Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 1)
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"Phoenix till they lose"Back on topic...
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well I think we need to take this VERY seriously. And I hope that by raising some of these issues someone, somewhere who is in a position to actually help the club survive make take notice and start doing something...it worries me that everyone thinks that it is all fine. Clearly it is not! I think that we as supporters who know the club best and know the issues are in the best position to try and solve things - pretending there isn't an issue is the worst kind of support in my book.
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Sorry JD, I respect your right to have an opinion but you're talking crap here.
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First of all, everyone does not think "that it is all fine". We all understand the problems but some of us simply don't equate that with needing to get rid of Terry. To state that those of us who prefer to remain calm and not get depressed about the situation are "pretending there isn't an issue" and guilty of "the worst kind of support" is a bit high and mighty. I am well aware that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes (he had to sell them), but that doesn't mean he's dead yet.
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Second,�there is no direct relationship between WGA, Terry's other business interests and the Nix. You've been flogging the WGA loan to death but the Nix is a stand-alone business with its own revenues and costs. The WGA�situation is only relevant to the Nix if a) the Nix makes a loss and b) Terry can't come up with the shortfall. Of course Terry's financial situation is a concern but the viability of the Nix is not directly dependent on a loan (or sponsorship) from WGA. Personally I believe Terry is quite happy for the media (and others) to be distracted by the WGA story while he sets about the real work of restructuring his businesses.
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Third, given that he does have some financial issues I think it is very sensible that Terry has�held back on�recruitment so far. There is still three months to go until the start of the season which is�plenty of time to put a squad together especially when 14 core players are already signed. Again, it's not ideal but under the circumstances I don't think it's a huge problem either. Plus, when the club starts selling season tickets (rumoured to be next week) there will be an immediate cash injection of around $1m (well, over a couple of months anyway).
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And finally, you're wrong; the supporters do not know the club best, Terry does. If the Phoenix was 100 years old and Terry was some fly-by-night foreign owner then I might agree with you. But this is Terry's club and he knows it inside out. Sure the fans are an important part of the picture (and certainly shouldn't be taken for granted) but the idea that the fans, or some other as-yet-to-be-identified mystery saviour, are better placed than Terry to "solve things" is wishful thinking.
Great post
Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka
http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka
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My same source, who is reasonably connected into the commercial property market in NZ has said that Terry is effectively insolvent and has been for months and he can't quite understand how he has managed to keep his head abve water.[/QUOTE]
So two months ago he was insolvent but today he is only "close to insolvency". Well at least he seems to be moving in the right direction!
[QUOTE=james dean today]I don't believe the current situation is sustainable and I don't think without a cash injection, a restructure of Terry's business or a change in ownership we will get through the season.
If you talk to people in the property industry the general view is that
Terry does not have a business to restructure...i.e. he is close to
insolvency.
So two months ago he was insolvent but today he is only "close to insolvency". Well at least he seems to be moving in the right direction!
[QUOTE=james dean today]I don't believe the current situation is sustainable and I don't think without a cash injection, a restructure of Terry's business or a change in ownership we will get through the season.
I'm also glad to see that you are now hedging your bets and moving your prediction of the Nix' imminent demise out to 'sometime during this season'. Again, at least we seem to be moving in the right direction.
Honestly , I think that some of the doom merchants now have so much invested in their own dire predictions that they would almost be glad to see the Nix go under so they could say "I told you so".
The thing that pisses me off the most is the possibility that all this angst from the doom merchants actually has a negative impact on the much-needed season ticket sales. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophesy, that really would be an example of "the worst kind of support".
Everybody just cheer the f**k up and buy a season ticket.
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If someone came forward with interest in buying and funding the nix,but couldn't as Terry wasn't budging and it looked like he was taking the nix down with him,then I'd have a problem.
But since terry is the only one we know of who is fighting to keep the nix going,and putting money into the club that he'd be better of putting elsewhere,you just have to cheer him on.
There is no other alternative.
We also don't know terrys business. Some signs are bad,but for all we know he could come out of it. We don't know anything for certain,nor can we do anything about it. So why bleat on about being doomed? Chill the f**k out. Tegal2011-07-05 23:18:50
But since terry is the only one we know of who is fighting to keep the nix going,and putting money into the club that he'd be better of putting elsewhere,you just have to cheer him on.
There is no other alternative.
We also don't know terrys business. Some signs are bad,but for all we know he could come out of it. We don't know anything for certain,nor can we do anything about it. So why bleat on about being doomed? Chill the f**k out. Tegal2011-07-05 23:18:50
Allegedly
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TX - I generally respect your postings here but you've chosen to ignore the complete substance of my reply. Close to insolvent, technically insolvent - the point is he needs cash from outside his group to survive
Suggesting I want the club to fail so that I look presient to people I don't know on internet message boards is a faintly ridiculous accusation.
