Wellington Phoenix Men

R13 vs CCM | NYE | 9:00pm | SS1

357 replies · 27,926 views
about 10 years ago

Manny has priors too, so he probably won't get off with just a slap on the wrist. He's done his fair of thuggish stuff and the whole incident was just ugly - if the ref had called the foul against O'Donovan originally for being all over Manny then the arm swing and headbutt wouldn't have happened. 

Once again though what rankles is the scattergun nature of A League discipline. If O'Donovan hadn't retaliated with the headbutt, would Manny have been cited for the incident? If Manny deserves a red card and a suspension then what about the WSW guy who gave Siggy concussion earlier in the season? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he was cited and that was at least as bad as Manny's one. And those sort of arm swings and flailing elblows happen at almost every set piece and you very rarely see yellow cards, let alone reds for it. Refs usually just have a chat and make that both palms facing down "calm down" gesture. 

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 10 years ago

Manny has priors too, so he probably won't get off with just a slap on the wrist. He's done his fair of thuggish stuff and the whole incident was just ugly - if the ref had called the foul against O'Donovan originally for being all over Manny then the arm swing and headbutt wouldn't have happened. 

He did. And actually, Manny swings his arm after the whistle had gone for the foul.

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about 10 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

Manny has priors too, so he probably won't get off with just a slap on the wrist. He's done his fair of thuggish stuff and the whole incident was just ugly - if the ref had called the foul against O'Donovan originally for being all over Manny then the arm swing and headbutt wouldn't have happened. 

He did. And actually, Manny swings his arm after the whistle had gone for the foul.

ah fair enough, I stand corrected. I've only seen the videos after. I was going to watch the game recorded but once I read the match report I thought I'd save myself the stress

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 10 years ago

we have to be careful what we wish for here...

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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about 10 years ago

Merrick said in the post-game interview that Manny used to be  a hard man but that he cleaned up his act in the last 1 - 2 seasons.

What is our current ranking list of WP players yellow card tally? This season / last season?

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 10 years ago

Our discipline is crap. Looks like there will be 3 players suspended from our next game.

The Manny incident has taken the focus off the fact they we played poorly against CCM with many of the experienced players guilty of poor performances.

I hope that Ernie addresses this issue  by giving these players some blunt truths.

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about 10 years ago

I also want to point out that Muscat received a yellow card when a penalty was wrongfully awarded against him earlier in the game. If the ref saw the incident, whether he saw it as a yellow or red, Manny would have been off. What was Manny doing being so stupid when already on a yellow?

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about 10 years ago

whatever wrote:

Our discipline is crap. Looks like there will be 3 players suspended from our next game.

The Manny incident has taken the focus off the fact they we played poorly against CCM with many of the experienced players guilty of poor performances.

I hope that Ernie addresses this issue  by giving these players some blunt truths.

Exactly. Bonevacia gave away  a YC at 3-1 down with time almost up. What was that about? That was the worst possible time to give away a card.

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about 10 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

Manny has priors too, so he probably won't get off with just a slap on the wrist. He's done his fair of thuggish stuff and the whole incident was just ugly - if the ref had called the foul against O'Donovan originally for being all over Manny then the arm swing and headbutt wouldn't have happened. 

He did. And actually, Manny swings his arm after the whistle had gone for the foul.

no he didn't, there was no foul. It was play on after the tussle and the headbutt happened behind play - Lia kicked it out when Manny was down.
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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

Bullion wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Manny has priors too, so he probably won't get off with just a slap on the wrist. He's done his fair of thuggish stuff and the whole incident was just ugly - if the ref had called the foul against O'Donovan originally for being all over Manny then the arm swing and headbutt wouldn't have happened. 

He did. And actually, Manny swings his arm after the whistle had gone for the foul.

no he didn't, there was no foul. It was play on after the tussle and the headbutt happened behind play - Lia kicked it out when Manny was down.

Pretty sure that Manny takes the free kick, passes it to Durante, and then jogs over to O'Donovan (who was walking away) for the headbutt.

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about 10 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

Bullion wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Manny has priors too, so he probably won't get off with just a slap on the wrist. He's done his fair of thuggish stuff and the whole incident was just ugly - if the ref had called the foul against O'Donovan originally for being all over Manny then the arm swing and headbutt wouldn't have happened. 

He did. And actually, Manny swings his arm after the whistle had gone for the foul.

no he didn't, there was no foul. It was play on after the tussle and the headbutt happened behind play - Lia kicked it out when Manny was down.

