Wellington Phoenix Men

Phoenix Transfer - speculation

3999 replies · 200,964 views
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Whitby boy wrote:

Personally I think the drop in rugby season ticket holders has been happening over the last 5 or 6 years and�has much more to do with the disrespectful way the NZRFU treats rugby fans - sell you tickets and play the All Blacks in local competitions when it suits us but corporates and high paying tourists�come first for the big games. One of the many things I love about the Nix is the way the�fans come first and the real effort made to get involved in the community. The suits at the NZRFU haven't got a clue but that's a subject for another thread.



Getting a little off topic here, but I more or less agree with what you're saying WB. Playing Devil's Advocate though, do you think that maybe when (or if?) football ever gets the same profile (read: $$$ involved) as rugby union in NZ, that the same pressure to bow to the corporates will be on the Nix?

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
 
Thanks for the news on the attacking Brazilian midfielder.  It will be fantastic if we can get someone, in addition to Diego, who is able to make a real impact on the A-League and attract fans to the stadium.  Also, I think having Diego and another quality Brazilian may help to 'unlock' Daniel.
 


Can people stop calling Diego Brazilian. He's American and was known as Diego Walsh until he came to the A-League. Dropped the 'Walsh' so he was more marketable.

btw I found views from supporters of his old MLS clubs on this site:http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460409

Pretty interesting. Seems he's done a little better down here.
valeo2009-03-01 22:21:33

a.haak

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wilso wrote:
Whitby boy wrote:

Personally I think the drop in rugby season ticket holders has been happening over the last 5 or 6 years and has much more to do with the disrespectful way the NZRFU treats rugby fans - sell you tickets and play the All Blacks in local competitions when it suits us but corporates and high paying tourists come first for the big games. One of the many things I love about the Nix is the way the fans come first and the real effort made to get involved in the community. The suits at the NZRFU haven't got a clue but that's a subject for another thread.



Getting a little off topic here, but I more or less agree with what you're saying WB. Playing Devil's Advocate though, do you think that maybe when (or if?) football ever gets the same profile (read: $$$ involved) as rugby union in NZ, that the same pressure to bow to the corporates will be on the Nix?
 
Possibly - the challenge will be to remember your roots and, when times get tough, who will you need to rely on - your core fan base. Big difference will be when we get to that point we will have Terry S, a passionate Wellingtonian owner, in charge not a corporate administrator. 
 
I couldn't believe Sneddan the other day when he said on the radio that NZ rugby supporters would understand the need for a large chunk of WC tickets to go to corporates. Like f**k they will - we (tax payers) pay for the stadiums and then get sod all tickets because they will go to corporates.
 
I know, I know - wrong thread - no more on subject.
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
axmfc wrote:
 
Thanks for the news on the attacking Brazilian midfielder.  It will be fantastic if we can get someone, in addition to Diego, who is able to make a real impact on the A-League and attract fans to the stadium.  Also, I think having Diego and another quality Brazilian may help to 'unlock' Daniel.
 


Can people stop calling Diego Brazilian. He's American and was known as Diego Walsh until he came to the A-League. Dropped the 'Walsh' so he was more marketable.

btw I found views from supporters of his old MLS clubs on this site:http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460409

Pretty interesting. Seems he's done a little better down here.


Haha @ the yanks trying to lecture anyone on football.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Isn't that the same as NZers/Aussies trying to do so :P?

a.haak

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
My concern wasn't so much about where we recruit from HN (except that we might not get the same value for money in England because it is a high-priced market).  Instead, I'm concerned that we don't recruit a sufficient number of proven pros who can strengthen the squad substantially beyond the standard of last season's squad.  As you say, an important factor is how the coach chooses the team to play.  But an important prerequisite for playing entertaining football, if the coach chooses to play this style, is having the personnel capable of implementation, in terms of technique, movement, speed, fitness.
 
 
Exactly the point I have been trying to make. Phoenix management have said they will spend a significant part of the salary cap on buying two English strikers from Div 1.
They will be expensive...probably around 90 to 100,000 pounds each. They also will probably players near the end of their careers, most likely 30 or older.
Will these players be able to play a high skill high tempo style if the coach choses ?
 