Normo's coming home
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I'm with Terminator X on this. Yes we all need to buy a season ticket.
More importantly, its up to each of us to encourage, persuade, coerce, etc etc, by fair means or foul, more people than ever before to buy season tickets, to recruit for Ricki Herbert's Yellow Army.
Do we really believe Wellington is worthy of being called "The Home Of Football in NZ" or are we just full of it?
If the Nix is so important to us and we don't want the license going back to Aussie or, perish the thought, Auckland, we need to mobilise, people!
More importantly, its up to each of us to encourage, persuade, coerce, etc etc, by fair means or foul, more people than ever before to buy season tickets, to recruit for Ricki Herbert's Yellow Army.
Do we really believe Wellington is worthy of being called "The Home Of Football in NZ" or are we just full of it?
If the Nix is so important to us and we don't want the license going back to Aussie or, perish the thought, Auckland, we need to mobilise, people!
Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!
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But the main reason I had my little rant was because all this negative talk is self-reinforcing. So many of you seem to have convinced yourself that the Nix are DOOMED, that we will not finish or even perhaps start this A-League season, and you cherry-pick the evidence to confirm that. (Hingert turned us down, yes, but Pantelis and Downey signed up.) If you're "nervous" then please tell me exactly what could happen to make you less nervous. Because I think the answer is "nothing". Your faith in Terry and Nix management is gone for good (thanks again, Dave and Matt) and nothing will get it back. Am I right?
Look, we might go bust, and we might not. I refuse to start getting depressed until we do go bust because I don't like being depressed. This is not "denying reality", because I really think that you are deluded if you think whining on a fan forum can change that reality. I am looking at the glass half-full, or even quarter-full (isn't that what we are told is best for our mental health?) and saving my "getting depressed" for until after the licence gets yanked.
Look, we might go bust, and we might not. I refuse to start getting depressed until we do go bust because I don't like being depressed. This is not "denying reality", because I really think that you are deluded if you think whining on a fan forum can change that reality. I am looking at the glass half-full, or even quarter-full (isn't that what we are told is best for our mental health?) and saving my "getting depressed" for until after the licence gets yanked.
Oh God!!!!
Now I am really worried.....I am starting to agree with Doloras on a regular basis.
If all the facts were presented to us, if we could go through Terrys financial statements, if we could get all the participants to be open and available then we might be able to make a proper judgement on the fate of our club.......but we don't....so there is NO POINT in angsting about it.
The club is functioning, the team is training, they have recruited players and backroom staff, they have announced preseason games. All this negativity(mainly media) will probably damage the club further because it will almost certainly impact on season passes.
If the Nix fold then I will probably do something very violent and probably illegal to the cat....then I will then shave my head and spend the rest of my life in a monestry in a cold bleak faraway place(probably Palmerston North)
In the mean time life is too short to worry about something that may never happen.
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If someone came forward with interest in buying and funding the nix,but couldn't as Terry wasn't budging and it looked like he was taking the nix down with him,then I'd have a problem.
But since terry is the only one we know of who is fighting to keep the nix going,and putting money into the club that he'd be better of putting elsewhere,you just have to cheer him on.
There is no other alternative.
We also don't know terrys business. Some signs are bad,but for all we know he could come out of it. We don't know anything for certain,nor can we do anything about it. So why bleat on about being doomed? Chill the f**k out.
But since terry is the only one we know of who is fighting to keep the nix going,and putting money into the club that he'd be better of putting elsewhere,you just have to cheer him on.
There is no other alternative.
We also don't know terrys business. Some signs are bad,but for all we know he could come out of it. We don't know anything for certain,nor can we do anything about it. So why bleat on about being doomed? Chill the f**k out.
Again, it is a fact that there is a buyer out there, but terry will only sell half the club.
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I think you're confusing fact with rumour.
Let me help you out
fact
[fakt]
- noun 1.�something known to exist or to have happened 2.�something known to be true
Ru�mor
[roo-mer]
- noun 1.�unconfirmed but widely repeated story
Tegal2011-07-06 01:27:08
Let me help you out
fact
[fakt]
- noun 1.�something known to exist or to have happened 2.�something known to be true
Ru�mor
[roo-mer]
- noun 1.�unconfirmed but widely repeated story
Tegal2011-07-06 01:27:08
Allegedly
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You are confusing what you know as fact and what someone else knows as fact
Because you dont know them and their veracity, it is a rumour to you, but remains a fact to them
That maybe so, but for the majority of people on this site it is still a rumour. Thus we can't go making judgements about Terry based on it. If someone out there is willing to pay up, let them come forward, and lets see how the dice fall then. Because you dont know them and their veracity, it is a rumour to you, but remains a fact to them
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TX - I generally respect your postings here but you've chosen to ignore the complete substance of my reply. Close to insolvent, technically insolvent - the point is he needs cash from outside his group to survive[/QUOTE]
JD - when you start reading my posts properly I'll start reading yours!
