Wellington Phoenix Men

Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 1)

3999 replies · 993,112 views Locked
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
I think the fact that these seven investors plus the wellington city council wanted to come in proves that ultimately the club has been a success. A lot of people are passionate about it and it adds a lot to the city. It's had a benefit to NZ football as well, which were near bankrupt themselves and are now 10 million in the black. The fact that office space has become oversupplied in the last 3 years has nothing to do with the club.
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Other than running out of money, what has Terry done wrong for the Phoenix? He picked up the license out of nowhere and made it possible to begin with. He engaged with the fans right from the get go even asking the public to name the club. He hired Tony P as CEO who was amazing in the position during his tenure, and really set our club apart from the others in the league in terms of fan engagement.  He brought big name clubs to Wellington to play the Phoenix, introducing many who were impassive to football itself to take a look and create massive goodwill. He negotiated a massive sponsorship deal with Sony, no small feat considering how poorly previous NZ clubs had done.
 
Things only started to go pear shaped when the economy dived and his cashflow dried up. Rose tinted glasses perhaps, but you can't deny that Terry did a whole lot more than throw money at the Phoenix over the last 4 years.
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
So your definition of a successful franchise is basically winning and make money? The only franchise that might come close to that in recent memory would be the LA Lakers... The Clippers make money but can't win a lick.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Does Arsenal count?? Don't answer that... it hurts too much....
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Agree with News. Need to differentiate between his business suceess/failure and the success he has acheived with the establishment and the ongoing solidity of the Nix team, fans and brand
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
"Creditors have also claimed possession of Serepisos' clothes and furniture."

So they've actually taken the shirt off his back too.. ouch!

Yellow Whever Whanganui

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Predictable responses from Doloras and News, interested in other views.
For me success is measured by what you set out to achieve. Apart from losing the licence I think Terry probably ticked every box he set out to from the start. It didn't end well for him but I can't recall him saying he aimed to make the phoenix self sustainable. He always stated that he was willing to lose money but I imagine he was okay with this happening as long as all his other goals for the club were being achieved.

I don't think it's for us to decide if he was successful or not - successful could be "kept pro football alive in nz" as he clearly did or "winning the league" which he didn't - but if he achieved what HE set out to, then IMO he was successful.

Fuck this stupid game

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Hard News wrote:
By what measure isn't he?
�

The club has been a success on and off the field, the list of what they have achieved in four years is astonishing and the impact on the New Zealand sporting landscape huge.

�

Sure the last 6 weeks haven't been superb but his legacy is four years not 6 weeks.
Where do I start?
�

1. He ran the club at a loss for the past 4 years [and so did most other owners but that doesn't make what he did a success because others are in the same boat.]

2. He had the A League license taken off him [I don't buy that he wasn't pushed].

3. He owes his head coach a substantial amount of money in wages.

4. He did not pay his tax or Kiwisaver contributions for his staff.

5. He apparently owes substantial debts relating to the running of the club.

6. He is now bankrupt.

�

I appreciate that some [you included] might find it hard to be objectivebecause of your emotional attachment,�but if you put that list against some other kind of business then it would also spell unsuccessful.

�

I concede that there have been some successes but at the end of the day, the final outcome speaks for itself doesn't it?


Nope.

First up a football club isn't solely a business.

1) 'Nix in the finals, one game away from GF
2) Running a popular professional football club in NZ
3) Establishing a reputable football brand in NZ
4) Giving Ricki and the lads jobs in the run up to the    
cup
5) Giving Marco and Kosta their starts
6) Any game at the ROF with the Yellow Fever...

sure there's more but I've got the flu so...I'll let someone else think of them...



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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
I'm guessing this is the end (probably rightly?) for the club shop, but i would like to know if there is a way for the nix to let us buy adshell posters once they 'retire'.
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Hard News wrote:
By what measure isn't he?
 
The club has been a success on and off the field, the list of what they have achieved in four years is astonishing and the impact on the New Zealand sporting landscape huge.
 
Sure the last 6 weeks haven't been superb but his legacy is four years not 6 weeks.
Where do I start?
 
1. He ran the club at a loss for the past 4 years [and so did most other owners but that doesn't make what he did a success because others are in the same boat.]
2. He had the A League license taken off him [I don't buy that he wasn't pushed].
3. He owes his head coach a substantial amount of money in wages.
4. He did not pay his tax or Kiwisaver contributions for his staff.
5. He apparently owes substantial debts relating to the running of the club.
6. He is now bankrupt.
 
I appreciate that some [you included] might find it hard to be objectivebecause of your emotional attachment, but if you put that list against some other kind of business then it would also spell unsuccessful.
 
I concede that there have been some successes but at the end of the day, the final outcome speaks for itself doesn't it?
 
 
 
I think you're confusing successful with profitable.
 
As News says, it's very much a question of how you measure "success".
 
