[RESCHEDULED] WPM R29 vs Perth Glory | Sunday 4th May | 5:00pm | RoF / Sky Sports 3

Of course the Nix should be looking at AFC, and is there anything the Welly team can replicate. Would be insular stupidty not to.

Like according to a recent AV article, AFC travel to Aussie a day or two before the Nix. If the Phoenix can afford to copy that idea why not. Auckland had a great record on the road in Oztraylia this season.

Other factors like apparently having their squad fit to near EPL standards worth looking at. Plus yes an on average older squad, with lots of experienced guys in that mid-late 20s age range. 

You can't have your new derby rival come in with immediate success, and not at least look at what they are doing differently to you, when you are sans a trophy after 18 long seasons.

If anything, arrival of AFC should be a reason for our club to do some soul-searching as to the reasons for our existence (what needs does our existence satisfy).    "Giving football NZ fans a club to follow" and "giving NZ football kids a pathway to development and gametime"  - we are no monopoly for that, now. 

It would be nice if we could compete on the park against them despite our smaller budget (Western United does).  But if we cannot do even that, we have to do at least some things better than AFC if we are to remain relevant.

Mainland FC

If anything, arrival of AFC should be a reason for our club to do some soul-searching as to the reasons for our existence (what needs does our existence satisfy).    "Giving football NZ fans a club to follow" and "giving NZ football kids a pathway to development and gametime"  - we are no monopoly for that, now. 

But if we are to remain relevant, we have to do at least some things better than AFC.

At the moment a talented young kid knows he's a better chance of debuting earlier in the ALM in his teens at the Nix. The young kids at Auckland got very few mins this season. Corica has a history in the A League of not really giving young players much of a shot.

It wouldn't surprise if it was one big reason why Waikato kid LBS ignored overtures from Auckland to move to Welly.

Any national team U17 kids not signed by either club yet, may look more favourably at the Nix as a place to sign with. Is a point of difference currently.
The NZ U16 team named yesterday I think had 5 kids either not with the Nix, or not with Northern region clubs that have MOUs with Auckland.

Of course if the APL bring in their planned rule of each club must have 6 players under age 20 in their senior ALM squad (Auckland currently with none?), then that changes that dynamic.

coochiee

Of course the Nix should be looking at AFC, and is there anything the Welly team can replicate. Would be insular stupidty not to.

Like according to a recent AV article, AFC travel to Aussie a day or two before the Nix. If the Phoenix can afford to copy that idea why not. Auckland had a great record on the road in Oztraylia this season.

Other factors like apparently having their squad fit to near EPL standards worth looking at. Plus yes an on average older squad, with lots of experienced guys in that mid-late 20s age range. 

You can't have your new derby rival come in with immediate success, and not at least look at what they are doing differently to you, when you are sans a trophy after 18 long seasons.

sure, but I'm not sure if the Nix want to spend (on top of the ALW squad) extra on travel and also negatively impact one of our major sources of revenue the past 5 yrs by not investing (giving game time) to youth. We actually got more points away from home this season, so I'm not sure if you can say it has anything to do with the travel arrangements more than we have just been poor this season.

Ofcourse, if we can gain more from better S&C we should be looking at that.

it's funny how the fitness of the AFC squad is pointed at as being something we didnt have, when last season our squad's fitness was also pointed out as being top class.
I wonder what changed during the season that meant the players fitness wasnt as good

theprof

it's funny how the fitness of the AFC squad is pointed at as being something we didnt have, when last season our squad's fitness was also pointed out as being top class.
I wonder what changed during the season that meant the players fitness wasnt as good

apart from the injuries and illnesses?

Bullion

theprof

it's funny how the fitness of the AFC squad is pointed at as being something we didnt have, when last season our squad's fitness was also pointed out as being top class.
I wonder what changed during the season that meant the players fitness wasnt as good

apart from the injuries and illnesses?

I'm assuming the term fitness is relating to the activity of players during a game - ie the ability to maintain a high press for longer.
Sure AFC seemed to have less injuries than us, their capt wasnt struct down by illness but was injured for a few games. But their intensity of play was way higher than most teams and was sustained for longer.

Our game play was bordering on plodding in comparison. 