We're talking about the Nix here and although Terry's overall business situation may be dire over the next couple of months the Nix are going to bank around $1m in season ticket sales. I'm not privy to the rest of their cashflow forecasts but there are probably other amounts coming in from sponsors and TV money also. Assuming they are not carrying any major debts at the moment (none are reported) then they may not even be putting the hand out to Terry until late in the season (if at all).
[QUOTE=james dean]Suggesting I want the club to fail so that I look presient to people I don't know on internet message boards is a faintly ridiculous accusation.
Well, I admit I'm taking the piss out of you slightly there. It's just that you (and others) have been predicting the imminent demise of the Nix for a while now and yet with every passing day that prediction's looking... well, faintly ridiculous?
PS. if it should all go tits up tomorrow and you even dare throw those words back in my face I swear I will get on a plane to London, find you, punch you in the face, and then feel really disgusted with myself!
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My same source, who is reasonably connected into the commercial property market in NZ has said that Terry is effectively insolvent and has been for months and he can't quite understand how he has managed to keep his head abve water.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=james dean today]If you talk to people in the property industry the general view is that Terry does not have a business to restructure...i.e. he is close to insolvency.
[QUOTE=james dean today]If you talk to people in the property industry the general view is that Terry does not have a business to restructure...i.e. he is close to insolvency.
So two months ago he was insolvent but today he is only "close to insolvency". Well at least he seems to be moving in the right direction!
Is JD's "source" related to the source who told Michael Brown from the Herald that Terry was "gone for all money" and would run out of wages money in two weeks... four weeks ago? Gossip is not reliable, especially about such a polarising figure as Our Greek Leader. Many people in the property business no doubt want Terry to go bust.
I have no freakin' clue about whether Terry's going to go broke or whether he's restructuring successfully. Generally, with intrepid sleuths such as Burgess and Nipples on the case, I assume that if there really is bad news for Terry on the way they will break it. They haven't, so I will chillax in the absence of evidence. (Burgess had that thing about Giltrap but I think he was reporting John Morrison rather than breaking a story himself.)
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Yeah kinda sick of all the high and mighty negative posts on here insinuating they have some great insight into the club and clearly know more than the FFA, and everyone else who are actually involved.
Public Forums are not a medium for actually solving these problems in any useful manner, only turning people off the phoenix by having a grade a whinge. Its all just bullsh*t, so be happy and support the club.
Public Forums are not a medium for actually solving these problems in any useful manner, only turning people off the phoenix by having a grade a whinge. Its all just bullsh*t, so be happy and support the club.
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lets be happy while our great club is here. if it does go bust, we will have plenty of time to be depressed then. lets live life in the now
Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka
http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka
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My same source, who is reasonably connected into the commercial property market in NZ has said that Terry is effectively insolvent and has been for months and he can't quite understand how he has managed to keep his head abve water.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=james dean today]If you talk to people in the property industry the general view is that Terry does not have a business to restructure...i.e. he is close to insolvency.
[QUOTE=james dean today]If you talk to people in the property industry the general view is that Terry does not have a business to restructure...i.e. he is close to insolvency.
So two months ago he was insolvent but today he is only "close to insolvency". Well at least he seems to be moving in the right direction!
Is JD's "source" related to the source who told Michael Brown from the Herald that Terry was "gone for all money" and would run out of wages money in two weeks... four weeks ago? Gossip is not reliable, especially about such a polarising figure as Our Greek Leader. Many people in the property business no doubt want Terry to go bust.
2. Agree, Terry has few friends in the property world. This guy however has no axe to grind, and very little interest in the Phoenix. Purely talking from a business perspective and market knowledge of Terry's business problems.
3. Until Terry ha sshown that he/ the club can fund a full squad of players and staff then I think we're still in a holding pattern.
Nothing really more to add on this topic right now so let's hope for some good signings and some good news
Normo's coming home
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Quite right Doloras.
Also, just to remind people, the new kit sponsor alone will be a significant deal, let alone season memberships, and any other new sponsorships and renewals we don't know about yet.