As a person whose primary involvement in football is in coaching teenagers, I think Terry's been immensely successful, in terms of what he has done for the game in this country.
 
Financially, the numbers speak for themselves.  And certainly his other business ventures have been spectacularly unsuccesful.  
 
But for the game (which is my primary interest) he has done a massive amount and his legacy for soccer in this country is greater than that of any other single individual I can name except perhaps Wynton Rufer.
 
 
 
Smithy2011-09-26 13:46:25

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
I'm amazed at some of the obtuse postings.
 
Was Terry good for the Phoenix and football in NZ? Of course. To deny this is obtuse posturing. When no-one else was willing to take the chance, Terry created the Wellington Phoenix and put a good people in place to make it successful. We've got a good club playing professional football in NZ, providing a strong back-bone to the All Whites squad and breaking down barriers in the media. Unless you're deluded enough to want us to take-on and beat Barcelona every year, we are a storming success.
 
That said, Terry's time has passed. His contribution should never be forgotten, but now we have a new set of owners. Should Terry be on the new board? Absolutely not. Not unless the new guys think it will help. I can't see how it could create anything but problems. We need the new team to do their thing unhindered. We hope they can take the club forward, just as Terry did before them.
 
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Predictable responses from Doloras and News, interested in other views.


You seem to be mixing up successful owner with successful businessman. To me, the way he has run the Phoenix has been excellent, up to the point where his outside business 'issues' prevented him from being able to continue investing the necessary funds in the club.
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Agree with all the other posters who are defending Terry's contribution to the Nix.
 
Terry's only problem is that he ran out of money. Against just about any other criteria he's been a very successful owner surely?
 
The new owners should definitely be trying to tap into that experience whether formally or informally. Terry will have all sorts of interesting insights. Whether Terry wants to offer them is another matter.
 

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

I don�t think anyone is disputing whether or not the Phoenix were/are very important in the development/growth/sustainability of the game in NZ and Wellington � it obviously is. The discussion point was whether Terry was a successful owner or not.  As someone said on here, success is subjective but don�t tell me the evidence is so overwhelming that Terry was a successful businessman and there is no room to argue otherwise.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
A sad day for Terry

It does make you wonder if his previous role in the Phoenix gave him some armour plating against creditors whi did not want to be seen as the one who took the Phoenix down

I hope he recovers AucklandPhoenix2011-09-26 15:59:28

Auckland will rise once more

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
gotta feel for the guy. Hope we can see him in the fever zone soon


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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
TopLeft07 wrote:
Predictable responses from Doloras and News, interested in other views.
For me success is measured by what you set out to achieve. Apart from losing the licence I think Terry probably ticked every box he set out to from the start. It didn't end well for him but I can't recall him saying he aimed to make the phoenix self sustainable. He always stated that he was willing to lose money but I imagine he was okay with this happening as long as all his other goals for the club were being achieved.
 
Let's try to avoid re-writing history, shall we?
 
 
I usually don't go past a mild distaste for the man, but the hero-worship can get a bit sickening.  Serepisos is a braggart and funded the Phoenix - with other people's money - for the sake of his ego.  His #1 priority with the club was to be thought a big shot, "the savior of NZ football".  While there are a number of people here who would die just for the chance for their hides to be made into his luggage, history's verdict has yet to be read.
Stripes2011-09-26 16:12:36
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Stripes wrote:
Serepisos is a braggart and funded the Phoenix - with other people's money - for the sake of his ego.


Well, I'm glad he's been replaced by saintly geniuses who made their money by looking after kittens and puppies and have no egotistical motivations at all.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Stripes wrote:
Serepisos is a braggart and funded the Phoenix - with other people's money - for the sake of his ego.
I was under the impression it was largely his own money. The money he owes to banks and finance companies is largely made up of loans secured against assets. Loans made as business decisions. I'm sure there will be some creditors who dont get everything they are entitled to but in the most part they should come out nearly even. I don't really know the ins and outs of Terrys business but you are making this out to be a case like Hubbard blowing $1 billion investors money down the toilet, before being bailed by the government.
 
edit and by government I mean taxpayer.
rjmiller2011-09-26 16:29:35
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
I still wonder how the phoenix avoided making money the year we sold McKain, and got the world cup cash....
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
zonknz wrote:
I still wonder how the phoenix avoided making money the year we sold McKain, and got the world cup cash....
 
Probably all went straight to the IRD...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
Stripes wrote:
Serepisos is a braggart and funded the Phoenix - with other people's money - for the sake of his ego.


Well, I'm glad he's been replaced by saintly geniuses who made their money by looking after kittens and puppies and have no egotistical motivations at all.
 
Add logic to the list of things you've forgotten lately, then seek help.
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Stripes i never said he didn't say that, just that i didn't recall it. That's the first time I've seen that first article. Either way you're clearly cynical towards Terry and what he does regardless so you're no better than the hero worshippers who have a bias the other way.

Fuck this stupid game

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Good man Rob!