Pretty sure that Manny takes the free kick, passes it to Durante, and then jogs over to O'Donovan (who was walking away) for the headbutt.

will have to watch it again, don't think it would have been after the whistle as it occurred as the foul was being committed.
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about 10 years ago

Of course Manny lashes out, he was held back and his jersey pulled. But that prick's head butt deserves a lengthy ban.  I don't think manny should be though

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about 10 years ago

I think they are both gone ... Muscat for 3 to 4 weeks .... Donovan for 6 to 10 weeks...

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

Midfielder wrote:

I think they are both gone ... Muscat for 3 to 4 weeks .... Donovan for 6 to 10 weeks...

he does not use his elbow. And as we now know an elbow is 1 week. president set by MRP.

I note - FFA no mention of the incorrect penalty call.

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 10 years ago

Are the FFA meeting today ?

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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about 10 years ago

wow this forum must have had a new delivery of eye patches.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 10 years ago

I wonder how Manny can be cited in the first place because surely the referee saw the tangle and at the time did not think anything from it warranted a card - it's only the headbutt that was missed.

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about 10 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

wow this forum must have had a new delivery of eye patches.

Nothing to see here, move along

E's Flat Ah's Flat Too

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about 10 years ago

Are the FFA meeting today ?

  YES

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 10 years ago

I am expecting Manny to get slammed and O'Donovan to be lifted out on the shoulders of the FFA with applause alround.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 10 years ago

1- Manny pushed off balance over O'D leg leg 2 As close as the elbow gets as he try's to re-balance 3 Arm carries on as he is still trying to balance up, back of hand contacts O''D's lower jaw.   IMO  

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 10 years ago

UFC have invited both men to a cage fight. 

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

Chris Kerr wrote:

Questions that need to be asked when looking at these incidents. You have to view each action in isolation of another because every action can potentially be sanctionable.

Did this happen after the whistle?

Who started it?

What was the intention of the player?

What degree of force/speed was used?

What part of the opponent did he make contact with?

What is the risk of injury or propensity to cause injury from this action?

Whom continued the escalation of the incident?

For Manny:

1) part of the initial incident or a cheap shot after the whistle? 

2) a retaliation and an escalation, but still part of an inital physical entanglement.

3) not premeditated, but still an illegal action

4) It doesn't appear to be too bad from watching it- however was the damage to Roy from the elbow or headbut? 

5) face. That's not good. It didn't appear to me initially that much contact was made.

6) I'd say a fairly low risk of injury. Especially compared to challenges studs up into ankles or knees. It isn't particularly forceful or violent IMO which has changed 3 times on 3 viewings.

7) This was a continuation and a retaliation to an irritating, but non-violent foul. 

For O'Donovan it appears to be a pre-meditated and violent action which is not linked to any other on-going play, a serious escalation which could have lead to concussion or other potentially more serious injuries.

Chris doesn't mention prior record- Manny broke Marco's jaw and has in the past been quite a dirty player. The disappointing thing here is that he is a player we are (had been) looking to to fill a leadership gap and he had been playing at CB much better than I expected.

At the risk of....surely the FFA have to come down hard on O'Donovan. To preach a family game and ban fans on that basis and then let a brawler walk or be leniently punished (3/4 weeks) would be hypocritical. On the other hand there are a lot of under-currents here and the 'Nix don't have that many friends this year in head office it would seem.



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about 10 years ago

Bullion wrote:

I wonder how Manny can be cited in the first place because surely the referee saw the tangle and at the time did not think anything from it warranted a card - it's only the headbutt that was missed.

but then in the case of O'Donovans head butt, how is that being cited when it was seen by one official and sanctioned? I thought it was only if the incident was missed.

We make a lot of assumptions in a vacuum of facts about what was seen and not seen. You can't tell me that any person that saw the head butt would ever say 'well that's a yellow' so how can it be that if the Lino saw it, he is saying yellow?

I still think both will spend time on the sideline with Manny less than O'Donovan. It's a dirty cheap shot and really cannot believe people are trying to defend this or make it to be nothing when it happened after the whistle and there is a photo of the damage done to O'Donocan prior to head butt. 

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

Jeff Vader wrote:

Bullion wrote:

I wonder how Manny can be cited in the first place because surely the referee saw the tangle and at the time did not think anything from it warranted a card - it's only the headbutt that was missed.

but then in the case of O'Donovans head butt, how is that being cited when it was seen by one official and sanctioned? I thought it was only if the incident was missed.

