He's only really persisted when he had no other options hasn't he? once he had obvious options and Brockie still wasn't scoring, he started him from the bench. Its all very well to say Brockie doesn't deserve his place but you've got to have someone to take his place that you can be reasonably sure will do a better job.
He's only really persisted when he had no other options hasn't he? once he had obvious options and Brockie still wasn't scoring, he started him from the bench. Its all very well to say Brockie doesn't deserve his place but you've got to have someone to take his place that you can be reasonably sure will do a better job.
Yeah true, he dropped Brockie for Ifill before he got injured. Guess I was thinking of this week where it seems Brockie will be starting ahead of Boyd.
Good signing i reckon. I truly believe the only reason he hadn't signed with the club earlier came down to Herbitism.
Or that it was 5 years ago when he trialled.
All that tells us is that once Ricki makes up his mind about someone then thats it. He didnt see what he wanted in Roy and wrote him off, perhaps understandably at the time, but hes been so good since then. Ricki had this mindset with a few players actually, even our own. He never saw Kosta or Rojas as being good enough. Then they go to aussie and start performing instantly. The same way of thinking is what kept Lochead and Christie in the AWs.
If it werent for Kosta and Rojas' success elsewhere he probably wouldnt have played many other youth, like Fenton. Not saying Fenton isnt good enough, he clearly is, but I reckon only when Ricki had been made to look like such a fool with the other two he actually started to change his train of thought - a little bit. It all came far too late for him though sadly.
FML.
It's clear that Ernie doesn't see Boyd as good enough as he only plays him off the bench and doesn't start him. Say.
Any more ignorance?
I think he makes a fair point. It took a lot to change Ricki's mind on a player once he was set. Rojas eventually broke into the starting line-up but it took some superb performances off the bench to convince him of that. Kosta never really became established for us before getting pinched by the Rawr. Meanwhile he regularly started the likes of Jade North / Ahmad Elrich who was supposedly socceroos but played like pants. Strangely that changed a bit last year when he felt compelled to pick some young players (Fenton, Boyd) despite them arguably not being ready at the time.
Ernie seems a lot less likely to pick on reputation so far, which is why I find it so strange that he's persisting with Brockie currently.
absolute BS.
So Jade North and Ahmad Elrich were taking taking Kosta and Rojas' spots? Or would that have been Greenie, Ifill and Leo?
"Rojas eventually broke into the starting line-up but it took some superb performances off the bench to convince him of that."
That doesn't seem a lot like never seeing someone as being good enough yeh? Marco was injured for a year and then forced his way into the starting line up from the bench. At which point we offered him Terry dollars to stay and he chose Melbourne. So no not a fair point at all.
Kosta wasn't better than the options we had and didn't take his chances when he had them. If you look at how he is playing for Melbourne this year, it is very similar. Everyone is saying how great he is, but he hasn't been converting chances, similar to the way he played against the Island nations for the AWs. He has missed a lot of easy chances or one-on-ones.
As for Ernie- how about Kenny?
Time and time again on this forum someone has come on saying Ricki didn't give the youth a chance, which is not the case. Kosta has said that, and both Marco and he certainly benefited from Ange's system, coaching and the quality of players around him, but for the Phoenix he was too inconsistent to demand a starting spot as of right.
I don't think Ernie doesn't think Boyd isn't good enough to start just that he is best deployed off the bench. He is easily the best impact player we have not just because of his recent form but because he can run and is very energetic.
As for persisting with Kenny and Brockie I think he is a little too patient with Kenny and wants to give Brockie time to find his form of last year. Although time is running out hence the Krishna signing.
Personally I think he throw Leo or hicks a start to kick Kenny up the ass and if Brockie hasn't scored in two weeks chuck Krishna into the mix.
On a side note can Krishna play on the wing or left side of a front 3 or he more central?
"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"
I don't think Ernie doesn't think Boyd isn't good enough to start just that he is best deployed off the bench. He is easily the best impact player we have not just because of his recent form but because he can run and is very energetic.
As for persisting with Kenny and Brockie I think he is a little too patient with Kenny and wants to give Brockie time to find his form of last year. Although time is running out hence the Krishna signing.
Personally I think he throw Leo or hicks a start to kick Kenny up the ass and if Brockie hasn't scored in two weeks chuck Krishna into the mix.
On a side note can Krishna play on the wing or left side of a front 3 or he more central?
Yes
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
martinb wrote:
I'm not sure if that is right is it? From my recollection [and please someone correct me if I'm wrong] Rojas got a starting spot because of injury to someone [Ifill maybe???] and did such a good job RH was forced to keep him playing. It wasn't a case of promoting him on his merits but because he was forced to and then couldn't drop him because he was obviously doing too well. Again, tell me if my recollection is wrong.
