Wellington Phoenix Men

Marco - we are like so totally over you n

1798 replies · 17,953 views
about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinidane wrote:
bopman wrote:
2ndBest wrote:
HarryPeters wrote:
http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/197490,rojas-wanted-out-a-year-ago.aspx

Not convinced this is true.  last year he was injured/having surgery. Would a player really want to get out of a contract when he has no ability to show this ability to a potential new club?
Tony P making sh*t up now?
 
 
 i think you will find this was pre injury....I would never question Tony P's integrity.
 
Rodi spoke to me around early last year about trying to release Marco form his last year. Marco was injured at the time and I told Rodi to stick it out as I believed things would change. I think Marco was just frustrated at being injured and not playing.  Rodi was professional about it and Marco stayed. I don't make things up.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sir les wrote:
We dont have any (correct me if I am wrong) world class coaches working with youth players to take them to the next level.

�

There is my opinion, who wants to have a crack.


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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I know that dude. He's dodgy!

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sir les wrote:

From a non-footballing standpoint, he should stay because loyalty isn't dead in football, he got his chance thanks to the YF/Nix, and if he stays with us we will always cheer him on as he is our future.

From a career perspective, I think he will probably develop more as a footballer in a different club.
 
Ricki has done good things for NZ football, but I personally dont think he has the skill as a coach to develop younger players and take them to the next level. plus I still have question marks about his all round coaching ability.
 
I think this is basically a problem that holds NZ football back. We dont have any (correct me if I am wrong) world class coaches working with youth players to take them to the next level.
 
There is my opinion, who wants to have a crack.
 
 
That's a Halberg Award winning coach you're talking about there.
 
Seriously though, I've been around the coaching traps for a while and I'm increasingly of the view that we have romantic notions of what a world class coach is or does.
 
All coaches are a blend of technical, people management and political skills and success is really only found when the right person intersects with the right group of players in the right club environment.
 
Are there coaches that would give Marco "better" development?  Who knows.  The journey to becoming a top footballer is more a guided journey of self discovery than it is an exercise in taught skills and behaviours.
 
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El-Grap - you are a c nt.
 
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:

That's a Halberg Award winning coach you're talking about there.

�

Seriously though, I've been around the coaching traps for a while and I'm increasingly of the view that we have romantic notions of what a world class coach is or does.


I keep repeating that one of the issues here is - as Chris Rattue put it - "soccer (sic) identities" in this country have an animus against Ricki Herbert which seems to be not much more than professional envy / tall poppy syndrome / personal narks, and are always, as they say in politics, briefing against him.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The crux of the matter is that Melbs has a Spearmint Rhino and we don�t. The sooner we address this issue � the sooner we will see our players wanting to stay

Founder

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mermies not good enough for them?

I'm stunned.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
That's a Halberg Award winning coach you're talking about there.
 
Seriously though, I've been around the coaching traps for a while and I'm increasingly of the view that we have romantic notions of what a world class coach is or does.
 
All coaches are a blend of technical, people management and political skills and success is really only found when the right person intersects with the right group of players in the right club environment.
 
Are there coaches that would give Marco "better" development?  Who knows.  The journey to becoming a top footballer is more a guided journey of self discovery than it is an exercise in taught skills and behaviours.
 
Wow, that is both sensible and well put. Far too good for this forum.
 
"A guided journey of self discovery" - beautiful.
 

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
I'm just ducking for cover here...but...
 
JD: No of course not, I did that interview with Worthington after reading a whole lot of "let's hope Marco sustains a career-ending injury" etc etc on here.  I was trying to give some perspective.  I wish he hadn't chosen that particular quote, but I still stand by it.  Read the rest of the story for context.  I say that of course we won't support him playing for another team, but he's still a Kiwi lad so hate is a bit strong.
 
Term X: I think you'll find I did.
Woah. I'm sorry,but..."A whole lot of lets hope he sustains a career ending injury"
Ive read 2 posts like that. 2. out of about 800 posts
 
Thats the problem with you guys saying to calm down and be happy for him leaving to such a massive club like melbourne - you keep referring to one or two over the top posts and painting us all with that brush.
 
Likewise those taking the opportunity to use this to have yet another go at the club - you say something is going on behind the scenes and thats why players leave. Untrue. Players leave clubs all the time. Either tell us what is going on or admit that you know as much as we do - nothing.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
  
That's a Halberg Award winning coach you're talking about there.
 
