With Phil Neville and we think a UK passport (Welsh heritage), Surman will be on the radar of UK clubs. I don't think he would be going to Portland if Neville hadn't sold him that narrative.
Hadnt read this before the other transfer thread. Can anyone confirm whether the MLS actually allow sell on clauses? If not, get them to fudge.
I would assume they do sign players with sell on clauses but they would only trigger when a player is sold by the MLS to an overseas club. For intra-league moves, sell on fees in the MLS would be a nightmare to try and work out.
I mean, what is 10% of this trade worth for example?
TRANSFER TRACKER STATUS:Trade
COL receive: Jasper Löffelsend
RSL receive: Up to $100k GAM, int'l spot, SuperDraft pick
So if Surman goes to the MLS and bounces around MLS clubs for the next 15 years, we wouldn't see a dime of any sell on. He would need to transfer outside the MLS for any more money to head our way.
I guess we just have to assume that nix management know what they're doing. "nominal fee" if believed is obviously worth it to them over keeping him for 1 more season if he's already said he isn't going to sign another deal. Personally I think they should throw a deal at him worth at least as much as wootton is on (whatever that is) but I'm not signing the cheques.
A couple of hundred US g might be nominal for Garry Neville, and that would be NZ$330k. And if he's good enough to get a transfer to the UK/Europe we add on to that.
Better than nothing. Look on the bright side of life.
I agree with the comments about Talay screwing us on this one. One of the big plusses of Chief is that he seems to have fully bought into the Welnix business model and, I suspect, gets a buzz about advancing players careers.
We may have chucked away $700k or so on this one, but life is full of learnings.
I think we are putting wayyyy too much emphasis on 'nominal'.
It seems to be used in US articles alot relating to MLS - i.e https://the18.com/en/soccer-entertainment/lists/10-most-expensive-mls-transfer-fees With the quote " The league’s all-time best player, Landon Donovan, only had one transfer fee in his entire career, a nominal $900,000 to move from Bayer Leverkusen to the LA Galaxy."
It’s possible that we got only slightly less than the league disbursement for him which should put things in a different light, particularly if there is a sell on clause and he makes the most of the Brit connection there…
So, are LKH or Hughes ready to step into the starting spot, or are we looking for a new starting CB?
I'd be having Hughes swap in like for like for Surman. Feels light on depth (I guess Payne covers if needed) but you also don't want to stymie the development of Hughes or LKH
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
It's probably better than letting him go for free when his contract expires next year. Plus I'm sure an MLS team's idea of a nominal fee is higher than ours.
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Lets not get into semantics here. Old's was reported as a 7 figure fee, so a million at least. If Surman's nominal fee is anywhere near that then the club have made $6m in player sales in a few months. That's multiple seasons of operational costs covered.
It's probably better than letting him go for free when his contract expires next year. Plus I'm sure an MLS team's idea of a nominal fee is higher than ours.
Also the Herald article calls it a 'Significant fee' which certainly sounds better than nominal fee.
On the USA side they've said nominal and on the NZ side it's now been said as 'significant' which makes it sound like it is just how each side of the transfer considers the fee compared to their budget - at least that's what I'm hoping...
I hope the fee size misunderstanding is like meal portion misunderstanding. When away for work in the USA some years ago I noticed their 'nominal' portions were, well, 'significant' size.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
There were rumors around that Sutton was also a potential sale, but they seem to have died down. Hope it isn't the case, that's too much too soon.
Yeah must be 6 weeks or so ago now, Shaun Gill on the pod re potential sales said there was significant interest in 3 players (presumably Paulsen, Old & Surnam) and some low key interest in a 4th player. You'd think that would be Sutton.
His big shop window is now the Olympics. He's been at the Nix 8 years now (came from Auckland), and is older than Paulsen, Old & Surnam. He could also be keen on a move to Europe. Like Surman his contract expires in 12 months, and as always the Nix will want a fee, rather than letting him go on a free. Any reasonable off and the Nix will take it.
At least in France he'll get to showcase his skills at LB, not shoehorned onto the right side.
So might start season with Payne, Wootton, Hughes & LVH as a backline. Sheridan and Dylan Gardiner on the pine. Not sure who in the reserves is the next LB off the production line, but read Tze Xuan Loke can play both sides. Adam Supyk is now with Welly Olympic. He was in last year's NZ U20s, though seemed to struggle in Argentina. Might get a recall to the Phoenix??
Folks in the Central League thread have been saying good things about Gardiner at CB for the reserves.
Adam Griffiths did a great job with the defence in his first season with the Nix. Trust him to again have the backline well organised, even if Paulsen, Surman and Sutton all leave.