That doesn't seem a lot like never seeing someone as being good enough yeh? Marco was injured for a year and then forced his way into the starting line up from the bench. At which point we offered him Terry dollars to stay and he chose Melbourne. So no not a fair point at all.
Good signing i reckon. I truly believe the only reason he hadn't signed with the club earlier came down to Herbitism.
Or that it was 5 years ago when he trialled.
All that tells us is that once Ricki makes up his mind about someone then thats it. He didnt see what he wanted in Roy and wrote him off, perhaps understandably at the time, but hes been so good since then. Ricki had this mindset with a few players actually, even our own. He never saw Kosta or Rojas as being good enough. Then they go to aussie and start performing instantly. The same way of thinking is what kept Lochead and Christie in the AWs.
If it werent for Kosta and Rojas' success elsewhere he probably wouldnt have played many other youth, like Fenton. Not saying Fenton isnt good enough, he clearly is, but I reckon only when Ricki had been made to look like such a fool with the other two he actually started to change his train of thought - a little bit. It all came far too late for him though sadly.
FML.
It's clear that Ernie doesn't see Boyd as good enough as he only plays him off the bench and doesn't start him. Say.
Any more ignorance?
I think he makes a fair point. It took a lot to change Ricki's mind on a player once he was set. Rojas eventually broke into the starting line-up but it took some superb performances off the bench to convince him of that. Kosta never really became established for us before getting pinched by the Rawr. Meanwhile he regularly started the likes of Jade North / Ahmad Elrich who was supposedly socceroos but played like pants. Strangely that changed a bit last year when he felt compelled to pick some young players (Fenton, Boyd) despite them arguably not being ready at the time.
Ernie seems a lot less likely to pick on reputation so far, which is why I find it so strange that he's persisting with Brockie currently.
absolute BS.
So Jade North and Ahmad Elrich were taking taking Kosta and Rojas' spots? Or would that have been Greenie, Ifill and Leo?
<snip>
Grumpy old bastard alert
martinb wrote:
I'm not sure if that is right is it? From my recollection [and please someone correct me if I'm wrong] Rojas got a starting spot because of injury to someone [Ifill maybe???] and did such a good job RH was forced to keep him playing. It wasn't a case of promoting him on his merits but because he was forced to and then couldn't drop him because he was obviously doing too well. Again, tell me if my recollection is wrong.
That doesn't seem a lot like never seeing someone as being good enough yeh? Marco was injured for a year and then forced his way into the starting line up from the bench. At which point we offered him Terry dollars to stay and he chose Melbourne. So no not a fair point at all.
In his 2nd season, he came back from injury Rnd 13 and made 6 appearances off the bench before Ifill had his season ending injury Rnd 19.
martinb wrote:
I'm not sure if that is right is it? From my recollection [and please someone correct me if I'm wrong] Rojas got a starting spot because of injury to someone [Ifill maybe???] and did such a good job RH was forced to keep him playing. It wasn't a case of promoting him on his merits but because he was forced to and then couldn't drop him because he was obviously doing too well. Again, tell me if my recollection is wrong.
That doesn't seem a lot like never seeing someone as being good enough yeh? Marco was injured for a year and then forced his way into the starting line up from the bench. At which point we offered him Terry dollars to stay and he chose Melbourne. So no not a fair point at all.
In his 2nd season, he came back from injury Rnd 13 and made 6 appearances off the bench before Ifill had his season ending injury Rnd 19.
Good signing i reckon. I truly believe the only reason he hadn't signed with the club earlier came down to Herbitism.
Or that it was 5 years ago when he trialled.
All that tells us is that once Ricki makes up his mind about someone then thats it. He didnt see what he wanted in Roy and wrote him off, perhaps understandably at the time, but hes been so good since then. Ricki had this mindset with a few players actually, even our own. He never saw Kosta or Rojas as being good enough. Then they go to aussie and start performing instantly. The same way of thinking is what kept Lochead and Christie in the AWs.
If it werent for Kosta and Rojas' success elsewhere he probably wouldnt have played many other youth, like Fenton. Not saying Fenton isnt good enough, he clearly is, but I reckon only when Ricki had been made to look like such a fool with the other two he actually started to change his train of thought - a little bit. It all came far too late for him though sadly.
FML.
It's clear that Ernie doesn't see Boyd as good enough as he only plays him off the bench and doesn't start him. Say.
Any more ignorance?
Yes, FYL.
Good signing i reckon. I truly believe the only reason he hadn't signed with the club earlier came down to Herbitism.
