WPM 2023/24 Squad Speculation, Confirmation and Mutual Termination

Ryan

The quote doesn't have any real merit on us though because our coaches don't complain about the budget, when Merick was here he said he had the budget to win the competition and Talay has said he doesn't make excuses for the performance. Some fans complain, but the club doesn't.

I didn't personally *think* it was ever the budget that was the real issue, but when I go the Sherlock Holmes route - that when you eliminate all the "financial/material" reasons why we don't crack on and win silverware, what is left are intangibles like club/player culture - I get told I should just fudge off from the forums :D

I think the season where we had it all about right - especially getting alot out of our visa players, was 19/20 - Talay's first in charge. Taylor, Hooper, Ball, Davila & Steinmann.

We were on track to finish 3rd, maybe even 2nd, and host a home playoff(s), pre Covid. That's when we could have done what CCM have done this season and made the big dance. No gtee would have overcome either SFC or Melb City to win the toilet seat, but the Nix were an in form team March 2020.

It's up to Chiefy to find that magic mix. Apparently he (not Uffie) uncovered some of the Nix's better visa players of recent times. But he will be hamstrung there if Ball & Wotton are on the wane. Crucial for the team that they have better seasons each in 23/24, plus Kraev is more 2022 than 2023.

Stating the obvious, but it's more about getting the player mix right, than any real club/culture issues. Especially nowadays when off the field the club are well run. Just read Zawada's recent comments on the Nix.

coochiee

It not just their Academy though. Vukovic is 38. Kaltak was overlooked by the Nix. 
McGarry was struggling for game time in Welly. Roux got dumped by the VUC, and yes looked like becoming a NPL player.

Some of the young kids like Triantis & Silvera have come through the Academies at other ALM clubs. They are getting alot out of their visa players. Cummings maybe a Socceroo but he's basically a visa.

Presumably CCM's budget is mid ALM range at best. Montgomery has done a great job.

When they played us this year Montgomery said something about our budget being a good budget, the way he said it sounded like it was more than them. I wouldn't be surprised if they're bottom 3 or 4 in budgets.

Who do we think would be the 2 or 3 teams with a budget less than CCM? I am struggling. Are they in fact likely last?

Jets have no owner, who knows with Roar and Glory as they've got unpredictable owners, but both squads are fairly week.

You poor thing....

Doloras

Ryan

The quote doesn't have any real merit on us though because our coaches don't complain about the budget, when Merick was here he said he had the budget to win the competition and Talay has said he doesn't make excuses for the performance. Some fans complain, but the club doesn't.

I didn't personally *think* it was ever the budget that was the real issue, but when I go the Sherlock Holmes route - that when you eliminate all the "financial/material" reasons why we don't crack on and win silverware, what is left are intangibles like club/player culture - I get told I should just fudge off from the forums :D

Napier Phoenix

You poor thing....

Doloras

Ryan

The quote doesn't have any real merit on us though because our coaches don't complain about the budget, when Merick was here he said he had the budget to win the competition and Talay has said he doesn't make excuses for the performance. Some fans complain, but the club doesn't.

I didn't personally *think* it was ever the budget that was the real issue, but when I go the Sherlock Holmes route - that when you eliminate all the "financial/material" reasons why we don't crack on and win silverware, what is left are intangibles like club/player culture - I get told I should just fudge off from the forums :D

The war cry of bitter Karens everywhere

Doloras

Napier Phoenix

You poor thing....

Doloras

Ryan

The quote doesn't have any real merit on us though because our coaches don't complain about the budget, when Merick was here he said he had the budget to win the competition and Talay has said he doesn't make excuses for the performance. Some fans complain, but the club doesn't.

I didn't personally *think* it was ever the budget that was the real issue, but when I go the Sherlock Holmes route - that when you eliminate all the "financial/material" reasons why we don't crack on and win silverware, what is left are intangibles like club/player culture - I get told I should just fudge off from the forums :D

The war cry of bitter Karens everywhere

Have you told Nelfoos and Napier that you’re spoken for? 

Im getting bored already. 

How about we sign a well known favorite and see how he goes at the back.

Lasogga available?

I'll regret this when I wake up.
This is my opinion. We have a great team thanks mostly to Talay. Ball is an amazingly determined player. Wooton is great if he can keep fit. Zawada (hopefully stays). Payne-Good. Alex Pausen can be really good, more than competitive with Sail. Sutton is amazing. 

The reason Talay will never be a great coach is his Man Management.  Totally inept.
Critical Players to our team:
Kraev
Pennington 
Surman
Old
Four quality players. Talay destroyed them. Like an over enthusiastic parent  he tried to kick every ball for them on the touchline, then subs them for a mistake or not doing what HE was thinking.
If Chiefy has the skills that Talay clearly doesn't, then we'll have an excellent next season.
Tactics: forget. Any qualified coach knows the tactics and variations. Man Management is the critical component to a winning team, given that you have the right players.
Can't wait....

