We need to talk about David

In the local club scene there is defo some negativity and hurt around the Nix and how they blended into clubs before they could field the reserves in the National comps. I think it's primarily down to how they left and moved onto other clubs when contracts ended, inevitably when the Nix left all the top players did too leaving a vacuum at the top.
Besides that when the Nix first came to town 18 years ago there was a genuine believe the Aleague footy was not real footy amongst a certain breed of ex-pat footballers. Most of them who played footy at a local level refused to show any interest in the club or the league - despite what the club did to engage with them.
I'm not sure if that sentiment still exists but it wouldn't surprise me.

That "not real footy" syndrome is still relatively strong in the migrant community because its point of reference is often UK football and not the Australian league.  I used to think that it would be even harder to break that thinking mould in Christchurch when it comes to a potential A-League club here one day.   This is why an OFC participation may in fact be a great catalyst for Christchurch United, sorry, ahem, "South Island United". 

Bullion

observerfromuh

clowns

Big missed opportunity to ride the wave of interest in football that came with AFC’s entry into the competition. AFC have done very well on and off-field, partly through resources and partly through good strategy (salary capped league after all).

But IMO Wellington’s main misstep was not being a likeable underdog. Last year in particular was less gritty, courageous, plucky (but occasionally fun) underdog, and more miserable, whinging, cheap and underperforming. The football was largely dreadful, yet there was total intransigence around tactics/personnel and a general ‘we know best’ attitude when things were very obviously bad. It’s not an aura that many new or returning punters want to get around and associate with. Slight improvements this year but still a similar vibe and people are voting with their feet. 

It’s not one person’s fault or job, but it feels like an overall strategic failure during what should be halcyon days for the game, with two pro sides and AWs World Cup on the horizon. 

For those who follow rugby, Southland have had a few good years but mostly lose. However their local battlers tear into it, and their coaching and admin staff don’t spend time sooking about how everything sucks and Otago/Canterbury/Auckland have it so good. Weirdly enough, they are widely respected and people go and watch.

End of novel

Likeable underdog was the worst route they could go down.

You are an established club with no financial problems, but yet you have broken trust with a lot of clubs in the Wellington scene and that trust hasn't came back to some clubs.

It seems like unless a prospect doesn't go down your academy route, they won't sign you or give you a look in. Two recent examples are Isa Prins and Jesse Randall and you could name a lot more.

They are definitely not the likeable underdog and Dome's comments after their 5th derby loss in a row (which could have been 6 or 7 btw) prove that they are playing the victim.

The club deserves better and the fact that people question replacing Dome is astonishing. He would have been sacked by most A-League clubs by now. 

My suggesting is tell him he has to reapply for his job for next season and advertise it to see who actually applies for the role. (and if salary is a question, just advertise the salary).

you have no idea how he is performing in other sides (like areas under his direct purview) of the business. much more relevant will be the issues with ofc pro team. the charter school seems all good to go:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2019017306/new-sports-charter-school-in-upper-hutt

I agree with Bullion and also with what Footballtragic said earlier.  Dome might be doing well in other KPIs and yet we are piling on Dome instead of querying the Director of Football's role in things like working with local clubs, agreeing that local young players of potential who are outside of the academy should also be looked after instead of slipping through the cracks, etc etc.

theprof

In the local club scene there is defo some negativity and hurt around the Nix and how they blended into clubs before they could field the reserves in the National comps. I think it's primarily down to how they left and moved onto other clubs when contracts ended, inevitably when the Nix left all the top players did too leaving a vacuum at the top.
Besides that when the Nix first came to town 18 years ago there was a genuine believe the Aleague footy was not real footy amongst a certain breed of ex-pat footballers. Most of them who played footy at a local level refused to show any interest in the club or the league - despite what the club did to engage with them.
I'm not sure if that sentiment still exists but it wouldn't surprise me.

