WPM R26 vs Melbourne Victory | Sat 12th Apr | 5:00pm | RoF / Sky Sports 5

Sutton and Rufer had poor games???

Maybe I was in some parallel universe watching what i thought was the Phoenix against Victory, but in fact was something else.

kwlap

We are bad and played badly. Yet, we were in a lot of this match. I think Hughes, Woots, Sutts (bar the cross for the goal) and rufs had poor games. If 1/2 of them were on then I'm not sure we would lose tonight. But like most of this season, thats a big 'if'.
 

martinb

reg22

imanixsupporter

Piper could be the natural heir to Chris Wood. Massive physical presence with a knack for scoring goals but doesn't really look like a footballer outside of that. That's pretty much exactly what Wood was starting out. Wasn't until relatively recently that Wood was recognised as anything other than a poacher. 

Wood could always play. Have watched him since age 16/17. I think you're under stating the stages he has passed through to become an excellent Premier Leaague footballer.

If anything he got stereotyped at Burnley, though that team was far from Stoke, but before that I think he played a bit deeper or was more mobile and involved more outside the box. 

I understand what you’re saying, though, he had a rough time and maybe even he forgot some of the talent and touch he had. 

If Piper wants to score a bunch of goals for us I’d be shocked, but he’s already got two and as they say no point saying pigs can’t fly, when you see them catching swallows! He’s done well in patches, with those patches getting more and more regular. A CB with a free role??

I think he’s been bloody great for his first season at this level. Of course he makes mistakes, but he gives everything and makes things happen. And I dont buy the argument that these days there’s no room for Siggy/Tim Brown like players.

Get him signed for next season.

Wild that Piper of all people is clear second in the Nix's top goalscorers list.

Anybody know what the attendance figure was? Wonder how the higher-ups are feeling about two abysmal crowds in a row. It isn't just finals we are missing out on, it's a lot of ticket money due to how poor we have been under Chiefy this season. You'd think at any other club that there'd be no chance he'd be retained with the football and turnouts being as bad as they have been, considering he is coming off contract.  

Screenshot_2025-04-12-20-09-28-86_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.jpg 116.92 KB

This end of season has been better. Not great, But not a disaster. We have picked up points. We have scored some good goals and its been entertaining at times. Losing Chico was a real blow. Its certainly been a season of "what ifs"

"He makes things happen." Nail and head. In a season where scoring chances have been mostly dire (Nix lowest number of shots for any club), Piper does make things happen. Long term he's a CB for me, with the opportunity to play up foward for 10-15 min late cameos in a game, when the Nix are chasing a goal.

I don't really have a strong opinion on whether Chiefy should be retained or not. But VUC definitely man for man had players better (in some cases several levels better) than the Nix.

I mean they had Piscopo,  Hamill & Fornaroli all come off the pine. All very experienced ALM players. The Phoenix Retre and the Weenix kids.

Of the current top 6, I'd say only Western United are a smaller club like the Nix. Otherwise it's probably the 5 clubs with the biggest budgets in the League, and the highest calibre squads. Some thought last year that the reduced paltry APL payout of $530K per club, might close the gap between the bigger and smaller clubs. Seems no that hasn't happened at all.

imanixsupporter

Wild that Piper of all people is clear second in the Nix's top goalscorers list.

Anybody know what the attendance figure was? Wonder how the higher-ups are feeling about two abysmal crowds in a row. It isn't just finals we are missing out on, it's a lot of ticket money due to how poor we have been under Chiefy this season. You'd think at any other club that there'd be no chance he'd be retained with the football and turnouts being as bad as they have been, considering he is coming off contract.  

Screenshot_2025-04-12-20-09-28-86_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.jpg 116.92 KB

No. The Roar and Glory haven't sacked their coaches either. And they are both way below (13 points) the Nix on the table.

And neither Zadkovich or Zdrilić took their club to their best ever season, 12 months ago. They should be being sacked ahead of Chiefy.

Roar crowds are bad - but have been for years now. Glory no idea.

Ok coochiee, I'll amend "any other club" to "any club with an ounce of ambition". 

imanixsupporter

Ok coochiee, I'll amend "any other club" to "any club with an ounce of ambition". 

What does that even mean? 