Seriously though, I've been around the coaching traps for a while and I'm increasingly of the view that we have romantic notions of what a world class coach is or does.
 
All coaches are a blend of technical, people management and political skills and success is really only found when the right person intersects with the right group of players in the right club environment.
 
Are there coaches that would give Marco "better" development?  Who knows.  The journey to becoming a top footballer is more a guided journey of self discovery than it is an exercise in taught skills and behaviours.
 
For what it's worth, as someone else who has been involved in coaching for a fair old while, I think that's pretty much spot on. 

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
Smithy wrote:
I'm just ducking for cover here...but...
 
JD: No of course not, I did that interview with Worthington after reading a whole lot of "let's hope Marco sustains a career-ending injury" etc etc on here.  I was trying to give some perspective.  I wish he hadn't chosen that particular quote, but I still stand by it.  Read the rest of the story for context.  I say that of course we won't support him playing for another team, but he's still a Kiwi lad so hate is a bit strong.
 
Term X: I think you'll find I did.
Woah. I'm sorry,but..."A whole lot of lets hope he sustains a career ending injury"
Ive read 2 posts like that. 2. out of about 800 posts
 
Thats the problem with you guys saying to calm down and be happy for him leaving to such a massive club like melbourne - you keep referring to one or two over the top posts and painting us all with that brush.
 
Likewise those taking the opportunity to use this to have yet another go at the club - you say something is going on behind the scenes and thats why players leave. Untrue. Players leave clubs all the time. Either tell us what is going on or admit that you know as much as we do - nothing.
 
One post of that nature is too much for me.
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It is awful. But every club has at least one idiot.
 
2 posts out of 800+ is not cause to paint everybody with the same brush.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
Smithy wrote:
  
That's a Halberg Award winning coach you're talking about there.
 
Seriously though, I've been around the coaching traps for a while and I'm increasingly of the view that we have romantic notions of what a world class coach is or does.
 
All coaches are a blend of technical, people management and political skills and success is really only found when the right person intersects with the right group of players in the right club environment.
 
Are there coaches that would give Marco "better" development?  Who knows.  The journey to becoming a top footballer is more a guided journey of self discovery than it is an exercise in taught skills and behaviours.
 
For what it's worth, as someone else who has been involved in coaching for a fair old while, I think that's pretty much spot on. 
 
I think Ricki gets nowhere near enough credit for building a successful, tightly knit team in a challenging environment.
 
And, if you've ever seen him with a bunch of cones on the grass running a session you'll know that he knows what he's doing.
 
And, he has his UEFA Pro Licence, which doesn't make him a top coach automatically but is certainly evidence that he knows a bit about the game.
 
So, I think, he's top drawer.
 
In fact I wouldn't swap him for any other A League coach that I can think of, and some of them have come from much bigger leagues and football countries.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sack Ricki.
 
Why?
 
Um...we havent won the league yet...oh wateva he jst sux k thnx

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And all of this is off topic.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
It is awful. But every club has at least one idiot.
 
2 posts out of 800+ is not cause to paint everybody with the same brush.
True, and it's not as if the Tards are clean. Direct quote from their forums (only took a few seconds to find one) in the Mate thread...
 
after all the opportunities we have given him......he dogs us like this. Hope Muscat rethinks his retirement and signs on next year and breaks his legs in the derby.
rjmiller2011-03-01 12:08:32
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rjmiller wrote:
]True, and it's not as if the Tards are clean.]


Exactly. So even if the Tards are buying up all our good players because they can't develop their own, let's be better human beings than them.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
  
 
I think Ricki gets nowhere near enough credit for building a successful, tightly knit team in a challenging environment.
 
...
 
And, he has his UEFA Pro Licence, which doesn't make him a top coach automatically but is certainly evidence that he knows a bit about the game.
 
So, I think, he's top drawer.

Not commenting on all the Rojas stuff but regardless of how off-topic this is - 100% agree with the above.
 
(The main topic of this fred we'll have to disagree on some aspects) 
 
Edit:  The earlier post about the journey of self-discovery was very new agey and almost John Mitchell-esque!  Disturbingly I also agree with that (excuse me while I consult my crystals and pyramid).
 
 
Junior822011-03-01 12:19:56

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You'd rather we all go back to breaking Marcos legs?
 
In all seriousness,most of this is expected. A star player leaves to a rival club,the fans are going to be pissed off,especially given the circumstances as you said in that article (there are going to be differing views on loyalty). Its something that was clearly to be expected,and is in no way over the top.
 