It does go a lot deeper than that though. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, Nix management (including the academy at the time) did push their weight around, compromised the integrity of capital football competitions, were hugely arrogant in their dealings with other clubs, many of which have been around for over 100 years. There was just a lack of respect for the grassroots game which has unfortunately alienated many of the Clubs. Could get away with it while they were the only game in town but unfortunately no longer. The Clubs should be where the bread-and-butter support should be coming from, but it astonishes me how many people in executive positions at different clubs want the Nix to lose because of the way they were treated. If I was Nix management, I would be going cap in hand to the Clubs and trying to bury the hatchet but just not sure this is possible with some of the current personnel. 

Yeah I hear ya, and agree that there certainly was the perception form some that the Nix behaved arrogantly and caused more damage than good. 
Personally, as a member of a Wellington club involved in the running of the club I want to see both parties get over any past hurts and move forward. Harbouring any bad blood from the early days is not how clubs survive. The amateur clubs need the pro club to succeed, just as much as the pros need the amateurs to be around. From what I've seen the Nix do and have done a lot of good outreach over the years and I expect they've tried to mend relationships as good as one can, it's time for the clubs in the region to get on board.

theprof

Yeah I hear ya, and agree that there certainly was the perception form some that the Nix behaved arrogantly and caused more damage than good. 
Personally, as a member of a Wellington club involved in the running of the club I want to see both parties get over any past hurts and move forward. Harbouring any bad blood from the early days is not how clubs survive. The amateur clubs need the pro club to succeed, just as much as the pros need the amateurs to be around. From what I've seen the Nix do and have done a lot of good outreach over the years and I expect they've tried to mend relationships as good as one can, it's time for the clubs in the region to get on board.

Totally agree with all of this. Just not sure if Nix management have actually tried to mend these relationships or whether they believe it is necessary. May have done but not that I am aware of from my discussions with executive members of some of the more influential clubs. 

Footballtragic

theprof

In the local club scene there is defo some negativity and hurt around the Nix and how they blended into clubs before they could field the reserves in the National comps. I think it's primarily down to how they left and moved onto other clubs when contracts ended, inevitably when the Nix left all the top players did too leaving a vacuum at the top.
Besides that when the Nix first came to town 18 years ago there was a genuine believe the Aleague footy was not real footy amongst a certain breed of ex-pat footballers. Most of them who played footy at a local level refused to show any interest in the club or the league - despite what the club did to engage with them.
I'm not sure if that sentiment still exists but it wouldn't surprise me.

It does go a lot deeper than that though. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, Nix management (including the academy at the time) did push their weight around, compromised the integrity of capital football competitions, were hugely arrogant in their dealings with other clubs, many of which have been around for over 100 years. There was just a lack of respect for the grassroots game which has unfortunately alienated many of the Clubs. Could get away with it while they were the only game in town but unfortunately no longer. The Clubs should be where the bread-and-butter support should be coming from, but it astonishes me how many people in executive positions at different clubs want the Nix to lose because of the way they were treated. If I was Nix management, I would be going cap in hand to the Clubs and trying to bury the hatchet but just not sure this is possible with some of the current personnel. 

they sort of had to. capital football/nz football were dragging their feet at getting a solution sorted that allowed the Nix to have their academy players play at a decent level - something that AFC benefited by from the offset. those deals with lower hutt and wellington united were not first choice for anyone but needed for the Nix - and the deals with those clubs were entered into freely by both parties.

Very interesting to read some of the comments about the interaction with clubs.
Im actuall  going to ask for that subject to be put on the agenda for the next FRG meeting and will ask to be able to report back any answers. Next meeting is in the New Year

Bullion

Footballtragic

theprof

In the local club scene there is defo some negativity and hurt around the Nix and how they blended into clubs before they could field the reserves in the National comps. I think it's primarily down to how they left and moved onto other clubs when contracts ended, inevitably when the Nix left all the top players did too leaving a vacuum at the top.
Besides that when the Nix first came to town 18 years ago there was a genuine believe the Aleague footy was not real footy amongst a certain breed of ex-pat footballers. Most of them who played footy at a local level refused to show any interest in the club or the league - despite what the club did to engage with them.
I'm not sure if that sentiment still exists but it wouldn't surprise me.