Don't go "giving away" too many of the additional home matches - if possible!

More home games at RoF would be a life-enhancing event for us in the Football Capital!!


zonknz wrote:
This is important:<span ="writeravatar"></span><div ="inlinedisplayname">Rob Morrison:�
<span id="txt254283338">To
be clear, over the next two years, we will not play more than one
regular season game per season as a "home game" away from Wellington. We
understand that the Hyundai A-League plan to expand the league giving
us more games per season and if that happens that will give us the
flexibility to look at playing more home games away. </span>

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Steve-O wrote:
zonknz wrote:
I still wonder how the phoenix avoided making money the year we sold McKain, and got the world cup cash....
 
Probably all went straight to the IRD...


I don't think any went that way....
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Stripes wrote:
TopLeft07 wrote:
Predictable responses from Doloras and News, interested in other views.
For me success is measured by what you set out to achieve. Apart from losing the licence I think Terry probably ticked every box he set out to from the start. It didn't end well for him but I can't recall him saying he aimed to make the phoenix self sustainable. He always stated that he was willing to lose money but I imagine he was okay with this happening as long as all his other goals for the club were being achieved.

�

Let's try to avoid re-writing history, shall we?

�


�

I usually don't go past a mild distaste for the man, but the hero-worship can get a bit sickening.��Serepisos is�a braggart and funded the Phoenix - with other people's money - for the sake of his ego.� His #1 priority with the club was to be thought a big shot, "the savior of NZ football".� While there are a number of people here who would die just for the chance for their hides to be made into his luggage, history's verdict has yet to be read.


I disagree with much of this, but I enjoy very much your turn of phrase and research skillz...

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
TopLeft07 wrote:
Predictable responses from Doloras and News, interested in other views.
For me success is measured by what you set out to achieve. Apart from losing the licence I think Terry probably ticked every box he set out to from the start. It didn't end well for him but I can't recall him saying he aimed to make the phoenix self sustainable. He always stated that he was willing to lose money but I imagine he was okay with this happening as long as all his other goals for the club were being achieved.

I don't think it's for us to decide if he was successful or not - successful could be "kept pro football alive in nz" as he clearly did or "winning the league" which he didn't - but if he achieved what HE set out to, then IMO he was successful.
Kumbaya
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Stripes wrote:
His #1 priority with the club was to be thought a big shot

Bullshit.

The Apprentice on the other hand though ...
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Honestly, I never take seriously comments of the ilk of "X person might have done a good thing, but only for their ego", because if there's a person who does anything for reasons other than their ego, it's the Dalai Lama. Egos are like opinions which are like assholes.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
Egos are like opinions which are like assholes.
 
So you're saying that the Fever is full of egos/opinions?  Or, by extension...

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
Egos are like opinions which are like assholes.
 
We can change them and are entitled to more than one?
 

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
Honestly, I never take seriously comments of the ilk of "X person might have done a good thing, but only for their ego", because if there's a person who does anything for reasons other than their ego, it's the Dalai Lama. Egos are like opinions which are like assholes.

Not according to the Chinese Government....

Nostalgia isnt what it used to be...........

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Junior82 wrote:
Doloras wrote:
Egos are like opinions which are like assholes.
 
We can change them and are entitled to more than one?
 

Ah yes there's that little nugget "entitlement"  The way some of us talk on here,
its obvious some have more than others.
RedGed2011-09-27 12:39:22

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Players meeting new owners thursday night. Will be interesting to see what comes out of that meeting.
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Running the Phoenix may not cost The Seven anything....

However Ernst & Young tax partner Jo Doolan said depending on how the consortium was structured it should be able to offset some of its losses on the Phoenix against other income.
 
If it was set up as a limited liability company that could be challenging. But there were other options, such as a look-through company. The new LTC structure allows the company in question to transfer its income and expenditure to its shareholders directly. The shareholder, not the company, is then responsible for paying tax on their share or they can utilise the LTC's losses.
 
BDO tax partner Iain Craig said other options were a joint venture or a limited liability partnership.  Commonly used overseas, limited partnerships were introduced in New Zealand in 2008 and allow investors to enjoy the benefits of limited liability protection but preserve the tax advantages of partnerships.
 
Craig said if the Welnix consortium was guaranteeing any debt it would need to charge a fee for doing so, if it wanted to claim a deduction on any potential losses. Otherwise investors can find themselves with a non-deductable capital loss when a guarantee gets called in. That's a trap that's cost many individuals.
 
Morrison said a structure that could be suitable for the consortium members to utilise tax losses might be more cumbersome and could hamper the group's longer-term plans to get more capital further down the track. That includes potentially following overseas models of offering part-ownership for fans.
 
FFS forget about fan capital. Take all the tax writeoffs you can get!!!
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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Now that the "Secret Seven" have been revealed can we refer to them as the "Justified Ancients of Welnix" for this point onwards?

C-Diddy2011-09-28 10:18:09

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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