Well good luck to Finn, really hope he can settle in quickly and get plenty of minutes because he's got a huge future ahead of him potentially. Easy to forget he's only 20 after last season where he looked very cool and assured throughout.
It was $1,800,000 in cash for Paulsen, it will be less than that for Old, and probably less than that again for Surman. I suspect the sum total is going to be less than 4 million total, which might just about cover the salary floor for two seasons once you factor in APL's meager yearly contribution. The Nix have other expenses too and also generally lose money on home games, so our costs are only really covered for a season. We may see more in the future from these sales when it comes to add ons and sell on clauses but none of that is guaranteed. theprof
Doloras
theprof
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Lets not get into semantics here. Old's was reported as a 7 figure fee, so a million at least. If Surman's nominal fee is anywhere near that then the club have made $6m in player sales in a few months. That's multiple seasons of operational costs covered.
I think Surman is ready to step into a starting role at most levels, more ready than Old or Paulsen. So I expect a fair fee would be considerable, though of course defenders traditionally are worth less than attackers.
It was $1,800,000 in cash for Paulsen, it will be less than that for Old, and probably less than that again for Surman. I suspect the sum total is going to be less than 4 million total, which might just about cover the salary floor for two seasons once you factor in APL's meager yearly contribution. The Nix have other expenses too and also generally lose money on home games, so our costs are only really covered for a season. We may see more in the future from these sales when it comes to add ons and sell on clauses but none of that is guaranteed. theprof
Doloras
theprof
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Lets not get into semantics here. Old's was reported as a 7 figure fee, so a million at least. If Surman's nominal fee is anywhere near that then the club have made $6m in player sales in a few months. That's multiple seasons of operational costs covered.
Gotta also factor in that Football Australia take a 10% cut of international transfers. So we ain't getting all that cash.
It was $1,800,000 in cash for Paulsen, it will be less than that for Old, and probably less than that again for Surman. I suspect the sum total is going to be less than 4 million total, which might just about cover the salary floor for two seasons once you factor in APL's meager yearly contribution. The Nix have other expenses too and also generally lose money on home games, so our costs are only really covered for a season. We may see more in the future from these sales when it comes to add ons and sell on clauses but none of that is guaranteed. theprof
Doloras
theprof
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Lets not get into semantics here. Old's was reported as a 7 figure fee, so a million at least. If Surman's nominal fee is anywhere near that then the club have made $6m in player sales in a few months. That's multiple seasons of operational costs covered.
Gotta also factor in that Football Australia take a 10% cut of international transfers. So we ain't getting all that cash.
Can they impose that on an NZ team considering they no longer administer the A-League?
I think Surman is ready to step into a starting role at most levels, more ready than Old or Paulsen. So I expect a fair fee would be considerable, though of course defenders traditionally are worth less than attackers.
Read some Portland Timbers fan stuff, that baring injuries Surman is most likely to play for Timbers II in the MLS Next Pro, the rest the of 2024. Likely partly explains why Portland are happy enough he goes to the Olympics.
That's given that when he does get to Oregon in early August, the MLS season will have only 2-3 mths still to go.
But they are excited about him, as most of their CBs are aging.
It was $1,800,000 in cash for Paulsen, it will be less than that for Old, and probably less than that again for Surman. I suspect the sum total is going to be less than 4 million total, which might just about cover the salary floor for two seasons once you factor in APL's meager yearly contribution. The Nix have other expenses too and also generally lose money on home games, so our costs are only really covered for a season. We may see more in the future from these sales when it comes to add ons and sell on clauses but none of that is guaranteed. theprof
Doloras
theprof
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Lets not get into semantics here. Old's was reported as a 7 figure fee, so a million at least. If Surman's nominal fee is anywhere near that then the club have made $6m in player sales in a few months. That's multiple seasons of operational costs covered.
Gotta also factor in that Football Australia take a 10% cut of international transfers. So we ain't getting all that cash.
Can they impose that on an NZ team considering they no longer administer the A-League?
Technically we are an Australian team that resides in NZ, so I assume its still the case (rather than NZF taking a cut). That figure comes from a 22/23 PFA report, so even with independence they get their slice of the pie still.
It was $1,800,000 in cash for Paulsen, it will be less than that for Old, and probably less than that again for Surman. I suspect the sum total is going to be less than 4 million total, which might just about cover the salary floor for two seasons once you factor in APL's meager yearly contribution. The Nix have other expenses too and also generally lose money on home games, so our costs are only really covered for a season. We may see more in the future from these sales when it comes to add ons and sell on clauses but none of that is guaranteed. theprof
Doloras
theprof
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Lets not get into semantics here. Old's was reported as a 7 figure fee, so a million at least. If Surman's nominal fee is anywhere near that then the club have made $6m in player sales in a few months. That's multiple seasons of operational costs covered.