It does go a lot deeper than that though. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, Nix management (including the academy at the time) did push their weight around, compromised the integrity of capital football competitions, were hugely arrogant in their dealings with other clubs, many of which have been around for over 100 years. There was just a lack of respect for the grassroots game which has unfortunately alienated many of the Clubs. Could get away with it while they were the only game in town but unfortunately no longer. The Clubs should be where the bread-and-butter support should be coming from, but it astonishes me how many people in executive positions at different clubs want the Nix to lose because of the way they were treated. If I was Nix management, I would be going cap in hand to the Clubs and trying to bury the hatchet but just not sure this is possible with some of the current personnel. 

they sort of had to. capital football/nz football were dragging their feet at getting a solution sorted that allowed the Nix to have their academy players play at a decent level - something that AFC benefited by from the offset. those deals with lower hutt and wellington united were not first choice for anyone but needed for the Nix - and the deals with those clubs were entered into freely by both parties.

AFC also had the benefit of seeing the mistakes the Phoenix had made. Lets be honest it was a new thing for all parties and pretty easy for mistakes to be made.
Some in club land hadnt liked the formation of the Phoenix from the start and made it clear they wernt interested in supporting them. Way back in the day talking to some people it was almost if you supported a certain club you also couldnt have an allegiance with the Phoenix. 

I remember being mocked for even mentioning my excitement about the Nix, by members of my own team at the time. Which I found bizarre, but the reasoning was down to NZ not being a real football country. I've been told similar things about women's football too from a South American dude I played with

This all sounds remarkably like the animosity that swiftly developed between staunch ACFC supporters (i.e. the rump of Bloc 5/Knights/Kingz fans who found solace at Kiwitea St.) and the original YF. I had no idea that within the capital there was similar animosity between "the old guard" and "the upstarts".
Thanks for filling me in.

Interesting thread to catch up on, does seem to be things going g on behind the scenes.

IMG_9003.jpeg 1.04 MB

Also both Rory Fallon and Paul Ifill will not be continuing on with their roles, Rory has done amazing things at Upper Hutt and it’s been well talked about the success Iffy has had at Olympic…… could they be Nix bound?
Apologies if this is all covered in another thread somewhere else.
In terms of the fans I think a win over AFC would do amazing things for mental health and belief lol

Rory is rumoured to be heading to Auckland FC.

coochiee

Rory is rumoured to be heading to Auckland FC.

Ah well that’s disappointing 

YellowAndBlack

coochiee

Rory is rumoured to be heading to Auckland FC.

Ah well that’s disappointing 

He's spent time at the Nix already too.

Is this the first staff member poached?

AucklandPhoenix

Is this the first staff member poached?

Won't be the last IMO. 

This thread is ridiculous, my point is Dome is failing on every footballing metric and someone else should be given a crack, but its all good lets keep him as he can set up a charter school and hire football coaches from areas without a single professional team (aka the next step is to move to WGTN or AKLD).

AucklandPhoenix

Is this the first staff member poached?

Was Rory still at the Nix?
I thought he left last year

coochiee

AucklandPhoenix

Is this the first staff member poached?

Was Rory still at the Nix?
I thought he left last year

he left last year (or even very end of 2023) 
https://www.friendsoffootballnz.com/2024/02/09/former-all-white-rory-fallon-replaces-stu-jacobs-as-upper-hutt-city-coach/

observerfromuh

AucklandPhoenix

Is this the first staff member poached?

Won't be the last IMO. 

This thread is ridiculous, my point is Dome is failing on every footballing metric and someone else should be given a crack, but its all good lets keep him as he can set up a charter school and hire football coaches from areas without a single professional team (aka the next step is to move to WGTN or AKLD).

And we understand your point, however he is not solely measured on the footballing side of the business.