Only 2 things have been bad.
* 2 people saying they wish he had his legs broken. I can't defend this other than to say i bet there are more than 2 idiots like that at most clubs. Still not excusable in any way however.
* People posting on his facebook. I don't know what was said on there,or how many posts he got. But i imagine the average age of those people to be around 12 years old.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
thats cool, we can agree to disagree.
 
and just to back it up, i am not just 'having a crack at Ricki'. My opinion was reinforced by several things he did during the season.
 
Everytime he plays greenacre up front by himself, I will shake my head and scream WWWHHHHYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (this actually happened a few times over the last couple of seasons)
 
also, apologies for going way off topic, but Marco's opinion of what development he would receive here compared with over in Oz I imagine will play a big part in his decision.
 
 
sir les2011-03-01 12:12:36
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
goldienz wrote:
2ndBest wrote:
zinidane wrote:
bopman wrote:
2ndBest wrote:
HarryPeters wrote:
http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/197490,rojas-wanted-out-a-year-ago.aspx


Not convinced this is true.  last year he was injured/having surgery. Would a player really want to get out of a contract when he has no ability to show this ability to a potential new club?

Tony P making sh*t up now?
 

 

 i think you will find this was pre injury....I would never question Tony P's integrity.


Just saying that not everything should be taken as gospel.  Just like Nix's orginal statement.


Wouldn't that have been around the same time as when Kosta took off to Brisbane?


Pretty sure Ange has said he tried to get marco too with Kosta. Guess he was still contracted and thats why they wanted out, a league - a league transfers have to be frees and only Kostas wqas up. Nix didnt want to release maybe.

SPeculatioon of course.

But yeah, easy on the leg breaking and fbin imo lol


raynes2011-03-01 12:25:07
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Junior82 wrote:
 ........Edit:  The earlier post about the journey of self-discovery was very new agey and almost John Mitchell-esque!  Disturbingly I also agree with that (excuse me while I consult my crystals and pyramid).
  
 
I may use that on my players at training tonight. Then watch the looks of total bewilderment on their faces afterwards 

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Shame the thread rules dont govern the use of unnecessary foul language....it is not a good look on potentially very public thread. 
 
Angst can be expressed without adjectives and descriptors..

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
While we will miss Marco, its probabaly the best for him. The Phoenix are going to continue to have this problem until.
 
Terry gets his finances sorted. Why would you stay with a club with this constantly hanging over your head.
 
The Phoenix need a team playing in the NZF leaque so that up and coming and injured players recovering can actually have game time. How many games did Marco get last year?
 
The Phoenix need to tie players into longer contracts. You end up with a risk you are carrying players, but also get to keep the good ones (or sell for a profit).
 
I will still be shouting for Marco and wishing him well. I hope the Yellow Fever don't give him a toohard reception. He still has given lots of NZ kids something to aim for.
 
 
 
 
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
cheifdan wrote:
While we will miss Marco, its probabaly the best for him. The Phoenix are going to continue to have this problem until.
�

Terry gets his finances sorted. Why would you stay with a club with this constantly hanging over your head.

�

The Phoenix need a team playing in the NZF leaque so that up and coming and injured players recovering can actually have game time. How many games did Marco get last year?

�

The Phoenix need to tie players into longer contracts. You end up with a risk you are carrying players, but also get to keep the good ones (or sell for a profit).

�

I will still be shouting for Marco and wishing him well. I hope the Yellow Fever don't give him a toohard reception. He still has given lots of NZ�kids something to aim for.

�

�

�

�


Ill still support him at whatever club not if he goes and plays for chile!


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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Marco will get the reception that supporters would give any player who has left the Club in the, somewhat strange (to say the least), way he has. As a profesional footballer, I'm sure he will expect it and won't be particularly affected by it.
 
If we get some decent signings in and things look good for next season, all the angst willl be fish and chip paper.
 

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
cheifdan wrote:
While we will miss Marco, its probabaly the best for him. The Phoenix are going to continue to have this problem until.
 
Terry gets his finances sorted. Why would you stay with a club with this constantly hanging over your head.
 
The Phoenix need a team playing in the NZF leaque so that up and coming and injured players recovering can actually have game time. How many games did Marco get last year?
 
The Phoenix need to tie players into longer contracts. You end up with a risk you are carrying players, but also get to keep the good ones (or sell for a profit).
 