Gotta also factor in that Football Australia take a 10% cut of international transfers. So we ain't getting all that cash.
Can they impose that on an NZ team considering they no longer administer the A-League?
Technically we are an Australian team that resides in NZ, so I assume its still the case (rather than NZF taking a cut). That figure comes from a 22/23 PFA report, so even with independence they get their slice of the pie still.
How much input did they have on say Surman or LKH in the future? Not much I'd gamble.
Our academy back in the day might have had some financial help from FA (read that acronym as you wish), but there will have been next to no financial help with our academy in recent years from them. APL yes, Football Australia No.
If that 10% were to go to the A Leagues sweet as, but football Australia can fudge right off IMO.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites
It was $1,800,000 in cash for Paulsen, it will be less than that for Old, and probably less than that again for Surman. I suspect the sum total is going to be less than 4 million total, which might just about cover the salary floor for two seasons once you factor in APL's meager yearly contribution. The Nix have other expenses too and also generally lose money on home games, so our costs are only really covered for a season. We may see more in the future from these sales when it comes to add ons and sell on clauses but none of that is guaranteed. theprof
Doloras
theprof
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Lets not get into semantics here. Old's was reported as a 7 figure fee, so a million at least. If Surman's nominal fee is anywhere near that then the club have made $6m in player sales in a few months. That's multiple seasons of operational costs covered.
Gotta also factor in that Football Australia take a 10% cut of international transfers. So we ain't getting all that cash.
Can they impose that on an NZ team considering they no longer administer the A-League?
Technically we are an Australian team that resides in NZ, so I assume its still the case (rather than NZF taking a cut). That figure comes from a 22/23 PFA report, so even with independence they get their slice of the pie still.
if we were an Aus club based in NZ we would be eligible for Asian comps, no? I get the 10% fee for FA, they can invest in the game in Aus, but they're not going to invest in NZ.
It was $1,800,000 in cash for Paulsen, it will be less than that for Old, and probably less than that again for Surman. I suspect the sum total is going to be less than 4 million total, which might just about cover the salary floor for two seasons once you factor in APL's meager yearly contribution. The Nix have other expenses too and also generally lose money on home games, so our costs are only really covered for a season. We may see more in the future from these sales when it comes to add ons and sell on clauses but none of that is guaranteed. theprof
Doloras
theprof
Another young gun being purchased is great news for the club financially, it's gonna create some recruitment challenges I'd expect but I'd trust the academy kids and Chief to find replacements for them all. Surman is one I thought we'd sell next season, but I guess given he's been part of the CB pair with Wootton it's not surprising that he's been spotted. LKH at CB will be brilliant, it's more his spot than LB - will mean that Sutton will get a bigger role next season.
"great news financially" does not square with "nominal fee"
Lets not get into semantics here. Old's was reported as a 7 figure fee, so a million at least. If Surman's nominal fee is anywhere near that then the club have made $6m in player sales in a few months. That's multiple seasons of operational costs covered.
Gotta also factor in that Football Australia take a 10% cut of international transfers. So we ain't getting all that cash.
Can they impose that on an NZ team considering they no longer administer the A-League?
Technically we are an Australian team that resides in NZ, so I assume its still the case (rather than NZF taking a cut). That figure comes from a 22/23 PFA report, so even with independence they get their slice of the pie still.
if we were an Aus club based in NZ we would be eligible for Asian comps, no? I get the 10% fee for FA, they can invest in the game in Aus, but they're not going to invest in NZ.
The AFC have said they don't want us competing, and even if we could there is no way we could field a team as most of our players would be considered foreigners. Asian champions league teams can only have 5 foreign players.
Likely the 10% fee is just what FA negotiated with the APL as part of the separation, just like they get board seats and a percentage of revenue.
"It’s understood the three sales will represent the three most expensive outgoing transfers in Phoenix history, rewarding the club for their decision to prioritise youth development much-needed financial injection at a time where annual disruptions have been cut from $2.2 million to a paltry $587,000, leaving clubs to make up a shortfall of approximately $1.6 million just to cover player wages."
"It’s understood the three sales will represent the three most expensive outgoing transfers in Phoenix history, rewarding the club for their decision to prioritise youth development much-needed financial injection at a time where annual disruptions have been cut from $2.2 million to a paltry $587,000, leaving clubs to make up a shortfall of approximately $1.6 million just to cover player wages."
If Rollo is correct, it sounds like Old and Surman's fees will be more than Singh's, which is decent business. I'm glad we are getting decent coin for Surman and it isn't some negligible "nominal" fee due to his contract running down.
