Wellington Phoenix Men

Phoenix Transfer Speculation 2012/13

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:


Residency does not come� into the equation does it? I thought it was citizenship and a time period?


I think you are right. Residence and Citizenship are 2 different things and residence certainly does not make you a Kiwi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
...and he's mental.
 
 Totally agree
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion wrote:
rjmiller wrote:
goldienz wrote:
Without trying to kick the hornets nest: Was the fact we didn't have a youth team cost related, or 'rules' related (eg only Australian teams can have a youth team, or ACL specification) when it came to the A-League?

I really do hope next season we have a youth setup sorted.

Potentially both. The Australian government funds the youth league for the Australian teams, they are not going to include us in that. Even if we were prepared to pay the costs (which are probably quite high) the FFA may not really want that because of the increased logistical problems. We are not part of the FFA cup for instance.

However after seeing some of the youth league games I've changed my opinion and think it would actually be better to play against the ASB teams. The standard is probably higher, it would help develop NZ football, it would be cheaper, we get to scout for players which other teams can't get as easily and the logistics are easier. Hopefully NZ football can help organise this for next season.

There are a lot of benefits of having a team in the NYL, such as up to 4 first team players can drop down to get game time and it basically expands your squad from the HAL max of 23 to include your NYL squad as well, so you can promote youth during the season. It seems that there are a lot hoops to jump through to be able to do the same with players playing in different federations/amateur-pro stand down etc.

With GCU potentially gone next season there could be a spot in the NYL, if a 'Nix team was based in OZ, no extra costs for OZ NYL teams than currently, and FFA/Aus Govt maybe pay costs only for Australians in our NYL team (maybe average cost per NYL player over league) and we are happy with the costs of extra staff and maintaining team in OZ, could be an option...
We need to aim for a NYL team but if we cannot get one, a ASB Premiership team will do in the short term. Our youngest starting players are 26 and most are over 30, we need to develop replacements asap.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hey
How about coming down this way for the last home game.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
re Pav, as I'm in a good post-curry mood I'll limit myself to

... he has a knack for the unexpected
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
To be honest I don't mind Pav and I hope Alex Smith is kept for next season. Still on the fence about Dani Sanchez though, he hasn't offered much lately at all.

I guess it comes down to where we need to strengthen our squad and by adding good foreign players we have to get rid of our average ones.

Heard through the grapevine Jeremy Brockie has not been approached by the Phoenix (which i think is because it's against the rules) but Ricki has said "talk to me before you talk to anyone else"
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion wrote:
There are a lot of benefits of having a team in the NYL, such as up to 4 first team players can drop down to get game time and it basically expands your squad from the HAL max of 23 to include your NYL squad as well, so you can promote youth during the season. It seems that there are a lot hoops to jump through to be able to do the same with players playing in different federations/amateur-pro stand down etc.

With GCU potentially gone next season there could be a spot in the NYL, if a 'Nix team was based in OZ, no extra costs for OZ NYL teams than currently, and FFA/Aus Govt maybe pay costs only for Australians in our NYL team (maybe average cost per NYL player over league) and we are happy with the costs of extra staff and maintaining team in OZ, could be an option...
I actually thought it was 6 full squad players who could play. I'm not saying it isn't a big advantage to have this but I am reasonably confident the FFA would allow the same squad rules for the Phoenix to play in (or at least against) the ASB teams. You couldn't house the youth team in Aus because it is essential that they are here  to practice with the main squad each week. So you have all the flights and accomodation costs which the club would have to pay.  Plus those clubs are not going to want to send their youth teams into a different country every second week.
 
6 months ago I had a completely different opinion, I thought it was essential to have our young and future players playing in the most competitive competition. Then after watching a couple of games I realised the standard wasn't actually that high. Now it doesn't make any sense to me to push for it. Competing against ASB teams is the better option in almost regards as far as I am concerned.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:
To be honest I don't mind Pav and I hope Alex Smith is kept for next season. Still on the fence about Dani Sanchez though, he hasn't offered much lately at all.

