Vs Mexico 1st Leg Thurs 14th 9:30am SS2

My bad, was referring to the delusional and surprisingly widespread belief ahead of today's game that we could realistically get even a draw at the Azteca. I don't know what people expected - we just don't have the talent to compete at that level yet.

What DIDN'T help was Ricki employing negative tactics (once again) that were unsuited to the players on the pitch. And what DOESN'T help is this continued show of misguided loyalty to players who are CLEARLY NOT the best technical football players that we have available.

The 'kids are too young and inexperienced' argument doesn't wash with me - especially if you ask the question, 'Who is currently playing their football at a higher level, Lochhead and Christie or Tuiloma and Roux ?'

this, the fans have paid money to see the AW's play - whteher there's a chance of qualification or not.......tactics need to change but I think ricki has a point, he wouldn't have been asking his playes not to mark - they were simply not up to the task which is where his responsibility lies - he picked them, they failed to execute the plan - responsibility lies with both players and management. What NZFC does with all this is yet antoerh story

I think most of us were confused by that selection. Especially to start.

So was team selection solely left to Ricki ?

And BT I'd guess.

Weren't we 3-0 down in that game? At the very least, 2-0. When teams sit on a favourable result and don't press us, we can pass it. But so could you and I in that situation. The trick is doing it under pressure. We can't do that.

Ricki Herbert: "It won’t be over until the 90 minutes in Wellington & we’ll be incredibly positive in what we do..."

Ryan ?

For once I decided to avoid the match day angst of posting in the forum while the game is live. The last few days have really been filled with a lot of bollocks (although I completely agree with El Grapaduras long post). Hopefully, its the last we hear of Javier too

There really is not much need for an in-depth post mortem on player v player v player. Regardless who was put out today, the same result would have occurred. We can point the finger at Ricki and we can point the finger at Christie but what did people actually expect? For us to come out, get the ball down and play thinking that everything will be alright, we will dominate possession and all of a sudden discover this one touch game we always knew we had but failed to execute on at altitude in the home of Mexican football? Really? I mean, really???? We are not the fastest or the most skilled on a man for man level so we played team tactics of park it and leave it. We went into it to park the bus and we copped a bombing for that. Good teams score goals and we gave Mexico enough possession to guarantee they were going to score goals given multipliers of time x opportunities x lack of opposition skill x possession at the right end of the pitch. We all knew it was going to take 1 mistake and the potential for the flood gates to open were right there.

Ricki made the right call to park the bus but when we had the ball we may as well have dribbled it into touch for the effectiveness we had save for a 20 minute period to start the 2nd half when Mexico sat off of us (about the time James came on). Ricki didn't coached this team to kick the ball away, or head the ball back in front of goal or any other basic defensive mistakes we committed and anyone that does think that needs to really wake up and remove their bias. Things like that, are player mistakes and the players have to own them. There are definitely some players that could probably wear the microscope more than others in terms of performance but what good is that going to do after the fact - we just got fucked 5-1. Good teams will do that to teams that are not as good regardless who plays and how they play. That's a fact. Granted some of those players should not have been out there for the tactics chosen but I see Raul Blanco was on the bench and he has been our tactical mastermind the last few years. If it was that bad an idea, him and Emblen would have told Ricki so (having met Raul, he is a grumpy fucker but I am certain of this).

Looking to Wednesday, if Ricki rolls out the same old hands in the next game, then he tarnishes his reputation. The largest elephant in the room is that he is gone-burgers so how does he want to go out? Dogged to the end with the same old, same old or just throw it out there. He has the opportunity to put out the team of the future and walk away with some kudos. He has to go with a team that will excite, which generally means attack. I am not one to suggest a team with all out attack but what good will come from defending a 5-1 deficit? Its light as hell on defensive players but its full of ball players. We are not scoring 4 goals against Mexico at home but we can attempt to show off the next lot of talent and say to these guys 'play football and entertain us. Here is your chance'. Mexico wont be playing to kill and we have a better chance of looking like a football team now that the pressure is off Mexico to qualify and the large weight of hope on us is gone.

Moss

Roux, Durante/Sigmund, Smith, Tuiloma (Or you play both Sigmund and Durante and push Smith wide)

Rojas, James, McGlinchy, Kosta

       Brockie, Smeltz

Players that will also be in the future team under a new coach is likely to be Payne, Howieson, Fitzgerald, Boxall, Thomas, Rufer, Ridenton (and the missing Reid). To those that say we have not progressed under Ricki, those names all look bloody familiar to me and I think he has bought through players that has left us with a future team that has a lot of potential. I'll give him credit for that.

