Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

As I said before to Terminator, I've moved from the 'don't sack Ricki' to the 'don't care either way' camp.

I guess I think my first preference is to give Greenie the boot (Nice guys but..) and bring in 2 experienced assistants that are not close to the players and give it a bit of back and forth with Ricki. They would probably need to have stronger personalities so they can hold their own. I don't know Greenie at all or how the dynamic works but he does not strike me as a guy that would do that. I could very well be wrong. I almost get a feeling that Greenie is not contributing much and the academy are getting tanked and Gouldy is sticking to Paston. Again, just speculation and just my thoughts. Keep Gouldy as the keeping coach because Paston has been reasonable this year (sans distribution) and Moss has been injured so hard to fault Gould of that.

We have 11 out of 23 players off contract at the end of the season, incuding 3 foreign spots (although there seems to be confusion about whether Totori has an option or not).

That's more than enough scope to totally re-invent this squad, regardless of who the coach is.

Tend to agree. I wouldn't be too bothered either way, and have called for an assistant in the recent past, only to be ridiculed. 

My secret sauce has said that everyone is wrong except me. They also said you all have to send me $1000 or the nix will go under. 

I think Tegal has a Big Mac!

I think Paston has been reasonable this season. I blame him for a few of the goals we've conceeded, but I blame the 10 guys in front of him for a lot more.

As for the Ricki thing. 4 coaches have got the boot this season already (if my sums are right), anywhere else Ricki would have been shown the door by now. I don't think that he is entirely responsible for the mire we're in, but  do think he has to shoulder a lot of the blame. The mistakes he's made in the past, e.g. in team selections and being outwitted tactically, seem to being repeated too many times. I'm not sure if getting rid of him now is going to make a huge difference but I AM sure that keeping him there isn't going to make any difference whatseover.

You actually make a valid point about tactics and team formation. Against the Mariners it was a thrashing awaiting to happen (formation) and the way we continuously shape to play high against the tards (tactics) is bordering on negligence.

You sound surprised that I could make a valid point, JV!  That hurts!  :-)

I mean more in relation to the fact I never thought of that. Implying you are smarter than thou.

Lol. All good.

Ricki seems to be either tactically naive, and inflexible (or both), and outwitted by opposition coaches on an increasingly regular basis.

Me too. but there's a lack of reading comprehension out there - or at least "you don't agree with me, so you must be saying the opposite of what I am". It's like trying to explain to people that the outgoing Pope isn't actually a child molester - if you say that, then the people who hate the Pope think it means youlove the Pope and want to take away condoms from African people. (Sorry, still ticked off about another flamewar elsewhere.)

I didn't realise you were Catholic D.

 Ethnically Catholic. I no longer believe in the mythology, but they're still "my people" in the sense that I support Celtic over Rangers.

Some of you are saying we shouldnt sack Ricki now because it could disrupt any chance we have of finishing 6th, some are saying dont sack him during the off season because the new coach wont have time to replenish the squad, some are saying dont sack him next season because it could jeopardise us there too lol he's unsackable 

You could also reverse all that and say he is sackable. 

I agree with a lot of this. Ricki obviously has his strengths and weaknesses. The weaknesses have been well examined on this forum. He is strong however when he has a strong assistant. Look at the first couple of years when we came last - he had Turner and that didn't work. When he had Trani he came into his own. If the rumour mill about Elliot and Nelson is true he had strong assistants at the world cup where even his harshist critic can not argue with the results (world class). Next year with his all white's duties it is even more important that he has a gun assistant (or two for that matter). That should be Gareth's focus this off season along with giving Ricki and his assistants the resources to recruit wisely (i.e: travel to see these potential foreign signings live). I think right wing Morgan would call this analysis and the making of a business plan.

I have a genuine (not rhetorical) question for the posters here who don't think Ricki should go, either now or at the end of the season, and for those who say they don't care either way: under what circumstances would you definitely think he should go? Because I assume there would be some point where you would join the sack Ricki crowd. Or would you support him regardless of results and relationships with players, the board and the media? I honestly want to know peoples opinions on this.