Very good question from Rollo and a good answer from Chiefy about whether recent results and performances give him hope he can be retained for next season in the press conference, worth checking out.

One thing in particular caught my ear: 

"As a coach you know this has been very challenging for me personally and my coaching staff but I've learned a lot this year you know I've learned uh things that I never envisioned in a million years that would happen especially in a group environment um but I'm better for it"

This seems to be alluding to something extraordinary happening, beyond just a trying football season. Wonder what it is he is talking about.

I don't know how to put it more plainly than that. But if I am honest, I like Chiefy on a personal level (however parasocial) and I don't really want him to leave, even though by rights he probably should. I am expecting him to stay and I hope he does turn it around next season. 

kwlap

imanixsupporter

Ok coochiee, I'll amend "any other club" to "any club with an ounce of ambition". 

What does that even mean? 

Pretty sure Zadkovich’s continued employment is only down to the owners’ complete lack of engagement with the club and its fortunes. Also paying out a contract isn’t a feature of the ‘absolute bare minimum’ investment plan.

coochiee

imanixsupporter

Wild that Piper of all people is clear second in the Nix's top goalscorers list.

Anybody know what the attendance figure was? Wonder how the higher-ups are feeling about two abysmal crowds in a row. It isn't just finals we are missing out on, it's a lot of ticket money due to how poor we have been under Chiefy this season. You'd think at any other club that there'd be no chance he'd be retained with the football and turnouts being as bad as they have been, considering he is coming off contract.  

Screenshot_2025-04-12-20-09-28-86_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.jpg 116.92 KB

No. The Roar and Glory haven't sacked their coaches either. And they are both way below (13 points) the Nix on the table.

And neither Zadkovich or Zdrilić took their club to their best ever season, 12 months ago. They should being sacked ahead of Chiefy.

Roar crowds are bad - but have been for years now. Glory no idea.

reg22

give piper the number 9 shirt next season. the kids got outstanding physicals and game sense. play him up top and let kosta buzz around. keep him away from half spaces where technique matters.

I think it said a bit about Piper when he broke the high line (story of the last twenty), veered towards goals, then showed how he is not the real deal yet by smashing the ball terribly miles over the channel. Could be a future with that - but hard to tell where he will end up given it’s just goalie he ain’t played!

Result is flattering, we had two shots on target. But 2nd half was fun, there was bit of fight on the pitch and the crowd got rowdy.
Attendance was pretty low, felt less than the last game.

We got two absolutely superb goals!

And a fair number of other efforts were a small margin away from being as good.

I'll take that any day over games where we have had no shots on target or even no shots, and little positivity.

Attendance was 5036.

number8

Attendance was 5036.

Yeah, right. Fudging the figures. Closer to 3k.

The stadium does the crowd count. Not the club.

If felt like more than the last game.

crowd was easily 5k. Plenty of bays fullish.
Game was too and fro for a while and we played some ok football for good parts. Two goalkeeping mistakes cost us the draw. Retre (two stunners a season) did what he's done all eyar, nothing ecxept score from distance.
First goal was totally Josh O's error, he actually gets a finger to it, needed to be stronger. The goal from the corner he stood watching and watiing as the ball was met inside his 6 yard box, instead of cming to get the ball he retreats to his line and waits. Horrible decision - I expected better from an 24 year old keeper with is promise. 
I had no expectations of a win, but to concede so quickly was dissappointing, the fight back was nice but we were always coming second in that game.

I thought it looked more than last week on tv, so not surprised it was 5k. 

Havnt seen many comments about him but was very disappointed with some of the effort or should i say lack of effort put in by Sutton. He seemed to give the ball away very easily and there were a couple of times in that 2nd half where he looked like he just couldnt be stuffed chasing the ball down. Have been a fan of his but was disappointed with what i saw from him last nite. 

Agreed. Thought if his head was up and we were going forward, he was pretty handy. But the rest of the match didn't contribute much and took the wrong option more often than not. 

and let not forget this effort or lack thereof from our own captain and a whole bunch of other players.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360643444/phoenix-coach-slams-defensive-effort-after-victory-striker-runs-50-metres-and-scores
Hughes literally acts as a blocker, leading Vergos thrpogh the defense. Rufer follows along avoiding contact for a good 10 meters. So many others had a chance to make the tackle but didnt. One of them needfed to make the tackle, take the yellow and move on. POOR from all of them.