Perhaps those that know can clarify...under the existing FFA contracts with each club (confined within the salary cap) are payments made to cover player wages for instance? I also presume airline flights are at least subsidised by A League sponsor Qantas?
Also, just to remind people, the new kit sponsor alone will be a significant deal, let alone season memberships, and any other new sponsorships and renewals we don't know about yet.
Perhaps those that know can clarify...under the existing FFA contracts with each club (confined within the salary cap) are payments made to cover player wages for instance? I also presume airline flights are at least subsidised by A League sponsor Qantas?
Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!
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Quite right Doloras.
Perhaps those that know can clarify...under the existing FFA contracts with each club (confined within the salary cap) are payments made to cover player wages for instance? I also presume airline flights are at least subsidised by A League sponsor Qantas?
Perhaps those that know can clarify...under the existing FFA contracts with each club (confined within the salary cap) are payments made to cover player wages for instance? I also presume airline flights are at least subsidised by A League sponsor Qantas?
I'm not really "in the know" but I can answer that to some extent. Player wages are in normal circumstances in no way paid by the FFA. Clubs do receive funding from the FFA from TV rights etc but what they do with is their own choice. The junior reserve teams and womans teams are funded by the australian government and FFA and I suspect salaries are covered. There may also be some exceptions. Harry Kewell was apparently going to be subsidised to some extent which sounds crazy to me and am glad it didn't happen. I suspect that Qantas covers all the flights entirely, not sure about accomodation but I suspect the FFA covers that as well.
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Terry sells a couple of buildings to Dunajtschik. Good thing, right?
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Is he the one who fronted with the cash at the court hearing ??� Maybe a down payment on the buildings at the time.�
Yes on the first question - a person in the property area told me that that fronting with cash was a part of Dunajtschik's larger interest in some of Terry's properties, so it's quite possible that the two are linked.el grapadura2011-07-10 12:20:07
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Terry sells a couple of buildings to Dunajtschik. Good thing, right?
It can only be removing debt/making him more liquid. So yes, good thing. Only question would be whether he got a fair value for it given that he likely owed Dunajtschik in the first place, but you'd imagine so.
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Perhaps the saved mortgage payments on those properties will equal the wages of 9 more footballers and a coach or three.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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As each day goes by I am more and more confident that the Nix has a viable future. Terry is obviously been restructuring his business to make it leaner and meaner. Some how the bills are being paid.....is it completely by Terry? who knows....but I personally suspect that quite a lot is going on behind closed doors to keep the Nix up and running. I am sure that NZF and the FFA are having quite a lot of input. However its being done its great to see its happening out of the media spotlight......the only news I want to hear now is football news.
But it is what is going on football wise that gives me the most confidence. The recruiting, the preseason stuff etc all looks positive. You would hardly expect the club to be going through all this without a formal viable annual budget. Why would you bother if there was a possibility that the money is going to run out in 6 months.
I can't wait until the first game kicks off and we can cheer the lads out onto the field. At this point I would also like to see the Doom post front page apology saying "sorry Terry....we got it wrong", but I won't be holding my breath for that.
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selling the apartments and car park has zero to do with the nix....except that it frees Terry from some debt and if he's managed to come away with some cash then all the better for the nix. This can only be a positive for us.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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today's doompost
Disgusting! Burgess will spin anything to mean doom. I thought the fact that Terry couldn't sell any of his properties was supposed to mean doom?
And what's John Morrison's role in all this? Is he trying, in alliance with Burgess, to force Terry out of the Nix under the weight of bad publicity, so that people he likes (or has business dealings with) can take over?
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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today's doompost
Disgusting! Burgess will spin anything to mean doom. I thought the fact that Terry couldn't sell any of his properties was supposed to mean doom?
And what's John Morrison's role in all this? Is he trying, in alliance with Burgess, to force Terry out of the Nix under the weight of bad publicity, so that people he likes (or has business dealings with) can take over?
"Wellington city councillor John Morrison said the council supported Mr Serepisos as Phoenix owner but there was concern for the football club's future and he was "confident Wellingtonians would not stand idly by and lose the Phoenix from the city".
How's that trying to force Terry out? This is exactly the kind of response I want from our council. i.e. We support Terry while he's there, but are monitoring the situation and will step in to make sure that the club stays in Wgtn should anything go wrong. I'm not JM's biggest fan, but if he was doing nothing I'm sure he'd have just as many people going nuts about that.Is it not hypocritical for you to go on about people spinning stories based on no firm evidence, and then to go on on do exactly the same thing?
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Do you not notice a pattern? The last time JM was in the Doom Post - in a story also written by Burgess - it was the beat-up about Giltrap buying the Nix and moving them to Auckland. JM is spinning a line that the Nix are in peril and that we might need a saviour to keep them in Wellington.
