they totally are - but I take everything he says with a grain of salt, plus he usually backs up his comments with some supporting evidence, R Ball on the other hand just spouts shark to support whatever bet the TAB are pushing.
Yep thoroughly sick of everyone wanting to have a crack. Yep get things arnt going as we all want but there sure as hell seems to be a concerted campaign by some in the media against not only Chief but the Phoenix. One News did a mini hatchet job on last nites news. Then you have some of the utter crap coming from some of our own fans makes you wonder why some of them even bother claiming to be fans.
We know there was a lot of crap that went down last season and Chief got isolated. We know that. Forget that. There’s a lot of ego and fragility in football. Chief’s a new gaffer. He’s made mistakes. Making cheap shots about last season shouldn’t get us excited.
Our questions in my opinion are- 1) do we still back him to start winning and finish well? Injuries, crap reffing and all.
2) does question 1 matter to the 3-4 thousand missing core fans?
Yep thoroughly sick of everyone wanting to have a crack. Yep get things arnt going as we all want but there sure as hell seems to be a concerted campaign by some in the media against not only Chief but the Phoenix. One News did a mini hatchet job on last nites news. Then you have some of the utter crap coming from some of our own fans makes you wonder why some of them even bother claiming to be fans.
We know there was a lot of crap that went down last season and Chief got isolated. We know that. Forget that. There’s a lot of ego and fragility in football. Chief’s a new gaffer. He’s made mistakes. Making cheap shots about last season shouldn’t get us excited.
Our questions in my opinion are- 1) do we still back him to start winning and finish well? Injuries, crap reffing and all.
2) does question 1 matter to the 3-4 thousand missing core fans?
3) if question 2 is no, who will bring them back?
My guess is, it’s easier to lose 3K fans, than gaining 3K. The damage is done. It will take years to go back to the already low 6K numbers.
My guess is, it’s easier to lose 3K fans, than gaining 3K. The damage is done. It will take years to go back to the already low 6K numbers.
I’ve heard of a poster in a gym that read “Muscle is hard to gain and easy to lose. Fat is easy to gain and hard to lose.” (You could replace muscle with money and fat with debt if that works better for you.)
So by that analogy supporters are like muscle, which seems rather appropriate.
I have no skin in this arguement but i think if a journalist makes a statement on public radio which in my opinion is potentially libel then they must feel quite confident of their source. Also as much as I love the Nix and Yellowfever I think there is a need for some Nix supporters to toughen up a bit. We used to enjoy complete dominance as the only pro team in NZ. We now have a serious rival. We now have serious competition on and off the field for the first time in NZ. There is no great conspiracy against us. What we have now is what happens in other leagues where you have fierce rivalries between clubs. Just stand up for your club and stop moaning and undermining what we have.
100%. If what has been said is false, then it is patently defamatory, and one would expect Chief (supported by the Club) to take legal action against the journalist and his employer. However if it is true then no such cause of action exists. Will watch on with interest....
Mr Ball - hardly a journalist, more radio shock jock, and much the same for his TV appearances. if what he has said is 100% false and the Nix team have heard it, then sure they may want to take him to court. if there is a small amount of fact hidden in his hyperbole then perhaps they wont.
Personally I suspect, despite hs shock jock content there may be some small facts in his claims - he's just blown them up to make it worthy of the "shock" factor.
I have no skin in this arguement but i think if a journalist makes a statement on public radio which in my opinion is potentially libel then they must feel quite confident of their source. Also as much as I love the Nix and Yellowfever I think there is a need for some Nix supporters to toughen up a bit. We used to enjoy complete dominance as the only pro team in NZ. We now have a serious rival. We now have serious competition on and off the field for the first time in NZ. There is no great conspiracy against us. What we have now is what happens in other leagues where you have fierce rivalries between clubs. Just stand up for your club and stop moaning and undermining what we have.
Is it just moaning though or people PO with the constant attacks on the Phoenix and their staff and management by the same people repeating similar stuff constantly. Agree some may be a bit sensetive and need to harden up. But surely its okay for others to counter the constant attacks by some in a forum that is supposedly for Phoenix fans.