We make a lot of assumptions in a vacuum of facts about what was seen and not seen. You can't tell me that any person that saw the head butt would ever say 'well that's a yellow' so how can it be that if the Lino saw it, he is saying yellow?

I still think both will spend time on the sideline with Manny less than O'Donovan. It's a dirty cheap shot and really cannot believe people are trying to defend this or make it to be nothing when it happened after the whistle and there is a photo of the damage done to O'Donocan prior to head butt. 

Ordinarily yes, only if missed / not dealt with. In this case it was cited as an "obvious referee error", presumably because O'Donovan should have been given straight red regardless of provocation, and Manny a second yellow (or nothing, depending on one's point of view regarding the elbow, as discussion here shows).

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 10 years ago

someone on Twitter has suggest yellow was for initial fowl on MM and no official directly saw the HeadBut

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

The panel meeting decided that both have a case to answer but interestingly the clause has not been spelled out in Manny's case. It has been spelled out in O'Donovan's case (obvious error by referee), and the hearing will be disciplinary. The panel will be seeing them separately (Tuesday for Manny, Wednesday for Roy), under separate clauses.

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/manny-muscat-an...

My own uneducated guess is that they will want Manny's view on the matter and if they decide his earlier elbow (which presumably aggravated Roy O'Donovan and may have given him the shiner) merited a yellow then he would have got two yellows that game and may get one match ban for this, missing our Sunday game against Brisbane. It looks however that O'Donovan will be given a more serious treatment because of the clause used; possibly just due to the serious nature of his retaliation - whether Manny chased him and gave him verbal grief or for the earlier elbow, or whatever else. I can be completely wrong of course.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

"Wellington Phoenix defender Manny Muscat and Central Coast Mariners striker Roy O'Donovan have been cited following Thursday night's Hyundai A-League match between the two sides in Gosford.

Manny Muscat cited by Match Review Panel

The independent Match Review Panel ( MRP ) – consisting of Simon Micallef (Chair), Alan Davidson and Alan Contini – convened to consider an incident involving Manny Muscat (Wellington Phoenix) which arose in or around the 58 th minute of Wellington Phoenix’s Round 13 Hyundai A-League Match against Central Coast Mariners on Thursday, 31 December 2015.

The Player has been cited for the incident and a show cause notice has been issued (the Notice ). The Player has until 12:00pm (noon) AEDT on Tuesday, 5 January 2016 to make submissions in response to the Notice. The MRP will reconvene tomorrow afternoon to consider the Citation Incident and any submissions filed by the Player.

Roy O’Donovan cited by FFA

Roy O’Donovan (Central Coast Mariners) has been cited by FFA under clause 9.40 (Obvious Error – FFA Citations) of the Hyundai A-League Disciplinary Regulations for an incident which arose in or around the 58th minute of the Central Coast Mariners’ Round 13 Hyundai A-League Match against Wellington Phoenix on Thursday, 31 December 2015. The matter has been referred to a Disciplinary Committee hearing, scheduled to occur in Sydney at FFA’s offices commencing at 4:30pm AEDT on Wednesday, 6 January 2016."


Read more at http://www.a-league.com.au/article/manny-muscat-a...

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 10 years ago

So they are saying 'here is a red card situation for Manny that has been missed and we can review it' and 'here is an obvious error by the referee that was missed so we can review it' That seems to be what they are saying.

If it was only a yellow for Manny that was missed, then there would be a dozen reviews every week for fouls on Roly alone let alone the other yellows that get missed so they must feel from the footage presented, it's a red. 3 weeks for Manny at a minimum I reckon now.

O'Donovan could be in a bit of strife I think.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

Jeff Vader wrote:

So they are saying 'here is a red card situation for Manny that has been missed and we can review it' and 'here is an obvious error by the referee that was missed so we can review it' That seems to be what they are saying.

If it was only a yellow for Manny that was missed, then there would be a dozen reviews every week for fouls on Roly alone let alone the other yellows that get missed so they must feel from the footage presented, it's a red. 3 weeks for Manny at a minimum I reckon now.  O'Donovan could be in a bit of strife I think.

It might be just a yellow for Manny that got missed. While some on this forum have already suggested it should have been a red for his elbow thing, I have no way of telling either way, so will leave it to the panel. Manny may not have been cited if Roy did not retaliate. I agree that the situation with Roly getting regularly fouled is beyond the pale, and that it goes unpunished drives us easily into conspiracy theories.