Bullion

theprof

it's funny how the fitness of the AFC squad is pointed at as being something we didnt have, when last season our squad's fitness was also pointed out as being top class.
I wonder what changed during the season that meant the players fitness wasnt as good

apart from the injuries and illnesses?

badeep badeep beep beep beep

headline news: football club has players unavailable due to injury. special taskforce set up to find out why.

With I think the game in Adelaide post match Barba was asked about one of the Japanese players cramping up, and basically Kosta said if that’s happening you have to question fitness levels. He was a bit blunt about it

theprof

Bullion

theprof

it's funny how the fitness of the AFC squad is pointed at as being something we didnt have, when last season our squad's fitness was also pointed out as being top class.
I wonder what changed during the season that meant the players fitness wasnt as good

apart from the injuries and illnesses?

I'm assuming the term fitness is relating to the activity of players during a game - ie the ability to maintain a high press for longer.
Sure AFC seemed to have less injuries than us, their capt wasnt struct down by illness but was injured for a few games. But their intensity of play was way higher than most teams and was sustained for longer.

Our game play was bordering on plodding in comparison. 

I felt that many of the players' injuries were not managed as well as they could have been due to the number of injuries in the squad, players coming back a little early and managed during games and likely during the week.

Bullion

theprof

Bullion

theprof

it's funny how the fitness of the AFC squad is pointed at as being something we didnt have, when last season our squad's fitness was also pointed out as being top class.
I wonder what changed during the season that meant the players fitness wasnt as good

apart from the injuries and illnesses?

I'm assuming the term fitness is relating to the activity of players during a game - ie the ability to maintain a high press for longer.
Sure AFC seemed to have less injuries than us, their capt wasnt struct down by illness but was injured for a few games. But their intensity of play was way higher than most teams and was sustained for longer.

Our game play was bordering on plodding in comparison. 

I felt that many of the players' injuries were not managed as well as they could have been due to the number of injuries in the squad, players coming back a little early and managed during games and likely during the week.

well that's on the medical team and the players aint it!

The point i was making about AFC is not that we exactly copy everything they do but to learn from their success. Check out the Youtube interview with their CEO Bekker. The guy is full of ideas on how to run a football club. If Bekker and McFlynn were running the Nix we would be a better club 100%,
even without AFCs bigger budget. If Dome and Gill remain then little will change. Next season is critical for our club. If we get off to a poor start and get pumped at home by AFC then supporters will give up.

austin111

The point i was making about AFC is not that we exactly copy everything they do but to learn from their success. Check out the Youtube interview with their CEO Bekker. The guy is full of ideas on how to run a football club. If Bekker and McFlynn were running the Nix we would be a better club 100%,
even without AFCs bigger budget. If Dome and Gill remain then little will change. Next season is critical for our club. If we get off to a poor start and get pumped at home by AFC then supporters will give up.

Woohoo. Talk about things having turned full circle from pre-season condescension/bravado. You're right. It's going to be very very interesting to see how the next 12 months in NZ pro football plays out.

austin111

The point i was making about AFC is not that we exactly copy everything they do but to learn from their success. Check out the Youtube interview with their CEO Bekker. The guy is full of ideas on how to run a football club. If Bekker and McFlynn were running the Nix we would be a better club 100%,
even without AFCs bigger budget. If Dome and Gill remain then little will change. Next season is critical for our club. If we get off to a poor start and get pumped at home by AFC then supporters will give up.

Have no interest in checking out a Youtube interview with Becker.
Yes agree they have done well with most of what they have done. However their handling of away fans and their complete failure to understand or show any care for what could happen  while ignoring warnings given lead to what we saw against WSW. Then to come out and flat out lie about problems at the Derby game  made them look stupid.
Agree the Nix could do more but also think many arnt aware of the Community work the Nix do and their engagement with schools etc.
Does seem at times as if people want to be super critical of Welnix and Phoenix Mangement and not give them any credit for what has been achieved because despite what some may claim they have achieved plenty.
And no im not just a cheerleader for them im more than happy to call them out on things. 

theprof

Bullion

theprof

Bullion

theprof

it's funny how the fitness of the AFC squad is pointed at as being something we didnt have, when last season our squad's fitness was also pointed out as being top class.
I wonder what changed during the season that meant the players fitness wasnt as good

apart from the injuries and illnesses?