100%. If what has been said is false, then it is patently defamatory, and one would expect Chief (supported by the Club) to take legal action against the journalist and his employer. However if it is true then no such cause of action exists. Will watch on with interest....
You’ve overlooked a third option: “Don’t feed the trolls.”
Right now this relative nobody is making claims that have caused a few ripples across the small number of people who care enough about football to follow it on social media or forums like these. Those ripples will dissipate and the only people who will remember are those who already dislike Chiefy: I very much doubt Ball’s “story” has flipped anyone’s position.
If the club set the lawyers on him then it will be all over mainstream sports media and everyone will read about it. They could win in court and it would still be an expensive own goal for the Phoenix brand. Is it really worth that?
You are right the ripples of this news will dissipate very quickly which the head honchos of the nix will want if there were PG’s and they paid out yearly salaries to staff. They won’t want their dirty laundry aired in public and definitely wouldn’t want it entering main stream media.
As we have been told by the director of football people have short memories
Those who were settled will not legally be able to talk publicly.
However if there were no PG’s then a very simple letter to Mr Ball demanding a public apology and retraction of the statement or legal action will be undertaken would be more then appropriate. That would protect their coach and would be the honourable thing to do by him.
No own goal scored and standing by someone who desperately needs it right now.
Once again however this will not happen and the Nix honchos will be banking on short memories and the issue slips away.
The witch hunt will be on however to see who in their organisation leaked this news
I'd take a stab in the dark and say that whoever passed this info to R Ball probably isnt in the Nix organisation anymore - more than likely a butt hurt stafer who was let go.
You are right the ripples of this news will dissipate very quickly which the head honchos of the nix will want if there were PG’s and they paid out yearly salaries to staff. They won’t want their dirty laundry aired in public and definitely wouldn’t want it entering main stream media.
As we have been told by the director of football people have short memories
Those who were settled will not legally be able to talk publicly.
However if there were no PG’s then a very simple letter to Mr Ball demanding a public apology and retraction of the statement or legal action will be undertaken would be more then appropriate. That would protect their coach and would be the honourable thing to do by him.
No own goal scored and standing by someone who desperately needs it right now.
Once again however this will not happen and the Nix honchos will be banking on short memories and the issue slips away.
The witch hunt will be on however to see who in their organisation leaked this news
Its not difficult....the Nix either paid out PG claims or they did not. If as alluded to by Prof, no PG claims were paid and Ball has taken a small fact and blown it up out of all proportion then there is no question that he has defamed Chief and maligned his reputation. If so a letter to Ball and his employer demanding an apology and or instituting legal action should be a given. Why would the Club and/or Chief not do this unless there is substance to the allegations.
I’m sure in Wellnix’s other businesses if the media said PG’s were settled by paying employees yearly salaries and they were not, they would at the very least be demanding an apology and retraction.
None of that crap matters. Apart from to AucklandP. It’s done. Frank Farina had a drink. Alex Ferguson threw a boot. Roy Keane vowed war in a bunch of people. Mourinho threw everyone else under the bus. Marinakis hired a DOF, sacked Nuno and Ange. This is football. It’s full of ego.
We know last season was toxic. We know everyone left. It happens in football. It’s a high pressure performance environment that’s very public if it goes wrong. Let that shark go. Deal with getting totally embarrassed by Newcastle yesterday another way.
We equally know we’ve had some improvement this season, but the last 6 games haven’t been close to good enough. That’s the key point to me. I thought we should have moved after Melbourne.
But if the team owners paid out last season as indicated, rehired Chief and still think he’s the guy, then let’s support the team. It’s not fans bringing up last season, it’s people wanting to tear the Nix down by talking old crap we knew, but pretending it’s something new.
It might satisfy some revenge on Chief for someone, but it also hurts the club and fans.