I’m not a fan of Dome, and in my personal view he’s falling the Nix and the fans, but I also concede I have no idea what he has been given as targets to meet, available money to meet these targets as well as still run the club, for all I know it’s his ability to keep the lights on with the smell of a oily rag that keeps us having a professional team and him in a job, so better the devil you no I guess, I’d rather have the Nix then not have them. They may make me angry, get me depressed, frustrate the shark out of me, but god damn I still love them at the end of day.
I would be more interested in chief having a “ Ernie Merrick moment “ and having an honest conversation with himself about if he is the man to lead the Nix after xmas, does he believe he can turn things round do the players believe in him and what he’s trying to do, and if the answer is no then resign get a interim coach in (Ifill and Greenie?) and seeing what they can do with the back end of the season.
Just my thoughts, some may agree some may rubbish me but at the end of the day the majority of us are here because we are “Wellington till I die”

Well said,
on the interim coach, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Ifill does not have the necessary coaching badges to be an A league coach, even interim coach.
Greenie does....
https://wellingtonphoenix.com/news/greenacre-secures-top-coaching-licence/
but he chose not to apply for the job when Italiano was hired as he wanted to focus on the academy.

Greenacre may not have the ambition for the head coach job at this time of his life. He probably enjoys his current life style and is all in for a more secure job at the academy.

number8

Greenacre may not have the ambition for the head coach job at this time of his life. He probably enjoys his current life style and is all in for a more secure job at the academy.

Good point on the job security: if he did replace Chiefy, what would his future prospects be with the Nix?

He’d coach the men for some number of seasons, possibly a small number if results didn’t improve, but after that what options would he have? Move over to coach the women if he had a good track record and Bev left, become Academy Director if Emma left, or be promoted to Director of Football if Gilly moved on or got pushed?

None of those are guaranteed even if he did want them (and I have no idea what he wants), so it feels like head coach could easily be the last thing he does with the club.

Reading about the 5 year ban for Clayton Lewis for spot fixing and some very harsh reactions of some of the fans here in the forum.
What's their take on Ifill as a head coach. He has known gambling addiction and bet on himself why playing for us. He must be clearly out of contest for the job for moral reasons?
(Do not answer, just bit of trolling)

Some context, Nix ain’t the only club with record low crowds

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1470328171761417&set=a.740537201407188&type=3

image.png 1.73 MB

This is a small sample size, not sure how it will turn out

change-year-over-year.png 79.06 KB

     

Jessie Merino

This all sounds remarkably like the animosity that swiftly developed between staunch ACFC supporters (i.e. the rump of Bloc 5/Knights/Kingz fans who found solace at Kiwitea St.) and the original YF. I had no idea that within the capital there was similar animosity between "the old guard" and "the upstarts".
Thanks for filling me in.

i was fairly involved at the time and can honestly say that i was blown away by the lack of animosity and the way the football community came together to get behind the phoenix in 2007. 

a similar vibe was evident when team wellington was formed. friday nights at newtown had big crowds of local players from different clubs and communities mixing.

there will always be smart arses and negativity, but from what i observed it was close to non-existent. this was certainly not what i expected to see either.

number8

This is a small sample size, not sure how it will turn out

change-year-over-year.png 79.06 KB

Reasons:
1) Covid disruptions
2) Leaving Fox = No media exposure/advertising
3) Cost of living
4) WU and MacArthur were the wrong expansion teams
5) General overall negativity around the league for years

6) Just a lot less money around the league in general, especially once the Fox Sports TV rights deal finished. So end of the high profile marquees, less spent of marketing, and just an overall general feeling the League's peak years are already over.

The league now has a younger player, more development feel about it. Almost like the NSL once was. Something I don't mind too much.

But you contrast that with the NRL and AFL, where each new media rights deal is bigger than the last, and the marketing reach seems to only continue to grow. As Alen Stajčić said in his little post game rant a few weeks back, most of the reporting on the NRL is slanted as very positive.

InsulinMachine

number8

This is a small sample size, not sure how it will turn out

change-year-over-year.png 79.06 KB

Reasons:
1) Covid disruptions
2) Leaving Fox = No media exposure/advertising
3) Cost of living
4) WU and MacArthur were the wrong expansion teams
5) General overall negativity around the league for years

 
I forgot to note, this is change from last season to this season, I guess it and overall trend.
3090 and 3030 in the last two home games is bad, only the hardcore fans are coming, to be honest the fever zone looks a bit deserted as well. I did not renew my season pass as I wanted change in the club I voted with my money.