The 'Gang of 82' admin team have a bit to answer on the build up to this game along with the last 18 months with the overall management of the national team. Fred de Jong cannot be made the next CEO of NZF. He has shown enough over the last 18 months to show that its not a role for him. Frank van Hattum should feel the heat under his bum as well. The ship is not looking any better under him than it did under John Morris. They will answer for this in due course, of that I am sure. (incidentally, we are charging kids $2k and Fred is snapped in Mexico? Why is he there?)

The 'Class of '82' players they just saw their international career extinguish just like that. In a foot note, the standard line is to say, 'The King is dead. Long live the King' so I would like to thank Ivan, Sigmund, Bertos, Lochhead, Christie, Smeltz, Fallon, Durante, Killen and Ricki for their service to the national team and the fun we have had along the way. Enjoy retirement. The debate really does turn to the next coach. It wont be Emblen as he has no tickets and I think he will stay as the assistant. I think you are likely to see an overseas coach, perhaps someone involved out of Australia.

Smithy, can you keep us posted on any really cheap tickets on Trade Me? I am sure they can be picked up for less than face value (not that I am looking to go). Can we also agree to never have Steve Summer commentate ever again. Just average. He made Dewhurst look like a legend by comparison. When will we ever get Gordon Glen-Watson on TV?

0-1 halftime. Jamaica scored  39" 53" 77"  NZ 55" & 89".

3 - 1 - 6 formation. Bring it on.

I haven't read it all, but you can see what they were trying to do and how it could have workd.

We were always massive underdogs, even before Reid's injury. If we had been able to cling on until half time at 0-0 and then bring on Marco and James in the second half either equal or a goal down, then the game might have been interesting and it would have been the home side under masses of pressure.

As it was there were individual errors between Durante, Moss, Smith and Vicelich, but there could have been so many other goals scored which they defended. 

Playing James and then bringing on Howieson or Clapham might have made a different or it might have made no difference at all.

Reid would definitely have made a difference, but it might not have been a winning difference. The good news is there seems to be a very good team of footballers there. The bad news is that we don't seem to have the coach and set up willing to trust them and we don't play the games to give them a chance to develop as a team.

Lastly, I put part of it down to players who were good pros, or players who were passionate about their country- into this category I would put Tim Brown, Ryan Nelsen, Ben Sigmund and from this game- Chris James. They were fired up, angry when we were doing badly and really, really left nothing on the park. I think this is part of what was missing out there. That said I think Wood showed signs of this too. We missed that spirit in the team somewhat. Think that it was Brown and Nelsen who organised 'One Shot for Glory' and think about the public marketing for this game- nothing, fairly anti-climactic and it showed up in the end. I would have been tempted to play Siggie just for his fire, provided he kept it under control.

anyway- where to from here for NZF? I'm worried it will be Emblen and mediocrity. I say again the players are there, but they need some serious support in terms of games organised and sh*te taken care of off the park.

Remember Emblen was the assistant coach at Honoraria and now here. There are those who will support him. I think with our exciting attacking talent now available we need to be more ambitious.

Testify JV

Will Fifa change the things again and pit us against Uruguay etc in four years time?

But otherwise JV has hit most of the things that I was trying to say and I agree with him.

Excited by the possibilities, worried that like this game we won't be able to realise them.

What we missed:

Tackles made: 20

Last man saving tackles: 2

Tackles won: 80%

Shots blocked: 7

Interceptions: 24

- Winston Reid's defensive record this season for W Ham.

But otherwise JV has hit most of the things that I was trying to say and I agree with him.

Excited by the possibilities, worried that like this game we won't be able to realise them

plus: total clearances: 78

headed clearances: 56

Found this on reddit

* Your wrong

You're a fuckwit Smithy (that's 4 covered).

Yep, do agree that Reid might've been enough to take us by the scruff of the neck back with a 2 or 3-0 loss. The biggest problem for mine was the fact we let them head in 3 goals; unforgivable, really. Wouldn't mind so much if they scored screamers by passing it around us/outpacing us.

Funny that on November 2nd, Herbert said that:

"The only issue with them [Smeltz and Rojas] is they haven't had a lot of football," Herbert said.

... then he picks Christie. He really did lose the plot on that one at some point in the last week.