Its all the same shark from mostly the same people constantly bagging everything Phoenix on a site thats dedicated to the Phoenix any wonder people are pissed off with the same stuff being rehashed in different ways. If they arnt attacking Domey, its any of Chief, Gilly,Phoenix staff, Phoenix players, the way the club is run,crowds, complaing that Eze,James are wasted signings,most of the young guys are a wasted space. Seems like it goes on and on. Happily admit im unashamedly over optimistic but WTF im doing it on a site meant to be for fans of the Phoenix. Like most im not happy with how things have been going and have said as much on many occasions. The flat out denial of some that the shocking run of injuries and player availability have had an influence on performances just dosnt make sense. Doubt there are many teams would be able to perform consistently with the numbers that have been out. Again agree some of the decisions about our play style and it implementation just dont make sense but the way some of you continually bang on about it gets so friggen annoying. There must be another site somewhere you could all congregate to do your Phoenix bashing and leave this to us happily one eyed over optimistic unashamedly Phoenix fans.
When you totally clean out the back room, some staff have to be paid out total non-shock. Last year’s news. Relevant to last year’s questions, not this year’s. It’s sad if this is what excites you.
Encourage everyone to actually listen to the full Interview after the match- yes he said the defending was comical. Out of context that sounds like someone throwing his team Under the bus but in context he was fill Of praise for committment etc. And on balance Cheify conducted himself well and noted what need to be improved. I actually think he was very protective of the GK who is miles off ready for this league.
I dont think the tactics and selections are right but i dont agree hes throwing anyone under the bus. That said i think the Nix need a reset- perhaps not a Valkanis level one bit man im loving what Milligan is doing. Im just worried about the stale, numbers and data driven football, coming out at the Nix. Really agree with Griffith that we are over analysing data. Ie more Pipers less LKH/ Sheridan style players.
That’s not the case - these are employment personal grievances.
You do understand the difference don’t you?
And yes it’s taken a few months to come out.
And it wasn’t on the list from the club used at the end of last year to explain the large exodus - OE’s, etc which many on here discussed.
martinb
When you totally clean out the back room, some staff have to be paid out total non-shock. Last year’s news. Relevant to last year’s questions, not this year’s. It’s sad if this is what excites you.
PG's are basically about one person or another having to leave a job under not so ideal cirumstances and they feel it was unfair. so either a person left because of a toxic relationship and felt it was their only option or a restructure took place and the correct process wasnt followed, ie consultation etc Happens all the time, nothing abnormal
It’s much more specific information on the culture of the club in the last twelve months.
It's not "much more specific information". It's hearsay and allegation.
No half decent Comms/PR advisor will encourage any entity to engage with this sort of junk. It's just feeding the trolls. A waste of time and money and bringing attention to something that likely is half baked or complete fabrication or, if true is likely subject to constraints on making any statement by all parties involved and best left to quietly die of old age and the world moving on to newer, better stories.
exactly, engaging with R Ball and his lapdog Goran simoply feeds their self-inflated egos and encourages them to carry on nothing more than a hype dog for AFC.
Encourage everyone to actually listen to the full Interview after the match- yes he said the defending was comical. Out of context that sounds like someone throwing his team Under the bus but in context he was fill Of praise for committment etc. And on balance Cheify conducted himself well and noted what need to be improved. I actually think he was very protective of the GK who is miles off ready for this league.
I dont think the tactics and selections are right but i dont agree hes throwing anyone under the bus. That said i think the Nix need a reset- perhaps not a Valkanis level one bit man im loving what Milligan is doing. Im juat worried about the stale, numbers and data driven football, coming out at the Nix. Really agree sith Griffith that we are over analysing data. Ie more Pipers less LKH/ Sheridan style players.
How dare you suggest some of the trolls arnt telling the whole story to make their stories seem more believable. Dosnt sound as good if they cant say Chief has thrown his players under the bus.
You got be negative about Dome thread all to yourself.
Are you a PR hack or a lawyer? I wonder how you’d like to be publicly judged by your worst mistake in your toughest year? Particularly having it misrepresented.
We know there was a toxic environment and people left. If there were existing contracts, mutual terminations require negotiations. The owners backed Chief after these negotiations were finished, albeit on a shorter leash.
PGs often come from inexperienced management misunderstanding rights or procedures, or from a break down in employment relationships which were based on previously good personal relationships, and things aren’t always well defined. It’s an irritating, emotionally exhausting procedure no one wants to voluntarily be involved in. Often both sides feel betrayed, and often there’s no particular malign actor, but differing points of view.