Just because it could be worse doesn't make it ok. We are shark. And its sharky that we seem to be ok with being shark.

coochiee

imanixsupporter

Wild that Piper of all people is clear second in the Nix's top goalscorers list.

Anybody know what the attendance figure was? Wonder how the higher-ups are feeling about two abysmal crowds in a row. It isn't just finals we are missing out on, it's a lot of ticket money due to how poor we have been under Chiefy this season. You'd think at any other club that there'd be no chance he'd be retained with the football and turnouts being as bad as they have been, considering he is coming off contract.  

Screenshot_2025-04-12-20-09-28-86_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.jpg 116.92 KB

No. The Roar and Glory haven't sacked their coaches either. And they are both way below (13 points) the Nix on the table.

And neither Zadkovich or Zdrilić took their club to their best ever season, 12 months ago. They should be being sacked ahead of Chiefy.

Roar crowds are bad - but have been for years now. Glory no idea.

I was just responding to the view that at no other club would Chiefy be retained. But I’d say at the “smaller” less monied clubs like us, Roar, Glory, Jets etc he likely would be, based off the last 2 seasons combined

The bigger more successful clubs the expectations are yes higher. With the smaller clubs I’d say how the coach nurtures young talent is as important as winning games, given the strong focus on promoting within, the need to sell players to stay solvent etc etc

But then saying all that, you still get Stanton leaving the Jets. Though that seems as much about a clash over club funding as anything 

Strange the critics of Sutton, he’s one of the few players who can beat a man and driving the game forward and, he had a great assist. On the side people have a blind eye on Piper who can’t control or pass the ball and only is strong and enthusiastic.

Sutton & Wootton may still be living in Welly, but their minds will already be wandering towards Perth. That's only natural.

They can spin out the cliches about being professionals and still playing this season, but let's be honest they won't be 100% focussed on their current team. Selling cars, terminating leases, enquiring on schools in WA, opening Aus bank accounts their headspaces will be full of moving on distractions. An ALM season that is already effectively over. They are only human.

But they have both been loyal servants to the club. Be nice if the Nix before the final game at home (ironically the Glory) announced that they were both moving on, and the fans could thank them. Even subbing off Wootton (4 seasons at the club) early and giving young Jayden Smith some useful ALM mins.

i've been coming to terms with the phoenix being a football nursery. I've concluded that, at this point, i'm only here out of habit and the fact that i was around when it started.

if this is the path we are taking, it will never end. endless development, no actual results. fluctuations from 6th to last. no thanks.

reg22

i've been coming to terms with the phoenix being a football nursery. I've concluded that, at this point, i'm only here out of habit and the fact that i was around when it started.

if this is the path we are taking, it will never end. endless development, no actual results. fluctuations from 6th to last. no thanks.

How quickly one forgets that we finished 2nd last season.

The nursery system may be commendable but it is costing the Nix big time.

Classic case is the third goal. AFC would not have conceded that. The reason why they wouldn’t have conceded it is not because they are $FC or have a tonne of star players, but simply because they play the percentages and know their limitations as middle aged pros. They try to get the ball into the box while at the same time being organised in defence.

The goal that was conceded came from a throw to the Nix. Deep into the opposition half. AFC would have handed that to De Vries or Sakai on the other side. A deep throw would have occured into the box and someone would have got a knock down and it would have got messy. If defended competently, a rushed kick out. AFC in any case would have had time to set up defensively even if a attacker was found.

The Nix however tied to play like Barcelona passing it amongst themselves on the byline. 9 times out of 10 they lose the ball and are not set up for the counter.

Next season whoever is the coach, they need to know their side’s limitations and play to win. I’m not sure now if that man is Chief.

reg22

i've been coming to terms with the phoenix being a football nursery. I've concluded that, at this point, i'm only here out of habit and the fact that i was around when it started.

if this is the path we are taking, it will never end. endless development, no actual results. fluctuations from 6th to last. no thanks.

Football nursery to me sounds uncomfortably close to a puppy farm.

theprof

reg22

i've been coming to terms with the phoenix being a football nursery. I've concluded that, at this point, i'm only here out of habit and the fact that i was around when it started.

if this is the path we are taking, it will never end. endless development, no actual results. fluctuations from 6th to last. no thanks.