I know for a fact that if you offered 100,000 pounds for a short summer season in the A-league that many good players playing Div 2 on the continent would jump at it. There are many good south/central americans and Africans who can,t break into Div 1  who would be great in the A-League.
For the price of 2 elderly english plodders you get get 3  highly skilled south americans/africans/dutch/french/italian/danish. Plus you could get someone mid/late 20,s who still has many years. Additionally these players already have experiance of crap weather and different cultures.
It all comes down to bang for you bucks.....and English strikers don't do it for me!
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The over-whelming evidence in the A-League is that is a pipe-dream and not remotely the case.  This league has seen plenty of flops that meet your requirements and few to no successes. 

A good player at any level earns a pretty balanced salary across Europe whether it be in pounds, EUROs, Francs or whatever and if you are under 26 or 27 you still hold aspirations of going further in Europe no matter what league you play in. If you are starting every week in any division in Europe and scoring goals you are much more likely to be on a bigger sides radar than you will here.

Just which 2nd divisions in Europe do you mean incidentally ?  The dutch second division is dreadful, Belgian worse, the French second division pretty awful, Spanish 2nd division ?  I don't think so.  Bundeliga 2 ?  No.  Maybe Serie B... but if you are making any waves in Serie B you're on a Serie A club's radar or half-owned by them already and you are also probably paid a salary beyond what the Phoenix can afford.

It comes down to who you can afford, who you can guarantee will fit in to your team and lifestyle with the minimum of fuss (Edmundo Zura come on down) and who has a proven record at a level comparable to the A-League.  With the aims and goals for this season the Phoenix need to play it conservatively and know what they are getting in a player and I'm not going to bag them until I have some idea of who they are actually chasing....

...and I'm not going to write someone off just because they play in Britain... I have more integrity than Craig Foster.

Hard News2009-03-02 16:33:16

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago


Can everyone else just shut the f**k up now?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Good call HN, I dont think we give the A League enough credit for it's standard especially in comparrison to some leagues around the world. Obviously the EPL, Spanish, French, Italian, German, French and some South American Leagues surpass us in their top divisions, but there are plenty of others that make you wonder too.
 
The A League may have it's faults and poor play - just like everyone else. But the positives are also very good ones.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I am enjoying this debate HN. We can't shut it down yet coz we still have months to go before next season starts.

There are a number of "lesser" leagues around the world in countries in the middle East, Asia, Nth America. When these countries look to recruit attacking players most of the time they will look to players from Sth/Central America.
 
Why?. Because these players have the high level of skill or "flair" that the clubs are looking for. Sure there are the occasional dud. But the success rate is high enough for the clubs to keep recruiting them. There are now a large number of these players playing sucessfully accross the globe.They also come at a better price.
 
You have mentioned a number of dud players that have ended up in the A-league. I have bagged the club for recruiting English strikers.
 
Perhaps you would like to supply a list of English attacking players who have done well in the A-League. Then we can compare it to the list of C/S Americans who have been successful.
 
Then we could go on to compare the number of English strikers succesfully playing around the globe.
 
I am not bagging the league 1 UK standard. If we find a pair of great english strikers I will be rapt. If we found a Kevin Phillips..great. But I still think the cost/skill ratio is all wrong.
 
 I lived and worked in France last year and closely followed the French and Dutch leagues...both 1 and 2 .I saw many players in Div 2 that I thought would be fantastic in the A-League(some really good Africans especially and as always brazilians)....and I know they are not paid much.
 
I just think the club should cast its net a little wider.Sure look at Div 1 UK but look also across the chanel......This is too important.....we should'nt leave any stone unturned.
 
 
 
 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinidane wrote:

I am enjoying this debate HN. We can't shut it down yet coz we still have months to go before next season starts.

There are a number of "lesser" leagues around the world in countries in the middle East, Asia, Nth America. When these countries look to recruit attacking players most of the time they will look to players from Sth/Central America.
 
Why?. Because these players have the high level of skill or "flair" that the clubs are looking for. Sure there are the occasional dud. But the success rate is high enough for the clubs to keep recruiting them. There are now a large number of these players playing sucessfully accross the globe.They also come at a better price.
 
You have mentioned a number of dud players that have ended up in the A-league. I have bagged the club for recruiting English strikers.
 
Perhaps you would like to supply a list of English attacking players who have done well in the A-League. Then we can compare it to the list of C/S Americans who have been successful.
 
Then we could go on to compare the number of English strikers succesfully playing around the globe.
 