And in this case there were no PGs, it is alleged the threat of them were part of negotiations. This is last year’s baggage and last year’s negotiation.
There certainly are bad actors bringing it up at this time and making it out to be a bigger deal than it is. Especially given a host of bad faith we’ve seen across country of late.
100%. If what has been said is false, then it is patently defamatory, and one would expect Chief (supported by the Club) to take legal action against the journalist and his employer. However if it is true then no such cause of action exists. Will watch on with interest....
When has a NZ sports team ever taken legal action against a journo/radio host?
It just doesn't happen. And how would you even prove what Ball said to be 100% wrong. Subpoena all the staff who have left, to appear in a NZ court room?? And supposedly all of those ex staff have now left NZ?
Even if Ball has it 100% wrong, the Phoenix have enough issues going on, to bother wasting energy, time & money suing a shock jock mid football season.
i'm not sure how many here have regularly listened to riccardo ball over the years. i certainly wouldn't label him as a 'shock jock'. more a keen football fan with energy and a sense of humor.
unlike most mainstream NZ media, which is so vanilla, he's willing to discuss sport in between the lines and raise interesting points.
of course people are welcome to be offended by him. personally. i'm interested in the points he has raised.
have listened to him quite a bit, just look at the company he keeps on his SENZ breakfast show, Izz Dagg and the biggest hype merchant of them all Scotty Stevenson - none of them are what I would call quality journos. Simply presenters/hosts with opinions who have a license to say what they want when they want. Add to that list Dan McHardy.
exactly, engaging with R Ball and his lapdog Goran simoply feeds their self-inflated egos and encourages them to carry on nothing more than a hype dog for AFC.
exactly, engaging with R Ball and his lapdog Goran simoply feeds their self-inflated egos and encourages them to carry on nothing more than a hype dog for AFC.
I thought Goran was a Nix fan?
Was being the key word here, just eed to watch Ball and he in their tAB chats and he's clearly changed his stripes.
exactly, engaging with R Ball and his lapdog Goran simoply feeds their self-inflated egos and encourages them to carry on nothing more than a hype dog for AFC.
I thought Goran was a Nix fan?
Was being the key word here, just eed to watch Ball and he in their tAB chats and he's clearly changed his stripes.
Was a time when Riccardo used to come to Nix games as well in fact pretty sure he also was on one of the early 12 Pubs of Lockhead. Has happen over the years there have have been plenty that have come and gone through the revolving doors. Just gotta wait for the day they want to jump aboard again i have no doubts it will happen.
There seems to be two trains of thought in this thread:
1. "Ball is lying": In which case Dome/Phoenix should be immediately on the blower to Entain's CEO (who I understand ultimately own SportNation) and telling them to pull his head in. If Ball is actually lying, Dome will have a lot of leverage even if it's just a closed doors conversation.
2. "Ball is lying but even if he isn't it doesn't matter": PG's in New Zealand average around $25k and what's been implied is significantly higher than that. Considering most people's standards here (e.g., it was great to see commenters quickly callout a bit of sexism aimed at the lino in the recent match thread), palming it off as "just old fashioned sports blokes doing sport things" is extremely hypocritical.
Either way, my overarching feeling of the whole situation is that once again, on multiple layers, the club has dropped the ball on.
Maybe he's fabricating some stuff maybe he's not. I'd go with the safer bet that somone with an axe to grind has whispered in his ear about some buyouts of contracts - people asked to leave before they were fired or whatever the case maybe. It's largely a "nothing to see here" situation for the Nix, but Ball and his crew have done what they do and made a mountain from a molehill.
I imagine Foley and his croneys have nought out plenty of people form teir contracts over the years, and I bet you it'll happen many more times in both AFC and the Nix and other organisations, but it wont be discussed as much as whatever occurred last year.
Who gives a shark at the end of the day all this rubbish talk over a he said she said argument that supposedly happened last year. Personally couldnt care less we arnt ever going to find out the real story any time soon prefer just to let the haters hate.