I guess it comes down to where we need to strengthen our squad and by adding good foreign players we have to get rid of our average ones.

Heard through the grapevine Jeremy Brockie has not been approached by the Phoenix (which i think is because it's against the rules) but Ricki has said "talk to me before you talk to anyone else"
Last 6 months of a contract, you can talk to other clubs. There has already been a some transfers confirmed for next season (Brown, Birighitti & Taggart to the Jets, Redmayne to the Heart)
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/233692,gold-coast-uniteds-golden-generation.aspx

As someone pointed out earlier ..Golgol doesnt have ANY goals this season. Do we still want him?
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rjmiller wrote:
You do have to question whether Greenie is a good use of an import slot for next season though.


absolutely not.

 
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:
CARLOS Hernandez, Melbourne Victory's sole Johnny Warren medallist, could wear enemy colours next season.

Adelaide United and Sydney FC are two of three A-League clubs ready to pounce as Victory appears prepared to cut loose Kosta Rican ace Hernandez in a bid to make room in its salary cap to rebuild.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/soccer/melbourne-victory-preparing-to-lose-star-midfielder-carlos-hernandez/story-e6frfg8x-1226289834586

Could we be the 3rd? We have a marquee spot available, if we are allowed to spend some of the owners cash. Would mean we probably wouldn't be able to re-sign Dirty tho.
No thanks.


What is really comes down to is Ricki willing to play him (if signed) ahead of Brown?

Theres no way thats gonna happen.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I highly doubt we are the team after Hernandez. Overpaid, overweight, overrated. Judging by that I'd say he's wanted by Perth or Sydney.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rjmiller wrote:

Bullion wrote:
There are a lot of benefits of having a team in the NYL, such as up to 4 first team players can drop down to get game time and it basically expands your squad from the HAL max of 23 to include your NYL squad as well, so you can promote youth during the season. It seems that there are a lot hoops to jump through to be able to do the same with players playing in different federations/amateur-pro stand down etc.

With GCU potentially gone next season there could be a spot in the NYL, if a 'Nix team was based in OZ, no extra costs for OZ NYL teams than currently, and FFA/Aus Govt maybe pay costs only for Australians in our NYL team (maybe average cost per NYL player over league) and we are happy with the costs of extra staff and maintaining team in OZ, could be an option...

I actually thought it was 6 full squad players who could play. I'm not saying it isn't a big advantage to have this but I am reasonably�confident the FFA would allow the same squad rules for the Phoenix to play in (or at least against) the ASB teams. You couldn't house the youth team in Aus because it is essential that they are here� to practice with the main squad each week. So you have all the flights and accomodation costs which the club would have to pay.� Plus those clubs are not going to want to send their youth teams into a different country every second week.
�
6 months ago I had a completely different opinion, I thought it was essential to have our young and future players playing in the most competitive competition. Then after watching a couple of games I realised the standard wasn't actually that high. Now it doesn't make any sense to me to push for it. Competing against ASB teams is the better option in almost regards as far as I am concerned.

I think going the ASB route does allow the youth team to better integrate with the first team and costs would be lower, but it seems highly unlikely that first team players will be allowed to drop down to play or youth team players being promoted during the season.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It probably wouldn't be in the ASB championship but rather just play against the teams like they did 2 years ago. NZ football put up a couple of grand for the winning team in each case to try and make sure it was competitive. Our full squad players were able to play... when not injured.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
...and see, 8 games isn't enough.

That's why I think it has to be the NYL.  Avoids all the transfer and amateur vs professional implications as well as the risk to scholarship chances in the states.
 
Of course the cost is probably quadruple what the ASB Challange would be and I don't believe people will like that.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
...and see, 8 games isn't enough.
That's why I think it has to be the NYL.� Avoids all the transfer and amateur vs professional implications as well as the risk to scholarship chances in the states.