I'm assuming the term fitness is relating to the activity of players during a game - ie the ability to maintain a high press for longer.
Sure AFC seemed to have less injuries than us, their capt wasnt struct down by illness but was injured for a few games. But their intensity of play was way higher than most teams and was sustained for longer.

Our game play was bordering on plodding in comparison. 

I felt that many of the players' injuries were not managed as well as they could have been due to the number of injuries in the squad, players coming back a little early and managed during games and likely during the week.

well that's on the medical team and the players aint it!

actually, from interviews I got the impression chiefy was keen to try and get players back to stop the rot against the best advice from the medical team.

Were we saying how much we loved Melbourne City when Becker was there and how much we loved Sydney when McFlynn was their captain? How we should be more like Melbourne B and Alex Brosque’s gracious team? 

Why are we venerating them now they’re in Auckland? They haven’t changed much. Mucking with crowd stats for a laugh. Meh. 

They’re a slightly nicer bling closer to home and a less hollow multi-club model, probably down to their Mr Folley, considering the way he found his manager at Bournemouth and stuck by him. And that culture has no doubt helped Auckland too. 

They can have Neyder Moreno on their bench and Hiroki Sakai as their RB. That isn’t how the Nix operate currently. As someone pointed out we operate like CCM. Where did they finish? Both of the current underdog academy-reliant teams had a poor season. It sounds like we’ll be revising things a little next year.

We haven’t seen what would happen to AFC under pressure. Their fans have shown themselves at times quite impatient and relatively entitled. They wouldn’t accept, say, the season Sydney or Adelaide had this year. 

The Victory crowd drop off was underlined by the pandemic, but they used to play swaggering or stylish football with a confidence. Now they’re just another team. Auckland beware. 

I do think Chief is quite a different manager, but he needs a bit more in his management team to keep himself supported and everyone a bit happier. And he needs to front somehow to the frustrated 4K who came and  the 3k who couldn’t be bothered with it all at the last game. 

We want to be able to support him, surely. You gotta work hard to keep Nix fans offside, but a lack of goals mixed with the feeling of some ducking of responsibility will do it.

I have no problem with Welnix. They are great owners who pay the bills and give us financial stability. I do have a huge problem with the management. One second place in eighteen years is a huge failure by anyones standards. Yes, they have done well organising the academy. But in terms of results they have failed.  I dont understand why Welnix hasnt held the clubs management responsible and tried to bring in some new management blood with fresh ideas, which is standard business practice.

So from I've been getting from this thread is that we don't want to learn from AFC this season because their fans are big meanies who aren't nice to us and their club took the piss out of us with crowd numbers and signage.

Man we are one soft bunch of supporters. If that's enough to upset some of us then I'd hate to think what a walk down Manners would do.

It's football, real rivalry aren't usually nice. If they are there's no venom and then no reason to care.

austin111

I have no problem with Welnix. They are great owners who pay the bills and give us financial stability. I do have a huge problem with the management. One second place in eighteen years is a huge failure by anyones standards. Yes, they have done well organising the academy. But in terms of results they have failed.  I dont understand why Welnix hasnt held the clubs management responsible and tried to bring in some new management blood with fresh ideas, which is standard business practice.

Who is on the Board now? They had Hickey and Chote originally.  So the football knowledge was there.  Are they now totally reliant on Dome, Gill and Greenacre?

mjp2

austin111

I have no problem with Welnix. They are great owners who pay the bills and give us financial stability. I do have a huge problem with the management. One second place in eighteen years is a huge failure by anyones standards. Yes, they have done well organising the academy. But in terms of results they have failed.  I dont understand why Welnix hasnt held the clubs management responsible and tried to bring in some new management blood with fresh ideas, which is standard business practice.

Who is on the Board now? They had Hickey and Chote originally.  So the football knowledge was there.  Are they now totally reliant on Dome, Gill and Greenacre?

Believe Chote is still there. 

Aucklands approach to the A League will develop. They couldn't go for a whole lot of unproven youth for their first season. They don't have years working with these kids through academies etc to know what they are like, from skill to mentality. They had no choice but to go with experience largely.

Youth will get more of a go moving forward.