Even Ben Waine just needed to escape (my opinion).

While I'd be frustrated being micromanaged during the game. Player statements don't back that up, Zawada has said multiple times that Ufuk is the best coach he's ever worked with, for instance

I take more notice of statements like that when the player is no longer being coached by the coach.

Ryan

While I'd be frustrated being micromanaged during the game. Player statements don't back that up, Zawada has said multiple times that Ufuk is the best coach he's ever worked with, for instance

Ryan

While I'd be frustrated being micromanaged during the game. Player statements don't back that up, Zawada has said multiple times that Ufuk is the best coach he's ever worked with, for instance

Depends on the player though, Zawada strikes me as a pretty tough guy (based on some interview comments about his father and playing in Poland) he isn't going to get down because a coach swears or yells at him. So maybe his 'best coach' comments are about tactics, which isn't the same as man management.

So maybe his tolerance is higher, or his style of play suits the coaches tactics better so therefore he rates Ufuk higher.

Different players need the coach to adapt differently to what they need - which wasn't Ufuk's strong point, which I think is Panda's point.

siac

Ryan

While I'd be frustrated being micromanaged during the game. Player statements don't back that up, Zawada has said multiple times that Ufuk is the best coach he's ever worked with, for instance

Depends on the player though, Zawada strikes me as a pretty tough guy (based on some interview comments about his father and playing in Poland) he isn't going to get down because a coach swears or yells at him. So maybe his 'best coach' comments are about tactics, which isn't the same as man management.

So maybe his tolerance is higher, or his style of play suits the coaches tactics better so therefore he rates Ufuk higher.

Different players need the coach to adapt differently to what they need - which wasn't Ufuk's strong point, which I think is Panda's point.

There's somewhat of a spectrum in coaching - on one end, you have a coach who forces players to rigidly fit into his tactical style regardless of their fit, and on the other you have more flexible coaches who base their style of play around what they have at hand.

Obvious pros and cons to both of these, and Ufuk definitely strikes me as quite the former

Napier Phoenix

I take more notice of statements like that when the player is no longer being coached by the coach.

Ryan

While I'd be frustrated being micromanaged during the game. Player statements don't back that up, Zawada has said multiple times that Ufuk is the best coach he's ever worked with, for instance

He's not though. He made similar statements to Polish media after the season finished.

Talay ruined McGarry - but McGarry smart enough to move on and look where he is now!. Other young players should've done the same thing under Talay - people say Talay gave these kids a chance but thats one thing....another thing is the treatment of them. Talay came across as an old school bully or bad sideline parent.

Really hope Surman gets a fair crack. Decent player! 

I thought Talay was a great coach for the Nix and did exceedingly well through the whole covid period and at times we played some great football under him (not this season though). After 4 years,  it was definitely time for him to move on. His structure particularly the 4222 and tactics were pretty well found out and easily exploited and countered this season by most teams exposing the weaknesses of that system. Particularly down the flanks. 
I'm looking forward to a fresh start under Chiefy.

mrsmiis

siac

Ryan

While I'd be frustrated being micromanaged during the game. Player statements don't back that up, Zawada has said multiple times that Ufuk is the best coach he's ever worked with, for instance

Depends on the player though, Zawada strikes me as a pretty tough guy (based on some interview comments about his father and playing in Poland) he isn't going to get down because a coach swears or yells at him. So maybe his 'best coach' comments are about tactics, which isn't the same as man management.

So maybe his tolerance is higher, or his style of play suits the coaches tactics better so therefore he rates Ufuk higher.

Different players need the coach to adapt differently to what they need - which wasn't Ufuk's strong point, which I think is Panda's point.

There's somewhat of a spectrum in coaching - on one end, you have a coach who forces players to rigidly fit into his tactical style regardless of their fit, and on the other you have more flexible coaches who base their style of play around what they have at hand.

Obvious pros and cons to both of these, and Ufuk definitely strikes me as quite the former

Interesting comment about flexibility of coaches, because I think Montgomery is the latter compared to a rigid Ufuk - and look how well CCM are doing with likely a similar budget to ours. McGarry has scored some great goals at CCM where he is given some freedom, compared to at the Nix or Jets.

as an aside, your average a-league coach is a brawler. aggression and bluster are a big part of their skill set, as well as a pretty straight forward vocabulary. 

it is interesting that a-league seems to go for this type right now, as opposed to the more scientific, thoughful, process coaches like ernie merrick. 

dario vidosic is of course the latter. i wonder if nick montgomery is moving from the former to the latter. he seems to have calmed a tad. although my thoughts might be distorted by the overall high anger levels most coaches in the league.

mcgarry's an interesting one. so much talent, but not really used at the nix. fitness was an issue but other than that i don't undertsnd how he was treated. we don't really know what happens at training (well, @LG might).

mcgarry had the freedom of the left flank at the phoenix. like sutton, he didn't really have to defend much, thanks to the double pivot talay deployed deep in midfield. in theory it should have gone well, but talay did not seem to back him. it's great to see him playing so well at CCM

Zawada had the team focused around him with his best yet goal return! I’d think the coach was decent too…

On the other hand we mentioned McGarry. Compare him to Louis Fenton. McGarry has shown himself to be a good player, but as an attacker pushed backwards when used in a narrow tactical way. Fenton was quite an adaptable player and was used by several coaches. 