Getting back to the MRP, I am more inclined to think Manny only got cited because Roy retaliated. And Manny's hearing will be important also to make sure that O'Donovan's hearing is complete and even-handed, in the anticipation of the strife likely coming his way, as you said. If tomorrow they examine the elbowing and find good reason to give Manny more than one week suspension, then I would not be surprised if on Thursday O'Donovan is banned for the rest of the season.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

the Manny incident would/should have been seen and adjudicated on by Ruff and Ass Ruff as it was on the ball. 

They saw nothing that warranted any sanction for Manny including pansy pat . I'm assuming OD's yellow was for the shirt pull and no sanction was given for the head but. 

Hence the wording of please explain notice. 

Simple

Incident in 58th minute  not 56th or 57th 

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 10 years ago

Nah, with O'D it has to be that the ref erred by only yellow carding him for the headbutt. Otherwise he would of carded him at the time of the shirt pull wouldn't he of? He gave him his card after play stopped after the head butt and discussions with Assistant, so it must relate to the stoppage not the prior incident. Shirt pulling is not a red card offence so he can't be called wrong on that if he only gave a yellow.

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about 10 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

the Manny incident would/should have been seen and adjudicated on by Ruff and Ass Ruff as it was on the ball. 

They saw nothing that warranted any sanction for Manny including pansy pat . I'm assuming OD's yellow was for the shirt pull and no sanction was given for the head but. 

Hence the wording of please explain notice. 

Simple

Incident in 58th minute  not 56th or 57th 

If the time shows as 58.01, thats the 59th minute. The first minute is 00.00 to 00.59.The second minute is 1.00 to 1.59. Just saying.

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about 10 years ago

Nah, with O'D it has to be that the ref erred by only yellow carding him for the headbutt. Otherwise he would of carded him at the time of the shirt pull wouldn't he of? He gave him his card after play stopped after the head butt and discussions with Assistant, so it must relate to the stoppage not the prior incident. Shirt pulling is not a red card offence so he can't be called wrong on that if he only gave a yellow.

The AR reported on something - I say shirt pull. Amateur as don't know my minutes. 

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 10 years ago

Muscat has form for use of Elbows and various other cheap shots. I thought he had got that out of his game but it has crept back this year and he has been lucky on a couple of occassions with some clashes (Brosque in Sydney comes to mind and yes Brosque is a cod but Manny reacted badly) so I can see him and rightly so getting two or three weeks. The discussion around under what provisions he has been cited are just bollocks.  He threw a deliberate elbow that was caught on telly. Was he provoked ? Probably but that means diddly squat. 

O Donovan will probably get 4 to 6 weeks and again rightly so. While not a nose busting nut to the face, it was way beyond the regular "forehead on forehead" push commonly seen. 

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about 10 years ago

I think O'Donovan will get 3 games if he is unlucky. The way the metrics get changed for games involving us is a bit like the Warriors and Kiwis getting shafted just before an Oz V Kiwis test.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 10 years ago

Manny gets two

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/article/manny-muscat-found-guilty-by-independent-match-review-panel/kkqljixxuspn10xczt2mkkq7b

I wanna see 6 for Roy minimum.

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about 10 years ago

"Tuesday, 5 January 2016 - Staff writer

"The independent Match Review Panel (MRP) - consisting of Simon Micallef (Chair), Alan Contini and Alan Davidson - reconvened today to consider a Citation Incident involving Manny Muscat of Wellington Phoenix (the Player) which arose in or around the 58th minute of Wellington Phoenix’s Round 13 Hyundai A-League Match against Central Coast Mariners on Thursday, 31 December 2015.

The Player was cited by the MRP in accordance with the Hyundai A-League Disciplinary Regulations (Regulations). In reviewing the Citation Incident during this afternoon’s meeting, the MRP took into consideration all of the available evidence, including the submissions lodged by Wellington Phoenix on behalf of the Player.

The MRP determined that the Player committed the offence of R2 – Assault on a Player (e.g. violent conduct when not challenging for the ball) against Roy O’Donovan (Central Coast Mariners). The MRP proposed a sanction of the Mandatory Match suspension plus one (1) additional Hyundai A-League match, being the minimum sanction for the offence under the Regulations. This equates to two (2) Hyundai A-League matches."


Read more at http://www.a-league.com.au/article/manny-muscat-f...

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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