Even though the first one only attracted 12k, Wellington are lucky they have two derbies this year.

Without those two games, that average will be beyond shocking.

theprof

observerfromuh

AucklandPhoenix

Is this the first staff member poached?

Won't be the last IMO. 

This thread is ridiculous, my point is Dome is failing on every footballing metric and someone else should be given a crack, but its all good lets keep him as he can set up a charter school and hire football coaches from areas without a single professional team (aka the next step is to move to WGTN or AKLD).

And we understand your point, however he is not solely measured on the footballing side of the business.

 My take is that when he started as GM, making charter schools and failed bids into other leagues probably wasn't in the JD and success points. I agree with YellowAndBlack too, but it would be refreshing to see someone have a shot and bring new ideas to the club on a sporting side of things.

I just want to know if there’s a model structure somewhere that can be pointed to as what we want. I don’t think there’s much new under the sun in football tbh.

I’m always hearing about these new ideas in other industries and they end up as the gig economy, just giving on monopolist competitive advantage and removing rights from workers. 
Or it’s all these different cyber currencies. Not always one that can be emulated or that is ethical or legal. 

I guess it would be good to see more qualified coaches/managers emerging from our academy too!m. But I guess that’s a bit like chasing the throne too…there can only be one Phoenix manager at any one time and if any too talented option is coming up fast in the rear view mirror, they’re a destabilising force. 

But yeh outside of, kinda what we’ve got with a few more fans and trophies, I’m not sure what we’re aiming for…

More reports using consultants? That requires ===>Richer owners? 
A richer city? A move to Hamiltron?

What’s needed is a couple of big new industries that requires a lot of workers near or in Welly! Or Taika to come back and buy out Sir Peter and crank the Weta fires in a new direction…

Or a part sell off to the fans German style? Not that I know much about that.

Industries are becoming less people based and the old adage about economies existing because people trade may becoming less true as well!  Economies exist so oligarch dragons can hoard and send models to into space. 

can I ask are you Dome in or out?

observerfromuh

can I ask are you Dome in or out?

To be Dome out I’d want to know- why? What is the benefit of the new guy or gal or what egregious fault has Domey committed? 

Sometimes new for new’s sake is a thing that gives energy. 

But also not necessarily. Things can get worse. I don’t want no monorail.

observerfromuh

theprof

observerfromuh

AucklandPhoenix

Is this the first staff member poached?

Won't be the last IMO. 

This thread is ridiculous, my point is Dome is failing on every footballing metric and someone else should be given a crack, but its all good lets keep him as he can set up a charter school and hire football coaches from areas without a single professional team (aka the next step is to move to WGTN or AKLD).

And we understand your point, however he is not solely measured on the footballing side of the business.

 My take is that when he started as GM, making charter schools and failed bids into other leagues probably wasn't in the JD and success points. I agree with YellowAndBlack too, but it would be refreshing to see someone have a shot and bring new ideas to the club on a sporting side of things.

how well managed do you think the club is? do you think the corporate deals are good value? are our teams, academies, and business units appropriately staffed? how are our deals to use facilities/stadiums? what about community programmes like football for all, charity drives like for wellington city mission, and charity strip (this year for Ronald McDonald house I think)? 

Is part of the lack of enthusiasm for the football due to a flat economy or perhaps, probably a worse one in Wellington? End of the day it’s a luxury entertainment product (or should be!). 

I remember going to the football in big groups of enthusiastic people, including new Weta guys. And people stopped to ask us the score. 

Part of the buzz was the football, but it was also the buzz of the city really doing some awesome things. And having a bit of cash to enjoy.

Most of the lack of enthusiasm is because NZ sports fans only like winners, and the Nix men have always been losers and this has finally been put into stark relief by the arrival of AFC. There is nowhere left to hide. There aren't enough hardcore fans to sustain the club. The Nix need the men's team to be successful to survive.

Question is, does anybody believe that Domey can lead the men's team towards success?