I think Talay tried to change up things this season, and it didn’t quite work compared to other previous years which made it harder to keep everyone on board. And he was under a lot more pressure with it being his final season to produce something. 

Showtime Nixie

Talay ruined McGarry - but McGarry smart enough to move on and look where he is now!. Other young players should've done the same thing under Talay - people say Talay gave these kids a chance but thats one thing....another thing is the treatment of them. Talay came across as an old school bully or bad sideline parent.

Really hope Surman gets a fair crack. Decent player! 

Talay coached him at Wee Nix and in the Netherlands? 

I hate to be doom and gloom but have we accounted for the Mrs Zawada factor in the will he stay or will he go discussion?

We all know she has just become a mum.  Where is she at in being thousands of KMs from her family and support networks when they are in Wellington?  With them being back home right now, how strong is that magnet in getting her and the baby to come from the Polish summer back to Wellington winter when pre season training starts up again?

This forum sometimes, not only are we using extremely emotive language (players being ruined? Far out) we're also flat out inventing things to be upset about with zero justification and evidence.

Well, it is a very long off season! But with the paucity of genuine sagas on here (McG the first, Horus, Hrafnkel, Lasogga even) I’ve had to supplement it by watching D and D games online. 

Anyone checked back on all the players Chief has ever worked with?

Terry Antonis confirmed released by WSW. Don't think there's much chance of us getting him, but I thought the same thing about Ugarkovic last year. Would make me feel a lot better about our CM depth

siac

mrsmiis

siac

Ryan

While I'd be frustrated being micromanaged during the game. Player statements don't back that up, Zawada has said multiple times that Ufuk is the best coach he's ever worked with, for instance

Depends on the player though, Zawada strikes me as a pretty tough guy (based on some interview comments about his father and playing in Poland) he isn't going to get down because a coach swears or yells at him. So maybe his 'best coach' comments are about tactics, which isn't the same as man management.

So maybe his tolerance is higher, or his style of play suits the coaches tactics better so therefore he rates Ufuk higher.

Different players need the coach to adapt differently to what they need - which wasn't Ufuk's strong point, which I think is Panda's point.

There's somewhat of a spectrum in coaching - on one end, you have a coach who forces players to rigidly fit into his tactical style regardless of their fit, and on the other you have more flexible coaches who base their style of play around what they have at hand.

Obvious pros and cons to both of these, and Ufuk definitely strikes me as quite the former

Interesting comment about flexibility of coaches, because I think Montgomery is the latter compared to a rigid Ufuk - and look how well CCM are doing with likely a similar budget to ours. McGarry has scored some great goals at CCM where he is given some freedom, compared to at the Nix or Jets.

Yep - their very loose interpretation of a 4-4-2 is working wonders. Look at guys like Tulio, Silvera, Nisbet etc. and what they're able to do

Ufuk's 4-2-2-2 allowed players to roam, but under strict supervision for better or worse

dunnix

Terry Antonis confirmed released by WSW. Don't think there's much chance of us getting him, but I thought the same thing about Ugarkovic last year. Would make me feel a lot better about our CM depth

His body doesn’t work anymore. Apparently his father employed some extreme training routines with him as a teen and as a consequence his knees are completely shot.

After watching the u20s, I reckon Conchie is ready for a senior call up. Has looked solid and assured whilst assisting all 3 AWs goals so far.

Walsall Boy

I hate to be doom and gloom but have we accounted for the Mrs Zawada factor in the will he stay or will he go discussion?

We all know she has just become a mum.  Where is she at in being thousands of KMs from her family and support networks when they are in Wellington?  With them being back home right now, how strong is that magnet in getting her and the baby to come from the Polish summer back to Wellington winter when pre season training starts up again?

While I do not know the Zawadas in person, but I understand that the small Polish community in Welly is involved to some degree.  
Interestingly, the Polish Embassy has always been keeping an eye on any "formal" visitors and their welfare, and have a bit of a pastoral care extended to those if needed.  Such was the case with visiting Polish academic staff in NZ etc.  This is not a new thing and happened also with previous ambassadors and their spouses, very down to earth contacts with no airs or graces.   Consular staff were often harder to talk to and get things sorted than the top people (personal experience).