Or that it was 5 years ago when he trialled.
All that tells us is that once Ricki makes up his mind about someone then thats it. He didnt see what he wanted in Roy and wrote him off, perhaps understandably at the time, but hes been so good since then. Ricki had this mindset with a few players actually, even our own. He never saw Kosta or Rojas as being good enough. Then they go to aussie and start performing instantly. The same way of thinking is what kept Lochead and Christie in the AWs.
If it werent for Kosta and Rojas' success elsewhere he probably wouldnt have played many other youth, like Fenton. Not saying Fenton isnt good enough, he clearly is, but I reckon only when Ricki had been made to look like such a fool with the other two he actually started to change his train of thought - a little bit. It all came far too late for him though sadly.
FML.
It's clear that Ernie doesn't see Boyd as good enough as he only plays him off the bench and doesn't start him. Say.
Any more ignorance?
I think he makes a fair point. It took a lot to change Ricki's mind on a player once he was set. Rojas eventually broke into the starting line-up but it took some superb performances off the bench to convince him of that. Kosta never really became established for us before getting pinched by the Rawr. Meanwhile he regularly started the likes of Jade North / Ahmad Elrich who was supposedly socceroos but played like pants. Strangely that changed a bit last year when he felt compelled to pick some young players (Fenton, Boyd) despite them arguably not being ready at the time.
Ernie seems a lot less likely to pick on reputation so far, which is why I find it so strange that he's persisting with Brockie currently.
absolute BS.
So Jade North and Ahmad Elrich were taking taking Kosta and Rojas' spots? Or would that have been Greenie, Ifill and Leo?
"Rojas eventually broke into the starting line-up but it took some superb performances off the bench to convince him of that."
That doesn't seem a lot like never seeing someone as being good enough yeh? Marco was injured for a year and then forced his way into the starting line up from the bench. At which point we offered him Terry dollars to stay and he chose Melbourne. So no not a fair point at all.
Kosta wasn't better than the options we had and didn't take his chances when he had them. If you look at how he is playing for Melbourne this year, it is very similar. Everyone is saying how great he is, but he hasn't been converting chances, similar to the way he played against the Island nations for the AWs. He has missed a lot of easy chances or one-on-ones.
As for Ernie- how about Kenny?
Time and time again on this forum someone has come on saying Ricki didn't give the youth a chance, which is not the case. Kosta has said that, and both Marco and he certainly benefited from Ange's system, coaching and the quality of players around him, but for the Phoenix he was too inconsistent to demand a starting spot as of right.
Rojas broke into the squad only when injuries left Ricki without other options. Kosta wasn't as lucky. This has all shit balled way off topic.
Back on topic please.
Good signing i reckon. I truly believe the only reason he hadn't signed with the club earlier came down to Herbitism.
Or that it was 5 years ago when he trialled.
All that tells us is that once Ricki makes up his mind about someone then thats it. He didnt see what he wanted in Roy and wrote him off, perhaps understandably at the time, but hes been so good since then. Ricki had this mindset with a few players actually, even our own. He never saw Kosta or Rojas as being good enough. Then they go to aussie and start performing instantly. The same way of thinking is what kept Lochead and Christie in the AWs.
If it werent for Kosta and Rojas' success elsewhere he probably wouldnt have played many other youth, like Fenton. Not saying Fenton isnt good enough, he clearly is, but I reckon only when Ricki had been made to look like such a fool with the other two he actually started to change his train of thought - a little bit. It all came far too late for him though sadly.
FML.
It's clear that Ernie doesn't see Boyd as good enough as he only plays him off the bench and doesn't start him. Say.
Any more ignorance?
I think he makes a fair point. It took a lot to change Ricki's mind on a player once he was set. Rojas eventually broke into the starting line-up but it took some superb performances off the bench to convince him of that. Kosta never really became established for us before getting pinched by the Rawr. Meanwhile he regularly started the likes of Jade North / Ahmad Elrich who was supposedly socceroos but played like pants. Strangely that changed a bit last year when he felt compelled to pick some young players (Fenton, Boyd) despite them arguably not being ready at the time.
Ernie seems a lot less likely to pick on reputation so far, which is why I find it so strange that he's persisting with Brockie currently.
absolute BS.
So Jade North and Ahmad Elrich were taking taking Kosta and Rojas' spots? Or would that have been Greenie, Ifill and Leo?
"Rojas eventually broke into the starting line-up but it took some superb performances off the bench to convince him of that."
That doesn't seem a lot like never seeing someone as being good enough yeh? Marco was injured for a year and then forced his way into the starting line up from the bench. At which point we offered him Terry dollars to stay and he chose Melbourne. So no not a fair point at all.