Because I personally think some people in the past have been too quick to cry SACK RICKI but I do think that the time has come for him to go. I don't think he's solely to blame for the current situation but I do think he is definitely part of our issues. Players and the board are too, of course. But replacing the coach is much easier to do than replacing the players, and the board aren't going anywhere any time soon. 

The coach does multiple tasks, such as: 

1) player recruitment

2) player selection

3) player development (ie youngsters)

4) motivating players

5) deciding and implementing tactics

Now I think on points 1 and 3 I think the jury is out because you can argue about the limits the club's position has put on him in the last few years. On point 2 I'd say he's overly conservative, sticking with players who are underperforming, but that can be construed as a good thing for promoting stability and consistently. So 1-3 are neutral for me. However 4 and 5 are where I think he's failed recently, and after so long in the job I can't seem him turning either of them around so I think he should go. 

Ultimately in my eyes a coach is judged by onfield performances and ours have been too bad for too long to justify keeping him on IMHO.

Good post Barry. I'll step up.

If I'm I'm honest, I would suspect some people don't like change for the sake of it. Better the devil you know than the one you don't yes? I have a foot partially in that camp. Ricki can coach, he can produce sides that play winning football. The question is, can he do it next year with a revamped side (and perhaps a better assistant(s) ). I agree with what you say about motivation and tactics/selection.

I know it's easy to say 'there is no one else' but that's not quite true. More correctly is 'there is no one else that is a known quantity'. If you gave me a list of 5 coaches that were as good as Ricki and that were a known quantity, Ricki would be gone tomorrow to bring in a fresh perspective because it is needed at the moment (hence my reference to the assistants above). As it is, people do struggle to throw out names. Two that have come on the market AND are known quantities in Rod Stewart aka John Kosmina and Ian Ferguson, I wouldn't take. Does that mean there are not better coaches out there? No, but most of them are a step into the unknown which a little bit like tossing a piece of buttered toast into the air and hoping it does not land face down on the carpet. Can we afford to bring in someone new and HOPE he will do better than Ricki? That's one I can't answer.

I am open to being swayed to the sack Ricki crowd but then let's put up a candidate and compare. That's easier said than done I do agree but you've got to have a suitable replacement. I'm not saying there is not one, but more there is not a known one, which leads back to my opening couple of lines.

It's very easy to issue someone the death penalty but then you have to have absolute certainty in that decision. At the moment, I'm more in fear of that devil I don't know if I am honest.

I hate to labour a point BZ but when you say "should Ricki go?" do you mean go from the head coach role, or go from the club completely? If you mean go from the head coach role then I'd probably say "yes", unless something really outstanding happens in the next six weeks. If you mean go from the club completely then I'm not so sure. He still has a wealth of experience and there are a number of possibilities for how that could be put to good use. DoF? Part-time DoF? GM? Consultant? Board member? It really comes down to what Welnix want the back office to look like and whether they think Ricki has something they need.

Edit: I could even be swayed by JV's point about the assistants. It would need to be a big change but, for example, if the club announced tomorrow that they were bringing in Luciano Trani and Raul Blanco to work alongside Ricki next season I could probably live with something like that.

Of the season yes

Is that why Auckland don't have a team in the A-League any more? They can't take the bad with the good. Suck it up.

Fuck yeah.COYN!!!.Stripey till I die

Oh Wellington.......

 The more i read the more i just throw my arms and think im fucked if i have any idea what should be done.End of the day if he stays or goes unless Welnix show they are prepared to open the wallet and get us some DECENT players then it wont matter who the coach is.Sadly if they stick to this 3/5 year plan there may not be much left by the time we get there.

Very good post.  In the end there has to be some accountability.

 accountability or not, once we've blamed everyone and got rid of them for failing - players and/or coaches who is gfoing to stump up with the cash to replace them with better???

 an EPL manager knocked on our door ie on the forum and stated he wanted to coach the nix

Yes but to that end, some should not have been re-signed

 he's right some of the players are at fault in all our onfield dramas - I think there has been some fairly robust discussion on why theya re not up to the task - Totori being one, smith another.