�

Of course the cost is probably quadruple what the ASB Challange would be and I don't believe people will like that.

Maybe a much improved TV deal will reduce the funding from Aus Govt on NYL and might increase the likelihood of a 'Nix team participating.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion wrote:
Hard News wrote:
...and see, 8 games isn't enough.
That's why I think it has to be the NYL.� Avoids all the transfer and amateur vs professional implications as well as the risk to scholarship chances in the states.

�

Of course the cost is probably quadruple what the ASB Challange would be and I don't believe people will like that.

Maybe a much improved TV deal will reduce the funding from Aus Govt on NYL and might increase the likelihood of a 'Nix team participating.


Was thinking along these lines. If there was some TV money thrown about with it, maybe a bit of coverage even, i think you'd find that's when our 'viewership' may get some decision in the matter as well.

Yellow Whever Whanganui

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/233692,gold-coast-uniteds-golden-generation.aspx

A bit extra on our reported interest in Mehbratu. I personally would be stoked if we signed him. Definitely a step up on Pavlova.... and we need an African!nzmanu2012-03-07 16:39:58
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We certainly need an African, as people like Djite, Danning and Traore seem to walk right through us although they suck against other competition.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
...and see, 8 games isn't enough.

That's why I think it has to be the NYL.  Avoids all the transfer and amateur vs professional implications as well as the risk to scholarship chances in the states.
 
Of course the cost is probably quadruple what the ASB Challange would be and I don't believe people will like that.
 
Well that's where we find out just how serious the Nix Nine* are about sorting this out don't we? Talk is cheap and all that.
 
I'm sure if they pushed it hard enough they could make a good case for the Nix being included in the Aussie NYL, especially if paying our own way. The rationale for keeping us out is weak as.
 
But yeah, cost is probably the main factor (I suspect that the previous Nix ownership might have actually hid behind the political excuse as a way of avoiding the extra cost. Or at least not been highly motivated to push it).
 
*I am going to keep referring to them as the Nix Nine out of respect to Lloyd M.
 

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nzmanu wrote:
http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/233692,gold-coast-uniteds-golden-generation.aspx

A bit extra on our reported interest in Mehbratu. I personally would be stoked if we signed him. Definitely a step up on Pavlova.... and we need an African!


Depend what your measurement is.  If it is goals scored this season, then the answer is no. 1194 minutes without a goal.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What we need is good players, regardless where they come from.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If he's cheap then OK. He hasn't been great as of yet but at least there's some potential. I think Pav's almost used up his potential.
I'd rather Halloran, Traore or Thwaite though.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
CloneMM wrote:
If he's cheap then OK. He hasn't been great as of yet but at least there's some potential. I think Pav's almost used up his potential.
I'd rather Halloran, Traore or Thwaite though.


Halloran has interest from overseas, as does Traore and Thwaite is wanted by Tards apparently.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mebrahtu reminds me of highly touted youngsters that came through a few years ago like Djite, Cernak, Williams and Danning who you keep waiting to improve but they never quite do.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
StopOut wrote:
Mebrahtu reminds me of highly touted youngsters�that came through a�few years ago like Djite, Cernak, Williams and Danning who you keep waiting to improve but they never quite do.


Djite always improves when he plays against the Phoenix.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A little different in that he didn't come through the systems. Famously he was spotted in a park by Miron and wasn't hyped as the next big thing (like every 15yo who ever wore boots in Australia).

Thwaite to Victory. At least the bloke with th Thwiate shirt can start wearing it again.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nzmanu wrote:
CloneMM wrote:
If he's cheap then OK. He hasn't been great as of yet but at least there's some potential. I think Pav's almost used up his potential.
I'd rather Halloran, Traore or Thwaite though.


