a great pro and a once-great player, it's easy to see why people admire him.

We'll leave it to Ricki and the lads to win them over to WPFC with honey, rather than applying the vinegar.

This topic was debated last time Fowler was in town....

The only thing I am going to say in support of Blue Magic is the fact i like how many young players got game time at the Club World Cup, players with potential futures.

I'm sorry but at 26 Coombes isn't some new youngster who just come on the scene. He was an un-convincing Kingz player and a journeyman midfielder prone to red mist acts worthy of Feverish.

All he did was score one goal.