Kosta wasn't better than the options we had and didn't take his chances when he had them. If you look at how he is playing for Melbourne this year, it is very similar. Everyone is saying how great he is, but he hasn't been converting chances, similar to the way he played against the Island nations for the AWs. He has missed a lot of easy chances or one-on-ones.
As for Ernie- how about Kenny?
Time and time again on this forum someone has come on saying Ricki didn't give the youth a chance, which is not the case. Kosta has said that, and both Marco and he certainly benefited from Ange's system, coaching and the quality of players around him, but for the Phoenix he was too inconsistent to demand a starting spot as of right.
Rojas broke into the squad only when injuries left Ricki without other options. Kosta wasn't as lucky. This has all shit balled way off topic.
Back on topic please.
Didn't know you'd become a mod AJ.
As you can see above he broke in when there was an injury to Ifill. He'd been on the fringes and then came in when a position opened up as the next best player. Obviously Ricki was holding him back by playing Ifill ahead of him FFS. Ricki rated both Kosta and Marco, but at the time they simply weren't the best players for the positions as we had. I don't see how you get to do stoopid and then appoint yourself mod.
The change in selection policy IMO has more to do with Welnix and Morgan and no Terry and less to do with Ricki suddenly rating the youth. I think his natural instinct would have been not to have played Fenton and Boyd as much as he did, but some of the players (IE Totori, and a few others, lets be honest here and say it included Huysegems too) came up short of what we'd expected from them. Welnix (going on some of the things Gareth Morgan said) seemed to think if we played lots of youth we'd find tonnes more Marcos. But it doesn't work like that.
As for Michael White, he got full of himself and has been at nearly every ASBP club since. I'm not sure I would call a success beyond that season.
I agree, Michael's peak was at the Knights.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites
martinb wrote:
I'm not sure if that is right is it? From my recollection [and please someone correct me if I'm wrong] Rojas got a starting spot because of injury to someone [Ifill maybe???] and did such a good job RH was forced to keep him playing. It wasn't a case of promoting him on his merits but because he was forced to and then couldn't drop him because he was obviously doing too well. Again, tell me if my recollection is wrong.
That doesn't seem a lot like never seeing someone as being good enough yeh? Marco was injured for a year and then forced his way into the starting line up from the bench. At which point we offered him Terry dollars to stay and he chose Melbourne. So no not a fair point at all.
In his 2nd season, he came back from injury Rnd 13 and made 6 appearances off the bench before Ifill had his season ending injury Rnd 19.
That was my hazey recollection too. To my mind that removes the premise that RH saw the potential in him so much that he promoted him to the starting XI. He obviously thought he had some ability, but the decision to play him was based on a need for injury cover.
Could have sworn it was 2014, but it looks like we are stick in 2012-13 with this tired debate.
#letsbuildasmallerrectanglestadiumtoo
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Fair enough. The argument has definitely been done enough previously. Happy to move on.
It has turned into a bit of a debate hasn't it? The original issue raised [recently] was a comparison along the lines that Ernie has put his money where his mouth is as far as promoting local talent is concerned, where RH never had. So without going too far back down that track I'd say that Ernie is certainly not averse to giving ASB talent a fair go and others can decide themselves if they care or think that RH ever did. As an aside, RH was quoted as saying that players in the ASB weren't up to it [paraphrasing] but Ernie obviously doesn't think that.
It has turned into a bit of a debate hasn't it? The original issue raised [recently] was a comparison along the lines that Ernie has put his money where his mouth is as far as promoting local talent is concerned, where RH never had. So without going too far back down that track I'd say that Ernie is certainly not averse to giving ASB talent a fair go and others can decide themselves if they care or think that RH ever did. As an aside, RH was quoted as saying that players in the ASB weren't up to it [paraphrasing] but Ernie obviously doesn't think that.
This ^^
It has turned into a bit of a debate hasn't it? The original issue raised [recently] was a comparison along the lines that Ernie has put his money where his mouth is as far as promoting local talent is concerned, where RH never had. So without going too far back down that track I'd say that Ernie is certainly not averse to giving ASB talent a fair go and others can decide themselves if they care or think that RH ever did. As an aside, RH was quoted as saying that players in the ASB weren't up to it [paraphrasing] but Ernie obviously doesn't think that.
Well, he had reason to think that after Nix reserves demolished Japan-bound O-League winners Waitak 7-1 on their own turf. Contrasted with what happens now.
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
yawn
why does it always come back to ernie vs ricki
Every freaking decision ernie makes seems to generate some sort of comparison with ricki, it got very old a long long time ago.
yawn
why does it always come back to ernie vs ricki
Every freaking decision ernie makes seems to generate some sort of comparison with ricki, it got very old a long long time ago.