Halloran has interest from overseas, as does Traore and Thwaite is wanted by Tards apparently.
He should be thinking about staying in A-League until he gets his citizenship. Unless you think you can make it big in Europe, an Aussie passport is handy thing to have so you can chase the money in Asia.
Ryan's Rovers2012-03-07 22:56:17
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
A little different in that he didn't come through the systems. Famously he was spotted in a park by Miron and wasn't hyped as the next big thing (like every 15yo who ever wore boots in Australia).

Thwaite to Victory. At least the bloke with th Thwiate shirt can start wearing it again.
 
Not sure about that. Ever since Mebrahtu stepped on the park Andy Harper's been squawking about what a massive talent he is. But hey who knows, he might be right for once.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
terminator_x wrote:
Hard News wrote:
...and see, 8 games isn't enough.

That's why I think it has to be the NYL.  Avoids all the transfer and amateur vs professional implications as well as the risk to scholarship chances in the states.
 
Of course the cost is probably quadruple what the ASB Challange would be and I don't believe people will like that.
 
Well that's where we find out just how serious the Nix Nine* are about sorting this out don't we? Talk is cheap and all that.
 
I'm sure if they pushed it hard enough they could make a good case for the Nix being included in the Aussie NYL, especially if paying our own way. The rationale for keeping us out is weak as.
 
But yeah, cost is probably the main factor (I suspect that the previous Nix ownership might have actually hid behind the political excuse as a way of avoiding the extra cost. Or at least not been highly motivated to push it).
 
*I am going to keep referring to them as the Nix Nine out of respect to Lloyd M.
 

 I wrote up a post in this thread suggesting the NYL is the way to go too last night, but deleted it prior to posting when I worked through the logistics, thinking to myself .." no way, that won't work!"
but,  here goes..

Advantages of playing in NYL
- No stand down period
-meaningful competition, more opportunities to play quality opposition.
-potentially more playing time for youth and reconditioning squad members.
-permanent base established in Australia for Youth team,sufficient to house all squads and staff with superior training facilities(!), accommodation and easy access to transport hubs.
-less downtime while away.
-opportunities to maximise those 2 week away spells with squads able to train together.
-stronger club, with talent nurtured through youth team and into senior team.
-opportunity for unified coaching strategy across both squads so that players moving between know what's required where ever they are playing.
Disadvantages of playing in NYL
-Cost, Cost and more Cost
-horrendous logistics- managing players and moving players between teams, challenge of maintaining training continuity through squads,  injury recovery and travel, etc
-administration challenges
-what about cost?
-duplication of facilities
-keeping FFA, NZFootball happy and onside.
-did I mention COST??
Challenges-
-getting FFA to agree in the first place...let alone AFC and FIFA!
-getting NZFootball to agree in the second place..then contributing for those NZ players who might benefit in the structure.

...a bridge too far,maybe?


  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Also confirms we haven't talked to Mebrahtu or any other new player.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/phoenix/6540828/Moss-looking-at-return-to-Phoenix

"While Paston might not be relishing the prospect, Moss would be a high-quality addition to the roster and at 29 years old has plenty of good football ahead of him.

The Phoenix have also been linked to young Gold Coast striker Golgol Mebrahtu, but a club spokesman said there had been no talks with him or any other new players.

The club's priority was instead to make decisions around off-contract players on the current roster, including Paston, Vince Lia, Chris Greenacre, Dani Sanchez and Alex Smith."

I also thought I'd heard on the radio this morning that Pasty hadn't been spoken to about a new contract.  He had other offers on the table but prefferred to stay in Wellington.


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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Moss back, good.
Traore and Mebrahtu at the Nix, good.
So long Lia, Good.
Pasty? Not sure.
 

Nostalgia isnt what it used to be...........

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
@ RedGed: I posted this article in the Expanding the ASB Prem thread. Asking how it compared to the cost of having an ASB Prem side. Didn't get a reply tho.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/02/25/308791_news.html

It says that the Fury were give a $350k "cost neutral" target to meet to play in the youth league. 
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Anybody know whats happening with jason Culina these days?

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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