How was Ben Wallace this morning? I thought he looked lively off the bench in the first game. Could he push for a senior or scholarship deal?

RR

How was Ben Wallace this morning? I thought he looked lively off the bench in the first game. Could he push for a senior or scholarship deal?

Scored a nice goal, but other than that didn't stand out in either a postive or negative way.

There were already hints Zawada might leave..
Now there is a specific club rumoured to be interested.
Writing.. Wall..
Smoke.. Fire..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/132140661/wellington-phoenix-star-oskar-zawada-targeted-by-european-club--report

If Zawada does go, I’d like us to sign Márk Koszta in his place.

Not as tall, but still 186cm. Has scored 8 in 13 games on loan in Israel this season. A goal every 136’ or about 0.66 goals per 90.

His loan expires on June 30 and so does his permanent contract at parent club Torpedo Moscow. Still only 26 years old and he also had a failed stint in Korea. Seems like an apt replacement should it come to that.

Anyone have any ideas what Joe Champness is up to? The last time on the pitch was Oman almost a year ago. 

Bullion

Anyone have any ideas what Joe Champness is up to? The last time on the pitch was Oman almost a year ago. 

A riddle wrapped in a mystery. As a guess he's ditched football again for music.
Only update seemed to be some news out of FIFA on his legal case against his old Turkish club Giresunspor.

Once contacted a guy I know a little, who's son is in the AWs. Even he had no idea where Champness was at.

Shame as with his pace, and tricky feet he was a point of difference, if still having many 'work ons'.

coochiee

Bullion

Anyone have any ideas what Joe Champness is up to? The last time on the pitch was Oman almost a year ago. 

A riddle wrapped in a mystery. As a guess he's ditched football again for music.
Only update seemed to be some news out of FIFA on his legal case against his old Turkish club Giresunspor.

Once contacted a guy I know a little, who's son is in the AWs. Even he had no idea.

Shame as with his pace, and tricky feet he was a point of difference, if still having many 'work ons'.

He's released two songs recently one last year and one this year so not really going all in with it in terms of output and both songs not really having that much traction. Surely he could manage both music and football at the same time. Memphis Depay seems to do it and he's playing at the top level. 
Maybe his heart just isn't in football anymore but even if it's not your passion it's still a good-paying job. So I'm guessing its more down to not wanting to put in the work/the stress involved playing a pro sport.

Bullion

Anyone have any ideas what Joe Champness is up to? The last time on the pitch was Oman almost a year ago. 

 I saw he won his court case against his old club and was awarded a little over one million euros. Seems he hasn't played since. It always seemed like he was more keen on being a musician than a footballer (which is fine if thats what he's into), so wouldnt surprise me at all if his plan was to use his court winnings to try fund a career as a DJ/musician

Watched that classic Nix v CCM they they put up online. 

We’re really missing some club men: Brown, Ifill, Greenacre, Daniel, Manny, Leo (?)and basically Durante and Lia saw out their careers with the club. 

I know there’s been a pivot to a focus on youth and trying to make transfer sales, but then fans sense that loyalty and solidity at the club or its absence. Maybe David Ball is an attempt and Taylor retired after he left us. 
But it’s a big difference to the early years imo and perhaps some of the glue that was missing or caused a shock at Oli and Lewis leaving and Elliot having his contract offer withdrawn. A different league perhaps, but none of these guys were guys we thought would turn out for other A league clubs. 

You only know their "club men" after the fact but good candidates in recent years include Rufer, Ball, Fenton, Taylor, Payne. You can also include the likes of Ollie because of the players you listed Bertos, Daniel, Manny, Durante, Lia, all continued their professional careers outside of the nix (most turning out for other a league clubs).  Only Ifill (through injury), Brown, and Greenacre actually retired here.

I think you're looking at those teams through the lens of nostalgia and we've got quite a lot of players who are committed to the club. Maybe even more than back then, some of these players actually grew up fans then came up through the academy, the club has been part of their lives their whole lives.

A player like Rufer and before him Fenton might play his entire career at the one club.

I’m arguing that the commitment to the club of Daniel and Browny or Siggie for example was obvious and this fed through to the other players on the field and to the fans. (I included some who had coda to their career elsewhere, but gave their best years to the Nix.)

Rufer did lift the team temporarily when he came back from injury this season the way those others mentioned could. 

I remember Daniel having a corner and Durante getting an aisle named after him. I don’t think we’ve anyone that committed or beloved, or as consequential, in a good way, on our results currently. Lewis or Oli (and perhaps Elliot) could have been that kind of player, and I think some of us were shocked they weren’t. 

I think it’s the personality of the team. I never once worried that Ifill might head to the Jets or Victory. Not sure why in hindsight! I’m sure there were offers.