How quickly one forgets that we finished 2nd last season.

hey you, don't belittle my emotions with facts!

theprof

crowd was easily 5k. Plenty of bays fullish.
Game was too and fro for a while and we played some ok football for good parts. Two goalkeeping mistakes cost us the draw. Retre (two stunners a season) did what he's done all eyar, nothing ecxept score from distance.
First goal was totally Josh O's error, he actually gets a finger to it, needed to be stronger. The goal from the corner he stood watching and watiing as the ball was met inside his 6 yard box, instead of cming to get the ball he retreats to his line and waits. Horrible decision - I expected better from an 24 year old keeper with is promise. 
I had no expectations of a win, but to concede so quickly was dissappointing, the fight back was nice but we were always coming second in that game.

You have got to be kidding - wasn't bad on either of those goals and made a heap of saves in the first half when we were just letting them shoot whenever and wherever they wanted.

How about our defending which throughout the game was shocking?

theprof

and let not forget this effort or lack thereof from our own captain and a whole bunch of other players.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360643444/phoenix-coach-slams-defensive-effort-after-victory-striker-runs-50-metres-and-scores
Hughes literally acts as a blocker, leading Vergos thrpogh the defense. Rufer follows along avoiding contact for a good 10 meters. So many others had a chance to make the tackle but didnt. One of them needfed to make the tackle, take the yellow and move on. POOR from all of them.

Why would you need to concede a card when you have 4v1

Well I was leaning towards 'Chiefy Out' about a month ago, I'm back on the fence as it's been less of a chore to watch the team play over the past 3 fixtures. But, it is frustrating that it took us being pretty much out of play-off contention to actually implement a Plan B (e.g. no longer trying to play out from every GK). 

Agreed with a lot of the sentiment around Oluwayemi, he's a brilliant shot stopper, definitely above average in the league in this regard, but seems well below average in every other metric of goalkeeping such as distribution (long and short), handling, and commanding the air. 

Corban Piper was MOTM for me, he was everywhere and despite some people writing him off earlier in the season I do agree with the Siggy 2.0 sentiment. He needs a contract ASAP, however I can just see the management taking their sweet time to announce who's coach next season that by the time that's done he's already in advanced talks with Auckland FC... He could be a good number 9 or CB, but he has quite the engine on him that might be wasted on those positions, maybe not technical enough to be a CM, but could be a box-to-box or maybe even a wingback? 

Not the best of games for Woots or Rufer unfortunately. 

At this point, just play the players we know will be around next season, the more minutes together the more cohesion. 

Feverish

theprof

and let not forget this effort or lack thereof from our own captain and a whole bunch of other players.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360643444/phoenix-coach-slams-defensive-effort-after-victory-striker-runs-50-metres-and-scores
Hughes literally acts as a blocker, leading Vergos thrpogh the defense. Rufer follows along avoiding contact for a good 10 meters. So many others had a chance to make the tackle but didnt. One of them needfed to make the tackle, take the yellow and move on. POOR from all of them.

Why would you need to concede a card when you have 4v1

4v1 sure, how did that work out for us? 4 passive defenders, someone needs to make a tackle. Preferably Hughes who could have effected the tackle legally but at worst a tackle from behind by Rufer to stop the attack before it gets to goal shooting range.

theprof

Feverish

theprof

and let not forget this effort or lack thereof from our own captain and a whole bunch of other players.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360643444/phoenix-coach-slams-defensive-effort-after-victory-striker-runs-50-metres-and-scores
Hughes literally acts as a blocker, leading Vergos thrpogh the defense. Rufer follows along avoiding contact for a good 10 meters. So many others had a chance to make the tackle but didnt. One of them needfed to make the tackle, take the yellow and move on. POOR from all of them.

Why would you need to concede a card when you have 4v1

4v1 sure, how did that work out for us? 4 passive defenders, someone needs to make a tackle. Preferably Hughes who could have effected the tackle legally but at worst a tackle from behind by Rufer to stop the attack before it gets to goal shooting range.

Not sure what you’re on about. Clearly it was shocking defending and should have been snuffed out easily. Saying they should have taken him out is an interesting opinion - unless you think we are so rubbish that we can’t do the basics - in which case it would be fair enough. 