Grumpy old bastard alert
yawn
why does it always come back to ernie vs ricki
Every freaking decision ernie makes seems to generate some sort of comparison with ricki, it got very old a long long time ago.
It has turned into a bit of a debate hasn't it? The original issue raised [recently] was a comparison along the lines that Ernie has put his money where his mouth is as far as promoting local talent is concerned, where RH never had. So without going too far back down that track I'd say that Ernie is certainly not averse to giving ASB talent a fair go and others can decide themselves if they care or think that RH ever did. As an aside, RH was quoted as saying that players in the ASB weren't up to it [paraphrasing] but Ernie obviously doesn't think that.
It should also be acknowledged that Ricki and Ernie have operated within different constraints. Ernie's quite clearly been given the brief to focus on building the squad from within NZ, and aren't willing to spend a lot of cash on players, especially overseas ones.
Terry on the other hand was a lot more willing to splash the cash, and without such an approach a player like Ifill would never have worn a Phoenix shirt.
Shame we dont have a visa spot as Phillips just got released by palace...old but would still be quality in this league
yawn
why does it always come back to ernie vs ricki
Every freaking decision ernie makes seems to generate some sort of comparison with ricki, it got very old a long long time ago.
Um.. that it's boring and it got old a long time ago? Original post seemed fairly clear... ;)
yawn
why does it always come back to ernie vs ricki
Every freaking decision ernie makes seems to generate some sort of comparison with ricki, it got very old a long long time ago.
Um.. that it's boring and it got old a long time ago? Original post seemed fairly clear... ;)
Yep , lets compare football coaches to garden furniture .....
Shame we dont have a visa spot as Phillips just got released by palace...old but would still be quality in this league
+1
" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow
Lets get this back on topic. "Rory Fallon told he can find new Club" http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25671259
He is from New Zealand! LETS SIGN HIM*!
*post contains vast amounts of sarcasm
Am I HardNews in disguise?
He can slot into our fullback spots.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Shame we dont have a visa spot as Phillips just got released by palace...old but would still be quality in this league
+1
+2
yawn
why does it always come back to ernie vs ricki
Every freaking decision ernie makes seems to generate some sort of comparison with ricki, it got very old a long long time ago.
Um.. that it's boring and it got old a long time ago? Original post seemed fairly clear... ;)
Yep , lets compare football coaches to garden furniture .....
This thread needs more Swiss Toni
(cue Jag)
"Coaching the Phoenix is like making love to a beautiful woman..."
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
yawn
why does it always come back to ernie vs ricki
Every freaking decision ernie makes seems to generate some sort of comparison with ricki, it got very old a long long time ago.
The point I was making was that under RH & Terry's reign the Nix reserve team looked a highly efficient and professional outfit when they came to Auckland. I was v impressed, and would have been had it been ACFC they demolished 7-1 and not O-League winners Waitakerie. The reserves that day included McCain, Kwasnik, Caseres, Kosta, Siggy, Mulligan, all obviously really keen to get into the first team. So why the huge drop in standard since (going on results wherever Nix reserves play plus the need for ring-ins)? Lack of cash for quality back-up? Lack of quality back-up? Lack of motivation (i.e. these kids knowing they're not going to get near a 1st team match day spot). You tell me.
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
Lets get this back on topic. "Rory Fallon told he can find new Club" http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25671259
He is from New Zealand! LETS SIGN HIM*!
*post contains vast amounts of sarcasm
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
Lets get this back on topic. "Rory Fallon told he can find new Club" http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25671259
He is from New Zealand! LETS SIGN HIM*!
*post contains vast amounts of sarcasm
Only if any of them are on the pitch, oh hang on he could probably do it off the park with them.
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
Lets get this back on topic. "Rory Fallon told he can find new Club" http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25671259
He is from New Zealand! LETS SIGN HIM*!
*post contains vast amounts of sarcasm
If we wanted a hitman we could just bring Ljubo Milicevic back to the A-League
Am I HardNews in disguise?
I still think Rory would be quality for us....
Yeah people kind of over estimate the A-League I think. Its hard to draw comparisons to other leagues around the world. Some people might say its on par with the Championship/League 1, but in reality I could see Conference sides competing with the A-League. There are some incredibly dire performances in the A-League every week...
The only thing Rory probably doesn't have going for him is his age. I wouldn't take such a gamble on an import but because he's a kiwi, id be more happy to see him sign for a season or less and released because he's been proven to not be good enough, than just being outright told he's not good enough without having given him a run first.
This would be a good time of year to sign him.