A lot of fans on here have come across as very poor losers. Auckland has done very well and we should be happy for them as a NZ team. Well done on their success.

They are not the reason we suck this year - that is down to the coach IMO -  from his poor tactics, man management to his recruitment. Injuries have not helped, but a lot of our misfortune this year is down to the decisions he made.

So stop they don't play youth card, or they had an easy run in to start... it's just weak and pathetic.

WanderingSheep

mjp2

austin111

I have no problem with Welnix. They are great owners who pay the bills and give us financial stability. I do have a huge problem with the management. One second place in eighteen years is a huge failure by anyones standards. Yes, they have done well organising the academy. But in terms of results they have failed.  I dont understand why Welnix hasnt held the clubs management responsible and tried to bring in some new management blood with fresh ideas, which is standard business practice.

Who is on the Board now? They had Hickey and Chote originally.  So the football knowledge was there.  Are they now totally reliant on Dome, Gill and Greenacre?

Believe Chote is still there. 

Greenacre has no input at all....only one to have played professionally...go figure!!

austin111

I have no problem with Welnix. They are great owners who pay the bills and give us financial stability. I do have a huge problem with the management. One second place in eighteen years is a huge failure by anyones standards. Yes, they have done well organising the academy. But in terms of results they have failed.  I dont understand why Welnix hasnt held the clubs management responsible and tried to bring in some new management blood with fresh ideas, which is standard business practice.

imo one of the most insightful posts this year! Huge gratitude to Welnix but as you mention can't fathom why there has not been a management shakeup. Can guarantee that if it was one of Rob Morrisons other business entities management would have been gone long ago! 

Wait I’m confused - should we be channeling the hard-nosed approach of McFlynn and the Port or should we be happy for them when they win?  Which is it?

Should we ask Everton and Sunderland fans how happy they are for their towns respective successes?

Footballtragic

austin111

I have no problem with Welnix. They are great owners who pay the bills and give us financial stability. I do have a huge problem with the management. One second place in eighteen years is a huge failure by anyones standards. Yes, they have done well organising the academy. But in terms of results they have failed.  I dont understand why Welnix hasnt held the clubs management responsible and tried to bring in some new management blood with fresh ideas, which is standard business practice.

imo one of the most insightful posts this year! Huge gratitude to Welnix but as you mention can't fathom why there has not been a management shakeup. Can guarantee that if it was one of Rob Morrisons other business entities management would have been gone long ago! 

maybe we are meeting their expectations of getting into the finals (5 out of the last 7) with a couple of decent runs (Talay and Chiefy 1st seasons) while developing and selling talent, as well as the development of the women's side (which hasn't performed to expectations taking into account relative investment to the league) and I'm sure there are some financial kpis the club targets (which is why we have the two kit setup and as mentioned above continued focus on investing in player development). 

I am with Bullion on this.  What we want as fans may not be exactly what Rob & Co are wanting as business owners.  There is obviously an overlap but to expect full alignment is unrealistic.

Mainland FC

I am with Bullion on this.  What we want as fans may not be exactly what Rob & Co are wanting as business owners.  There is obviously an overlap but to expect full alignment is unrealistic.

Also my understanding is that Rob is in the infrastructure business which is a conservative business model where you don’t make a lot of swerving drastic changes, but try and keep things steady, aiming for long term rewards.

It does rather assume that the 3k aren’t gone, but will come back if we win a few, however. 

martinb

Mainland FC

I am with Bullion on this.  What we want as fans may not be exactly what Rob & Co are wanting as business owners.  There is obviously an overlap but to expect full alignment is unrealistic.

Also my understanding is that Rob is in the infrastructure business which is a conservative business model where you don’t make a lot of swerving drastic changes, but try and keep things steady, aiming for long term rewards.

It does rather assume that the 3k aren’t gone, but will come back if we win a few, however. 

Anecdotally, of the 6 I would say I’ve normally gone to the game on and off with, 3-4 have stopped going and I couldn’t convince them to go at all. I’ve included myself in that as I couldn’t justify going because it was so turgid.  People get out of the habit when there is literally nothing positive about the match day (apart from the beers beforehand). We’ve all said it, but this upcoming season is massive for the club. Falter and they’ll end up like Newcastle or the like.