Feverish

theprof

Feverish

theprof

and let not forget this effort or lack thereof from our own captain and a whole bunch of other players.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360643444/phoenix-coach-slams-defensive-effort-after-victory-striker-runs-50-metres-and-scores
Hughes literally acts as a blocker, leading Vergos thrpogh the defense. Rufer follows along avoiding contact for a good 10 meters. So many others had a chance to make the tackle but didnt. One of them needfed to make the tackle, take the yellow and move on. POOR from all of them.

Why would you need to concede a card when you have 4v1

4v1 sure, how did that work out for us? 4 passive defenders, someone needs to make a tackle. Preferably Hughes who could have effected the tackle legally but at worst a tackle from behind by Rufer to stop the attack before it gets to goal shooting range.

Not sure what you’re on about. Clearly it was shocking defending and should have been snuffed out easily. Saying they should have taken him out is an interesting opinion - unless you think we are so rubbish that we can’t do the basics - in which case it would be fair enough. 

My first option would always be for Hughes to make the tackle fairly. However he clearly didnt. Then you have either Wootten or Rufer who are within range to engage the attacking player well before he shoots - for whatever reason neither did. You could see the coach o the sideline pleading with his players to engage but noone did. (does this mean we are rubbish? - no, but all of our defenders failed miserably in that moment). Somone should have taken charge and two of the four involved were senior players in the squad. 
If I was Hughes, instead of running away from the attacking I'm stopping and forcing him to change direction given one of the others around me a chance to take the ball. If I'm Rufer and I'm seeing noone defend I'm attempting the tackle from around the player and wearing the yellow if it comes.
My point is that nothing from a defensive point of view happened in the buildup to that show and something should have! 

On the other hand, my highlights from this weekend were other games (excellent in my opinion) from this round - Perth vs Adelaide, WSW vs the Bitumens and even the Smurfs vs Auckland.  
All very competitive and very good to watch, because of the action and commitment on display (regardless of the results). 
Watching these other games illustrated the point of the quality of imports and the quality of their home-grown talent.  We have tons of catching up to do before the next season.

theprof

Feverish

theprof

Feverish

theprof

and let not forget this effort or lack thereof from our own captain and a whole bunch of other players.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360643444/phoenix-coach-slams-defensive-effort-after-victory-striker-runs-50-metres-and-scores
Hughes literally acts as a blocker, leading Vergos thrpogh the defense. Rufer follows along avoiding contact for a good 10 meters. So many others had a chance to make the tackle but didnt. One of them needfed to make the tackle, take the yellow and move on. POOR from all of them.

Why would you need to concede a card when you have 4v1

4v1 sure, how did that work out for us? 4 passive defenders, someone needs to make a tackle. Preferably Hughes who could have effected the tackle legally but at worst a tackle from behind by Rufer to stop the attack before it gets to goal shooting range.

Not sure what you’re on about. Clearly it was shocking defending and should have been snuffed out easily. Saying they should have taken him out is an interesting opinion - unless you think we are so rubbish that we can’t do the basics - in which case it would be fair enough. 

My first option would always be for Hughes to make the tackle fairly. However he clearly didnt. Then you have either Wootten or Rufer who are within range to engage the attacking player well before he shoots - for whatever reason neither did. You could see the coach o the sideline pleading with his players to engage but noone did. (does this mean we are rubbish? - no, but all of our defenders failed miserably in that moment). Somone should have taken charge and two of the four involved were senior players in the squad. 
If I was Hughes, instead of running away from the attacking I'm stopping and forcing him to change direction given one of the others around me a chance to take the ball. If I'm Rufer and I'm seeing noone defend I'm attempting the tackle from around the player and wearing the yellow if it comes.
My point is that nothing from a defensive point of view happened in the buildup to that show and something should have! 

"Effort or lack thereof of our own captain"

You've accused rufer of being lazy, which is quite insulting to throw at a player who is anything but. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that he's making his tracking run to position himself to collect the ball after a tackle has been made. That is, afterall, his role. The fact that a tackle never came is not on him. And suggesting that he should have dived in for a yellow in this situation is um, a bit daft.

Saying Rufer should have taken a yellow is just 100% hindsight, saying we’d prefer a free kick to a goal - which goes without saying. At the time there was zero percent chance of him needing to think that