I am not bagging the league 1 UK standard. If we find a pair of great english strikers I will be rapt. If we found a Kevin Phillips..great. But I still think the cost/skill ratio is all wrong.
 
 I lived and worked in France last year and closely followed the French and Dutch leagues...both 1 and 2 .I saw many players in Div 2 that I thought would be fantastic in the A-League(some really good Africans especially and as always brazilians)....and I know they are not paid much.
 
I just think the club should cast its net a little wider.Sure look at Div 1 UK but look also across the chanel......This is too important.....we should'nt leave any stone unturned.
 
 
 
 
 
No stone will be unturned. And yes we are looking at other strikers from Europe. It will come down to $$$ and if they want to move to NZ. But we will do our best and convince them to come and play in the A league.
 
Don't forget Shane came from the UK league as did Danny Allsopp and Joel will be a revelation in the A League (hope I am wrong).
Tony P2009-03-02 20:53:05
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
In before Tony P posts six times in a row.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
His posting style has suddenly taken on a stabbing aesthetic...
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He is from Malben!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:


Did Joe Keenan not walk straight from the Melbourne Victory bench/squad into the Hibs lineup?

Clearly better than the A-League my ass.
 
Er, no he didn't actually - he walked from the bench / squad of Melbourne Victory to the squad or bench (if he's lucky) of Hibs. Not to mention the fact he was signed by a clown of a manager who has literally days left before he is inevitably sacked.
 
How about the other way round - Grant Brebner - no longer wanted in the SPL but walks straight into the Victory squad and is one of their best players in their league win a couple of years back?
 
Charlie Miller - no longer wanted in the SPL but still strolling about in the A-League despite being about 5 stones heavier than he ever was in Scotland?
 
Eugene Dadi - was hardly great for Aberdeen about 10 years ago, now one of Perth's best players??
 
When players start leaving clubs in the A-League for millions then come back to me and tell me it's better.
 
Overall, the A-League is quite clearly NOT better than the SPL. The day may well come when it is, but as it stands after only 4 years (more or less, I'm not sure?), it is not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
When players start leaving clubs in the A-League for millions then come back to me and tell me it's better.


Mark Milligan
Nikita Rukavytsya
James Holland
Adrian Leijer

I don't disagree with you, but these players almost certainly left for at least a million.  Possibly Nick Carle and Mile Jedinak as well.




Hard News2009-03-02 23:04:09

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
 
[/QUOTE]
 
No stone will be unturned. And yes we are looking at other strikers from Europe. It will come down to $$$ and if they want to move to NZ. But we will do our best and convince them to come and play in the A league.
 
Don't forget Shane came from the UK league as did Danny Allsopp and Joel will be a revelation in the A League (hope I am wrong).
[/QUOTE]
 
Thank you Tony P.....your entry into these forums is, as always a breath of fresh air. We know how hard recruiting can be and we have every confidence in you and the rest of the Phoenix management.
 
We wish you all the good fortune in the world in your search. Sometimes even the best plans and intentions come to nothing....often an element of luck and good timing are required.
 
I am sure I speak for my fellow Yellow feverites in that we are prepared to make the ultimate sacrafice....to leave our jobs and our loved ones. To come with you and Ricki as you travel the globe and help you in your  search of players(do we fly first class?)
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
anyone have any news on which A League club is after Indra Sahdan?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
When players start leaving clubs in the A-League for millions then come back to me and tell me it's better.


Mark Milligan
Nikita Rukavytsya
James Holland
Adrian Leijer

I don't disagree with you, but these players almost certainly left for at least a million.  Possibly Nick Carle and Mile Jedinak as well.




 
Pounds or NZD?
 
I was talking pounds.
 
Ok, several millions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Milligan was 3.5m US apparently.
 
Ok ok so there have been players, alas not that many. Anyway, you agree with what I am saying.
 
The A-League still has a way to go before it reaches a really decent standard, but it has the potential to do so.
 
I guess some people are defensive about it, and I understand that - I am doing exactly the same thing re: SPL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I hope the 'League of Ireland' is included in the European striker hunt
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Corkster wrote:
I hope the 'League of Ireland' is included in the European striker hunt
 
What's the standard of football compared to other leagues?
 
A-League? NZFC? English Conference or higher?  
 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
the UEFA coefficient would put it about on par with Moldova, Macedonia & Lithuania's top league
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A new GK? Any ideas where we are looking? NZFC?
Or is Ricki gonna have a browse while he's shopping in England?