No-one is "raising questions" about whether Terry selling a building means DOOM FOR THE NIX, except for Burgess and John Morrison, because they clearly have an interest in polluting Terry's public brand. It seems clear that JM and Burgess have a common interest in spreading stories to make the public lose confidence in Terry - JM because he wants the Nix under new management, and Burgess because he is after Terry personally.
Doloras2011-07-11 11:21:39
No-one is "raising questions" about whether Terry selling a building means DOOM FOR THE NIX, except for Burgess and John Morrison, because they clearly have an interest in polluting Terry's public brand. It seems clear that JM and Burgess have a common interest in spreading stories to make the public lose confidence in Terry - JM because he wants the Nix under new management, and Burgess because he is after Terry personally.
Doloras2011-07-11 11:21:39
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Do you not notice a pattern? The last time JM was in the Doom Post - in a story also written by Burgess - it was the beat-up about Giltrap buying the Nix and moving them to Auckland. JM is spinning a line that the Nix are in peril and that we might need a saviour to keep them in Wellington.
No-one is "raising questions" about whether Terry selling a building means DOOM FOR THE NIX, except for Burgess and John Morrison, because they clearly have an interest in polluting Terry's public brand. It seems clear that JM and Burgess have a common interest in spreading stories to make the public lose confidence in Terry - JM because he wants the Nix under new management, and Burgess because he is after Terry personally.
No-one is "raising questions" about whether Terry selling a building means DOOM FOR THE NIX, except for Burgess and John Morrison, because they clearly have an interest in polluting Terry's public brand. It seems clear that JM and Burgess have a common interest in spreading stories to make the public lose confidence in Terry - JM because he wants the Nix under new management, and Burgess because he is after Terry personally.
re JM - Where is your evidence for this Doloras ?
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Do you not notice a pattern? The last time JM was in the Doom Post - in a story also written by Burgess - it was the beat-up about Giltrap buying the Nix and moving them to Auckland. JM is spinning a line that the Nix are in peril and that we might need a saviour to keep them in Wellington.
No-one is "raising questions" about whether Terry selling a building means DOOM FOR THE NIX, except for Burgess and John Morrison, because they clearly have an interest in polluting Terry's public brand. It seems clear that JM and Burgess have a common interest in spreading stories to make the public lose confidence in Terry - JM because he wants the Nix under new management, and Burgess because he is after Terry personally.
No-one is "raising questions" about whether Terry selling a building means DOOM FOR THE NIX, except for Burgess and John Morrison, because they clearly have an interest in polluting Terry's public brand. It seems clear that JM and Burgess have a common interest in spreading stories to make the public lose confidence in Terry - JM because he wants the Nix under new management, and Burgess because he is after Terry personally.
Deloras, WHY does Morrison wants the Nix under new management?
The Nix have been great for Wellington. And Morrision is the capital's biggest cheerleader.
Doesn't add up!
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Clearly John Morrison wants the Nix under new management because he no longer trusts Terry. He's not different from about 15% of this forum in that regard. I am just pointing out the media strategy he's chosen to go about.
Burgess is out to get Terry, and he and the councillor are obviously working together to put FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) about Terry's capacity to keep the Nix running. It clearly works, based on the postings on this very forum. Those who doubt this might want to ask why Burgess and Morrison decided to put a negative spin on positive news about Terry'� finances.
Burgess is out to get Terry, and he and the councillor are obviously working together to put FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) about Terry's capacity to keep the Nix running. It clearly works, based on the postings on this very forum. Those who doubt this might want to ask why Burgess and Morrison decided to put a negative spin on positive news about Terry'� finances.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Doloras.
I understand by now that you believe that there is some grand conspiracy against TS and that he actually has no worries, and is just the subject of an elaborate smear campaign.
Most of those who disagree with this point of view (and I must point out not just because they've been duped by the fear mongering in the press) have now stopped bothering to go on about it after being called fear mongers (and told by you to f*ck off out of the forum).
There is nothing you have said that in any way links JM to a plot to oust Terry other than conjecture and speculation. So, in short, can you stop going on about your own elaborate theories as well unless it is backed up by some actual evidence.
Most of those who disagree with this point of view (and I must point out not just because they've been duped by the fear mongering in the press) have now stopped bothering to go on about it after being called fear mongers (and told by you to f*ck off out of the forum).
There is nothing you have said that in any way links JM to a plot to oust Terry other than conjecture and speculation. So, in short, can you stop going on about your own elaborate theories as well unless it is backed up by some actual evidence.
Ta.
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