I will still be shouting for Marco and wishing him well. I hope the Yellow Fever don't give him a toohard reception. He still has given lots of NZ kids something to aim for.

You are kidding right?
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
timmymadden wrote:

cheifdan wrote:
While we will miss Marco, its probabaly the best for him. The Phoenix are going to continue to have this problem until.
Terry gets his finances sorted. Why would you stay with a club with this constantly hanging over your head.]The Phoenix need a team playing in the NZF leaque so that up and coming and injured players recovering can actually have game time. How many games did Marco get last year?The Phoenix need to tie players into longer contracts. You end up with a risk you are carrying players, but also get to keep the good ones (or sell for a profit).I will still be shouting for Marco and wishing him well. I hope the Yellow Fever don't give him a toohard reception. He still has given lots of NZ�kids something to aim for.
You are kidding right?

Kinda already do with ASB Challenge. Only 8 games though, could do with at least twice as much as that.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The reality of the a-league salary cap is that clubs can't/won't pay transfer fees, so longer contracts only work for players you can sell out of league. And a rookie shot like Marco was, is never worth that sort of bet, so a 2 year deal was the best offer and option at the time.

Realistically, with his injury/recovery 12 months ago and his lack of ability to break into the first team prior to that, offering him a new deal at that time was not a feasible option either.
zonknz2011-03-01 12:46:36
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
timmymadden wrote:
cheifdan wrote:
While we will miss Marco, its probabaly the best for him. The Phoenix are going to continue to have this problem until.
 
Terry gets his finances sorted. Why would you stay with a club with this constantly hanging over your head.
 
The Phoenix need a team playing in the NZF leaque so that up and coming and injured players recovering can actually have game time. How many games did Marco get last year?
 
The Phoenix need to tie players into longer contracts. You end up with a risk you are carrying players, but also get to keep the good ones (or sell for a profit).
 
I will still be shouting for Marco and wishing him well. I hope the Yellow Fever don't give him a toohard reception. He still has given lots of NZ kids something to aim for.

You are kidding right?
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If you listen to Ricki he has been calling for this for a while. (was at a dinner where he raised it a few times).  This is how the ASB Challange came about as a bit of a stop gap measure. 
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zonknz wrote:
The reality of the a-league salary cap is that clubs can't/won't pay transfer fees, so longer contracts only work for players you can sell out of league. And a rookie shot like Marco was, is never worth that sort of bet.


A League clubs aren't allowed buy players from other A League clubs, in case you were alluding to that. Roar did sell Zullo, Oar and Sarota (15 appearances) to Utrecht for more than a million and Langerak was sold to Dortmund after less than a full season as Melbournes starting keeper. Leckie is supposedly off and has only had a season and half of first team games. History of European clubs taking a punt on HAL talent.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
sir les wrote:
We dont have any (correct me if I am wrong) world class coaches working with youth players to take them to the next level.

 

There is my opinion, who wants to have a crack.


Looks a bit retarded
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
cheifdan wrote:
If you listen to Ricki he has been calling for this for a while. (was at a dinner where he raised it a few times).  This is how the ASB Challange came about as a bit of a stop gap measure. 
 
It's kinda like this:
 
 
Not quite what you were looking for - but what you want, we can't provide.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
http://tvnz.co.nz/football-news/rojas-move-not-sealed-but-fans-vent-anger-4042603

Apologies if posted:

"An image of football hooligans burning cars with a caption that says "these are the scenes outside the Backbencher next time Rojas comes to town with his new teammates..." is one of the more extreme posts but some now fear he won't make himself available for the All Whites either."


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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Napier Phoenix wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
sir les wrote:
We dont have any (correct me if I am wrong) world class coaches working with youth players to take them to the next level.

 

There is my opinion, who wants to have a crack.


Looks a bit retarded
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
GI_Joe wrote:
http://tvnz.co.nz/football-news/rojas-move-not-sealed-but-fans-vent-anger-4042603

Apologies if posted:

"An image of football hooligans burning cars with a caption that says "these are the scenes outside the Backbencher next time Rojas comes to town with his new teammates..." is one of the more extreme posts but some now fear he won't make himself available for the All Whites either."

Cracked up that they posted the title of the thread.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tony P wrote:
Rodi spoke to me around early last year about trying to release Marco form his last year. Marco was injured at the time and I told Rodi to stick it out as I believed things would change. I think Marco was just frustrated at being injured and not playing.� Rodi was professional about it and Marco stayed. I don't make things up.


Good to see you're still lurking Tony.
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