Bosnich? Take him or Leave him?


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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Several strikers have been signed from the Irish league that have done really well in England. The Hunt bros at Reading, Kevin Doyle, Kyle Lafferty - also John O'Flynn - at Barnet at the moment but was going to be signed by Blackpool (Championship) before he got injured and Barnet took a punt on him coming right - he's scoring well foir a struggling team in League 2.

Peoples Republik of Aucklandia

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
playwithFire wrote:
A new GK? Any ideas where we are looking? NZFC?
Or is Ricki gonna have a browse while he's shopping in England?

Bosnich? Take him or Leave him?
He'd be my favourite option, with Covic my second
You know we belong together...

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ryan's Rovers wrote:
the UEFA coefficient would put it about on par with Moldova, Macedonia & Lithuania's top league


34 or something like that but that underrates the competition.
It's shown on Setanta Aussie, would be interesting to hear
 from any Aussie residents on here you've watched a few games. 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
PROAK wrote:

Several strikers have been signed from the Irish league that have done really well in England. The Hunt bros at Reading, Kevin Doyle, Kyle Lafferty - also John O'Flynn - at Barnet at the moment but was going to be signed by Blackpool (Championship) before he got injured and Barnet took a punt on him coming right - he's scoring well foir a struggling team in League 2.

 
I know Tony P posts on this site, which is great - but do any of the ideas on where to find players, or specific players to look at, ever make it into Tony's "must check that out' folder?
 
Nice to know he was open to suggestions, and it would give all of us on the forum new enthusiasm to keep the (serious!) suggestions coming.
 
Seems to me that the Irish League might be well worth a look. Maybe we could score someone with Smeltz potential for a good price.
 
If I remember it right, Smeltz had just been dumped by a Conference side when the Nix picked him up.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Corkster wrote:
Ryan's Rovers wrote:
the UEFA coefficient would put it about on par with Moldova, Macedonia & Lithuania's top league


34 or something like that but that underrates the competition.
It's shown on Setanta Aussie, would be interesting to hear
 from any Aussie residents on here you've watched a few games. 


Is it? I've only seen Gaelic Football on there tbh

a.haak

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
playwithFire wrote:
A new GK? Any ideas where we are looking? NZFC?
Or is Ricki gonna have a browse while he's shopping in England?

Bosnich? Take him or Leave him?


Take him. Cannot see it happening though.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Calamity James at Portsmouth??
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I know it may seem early but we should really be trying to tie some of our players down to longer contracts (like Bertos or McKain) who's contracts are running out at the end of next season. Otherwise I fear we may have a Smeltz/Moss situation
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The backup keeper is a bit of a tough one, not really a spot you want to use up an import spot on, or spend too much of the cap with, but need someone of good quality.

The aussie guy we used when Paston got injured is with the Gold Coast next yr. Who would be the 3rd choice all whites keeper atm? Guess they would be likely, unless we use it for one of the youth spots.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Scott Higgins - about 6'7" tall. I watched him during the half time intervals having a kick about with Plodder, Daniel & Kwasi. I tell you what, he'd have made a great center forward with his ball skills and height. I'm surprised Ricki didn't get that adventurous. Good fella to chat to as well.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SC03 wrote:
playwithFire wrote:
A new GK? Any ideas where we are looking? NZFC?
Or is Ricki gonna have a browse while he's shopping in England?

Bosnich? Take him or Leave him?


Take him. Cannot see it happening though.

Bosnich = joke
Greg Walters from waikato fc was class tho, gone back to North Carolina now same!
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
Scott Higgins - about 6'7" tall. I watched him during the half time intervals having a kick about with Plodder, Daniel & Kwasi. I tell you what, he'd have made a great center forward with his ball skills and height. I'm surprised Ricki didn't get that adventurous. Good fella to chat to as well.


The same Scott Higgins that is signed with Gold Coast United?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agent 47 wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:
Scott Higgins - about 6'7" tall. I watched him during the half time intervals having a kick about with Plodder, Daniel & Kwasi. I tell you what, he'd have made a great center forward with his ball skills and height. I'm surprised Ricki didn't get that adventurous. Good fella to chat to as well.
The same Scott Higgins that is signed with Gold Coast United?


Yes.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sami Hyypia's of contract at the end of the season...
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