Wellington Phoenix Men

Coaching Angst - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can i just throw something out there, does Ricki have far too much loyalty for the All Whites?

Tim Brown runs around with his head up his ass and is completely useless except those 2 seconds when he pops up and scores a goal, that was ok a few years ago when he did score goals, but he isn't scoring anymore so something needs to change ie bench.

Bertos, Some have already mentioned it, just isn't what he used to be. The only decent thing he has done in the last few years was the corner that got us to the world cup. Not sure how he is still in the team, heres hoping he will (have to) fight when Ifil comes back.

Siggy, always gives his all, even when he shouldn't. But does actually deserve a spot in the starting line up.

Lochy, He hasn't been the same since he had that trial in England. Was lucky we didn't have any other Left Backs. Have seen some glimpses of him returning to his best and actaully joining the attack again, so watch this space.

Pasty, i am not really a fan of his. In the past few years we have had better keepers. But Ricki just has an inability to change the guy inbetween the sticks, so Pasty has had more runs than he needed to, until he got himself injured. I am undecided on Warner atm.

What is with the reluctance to play the young guys in the squad? He hardly gave Kosta a run and look what he has done. He was forced into playing Judas and couldn't find an excuse to drop him. I just think he is very hesitant in playing the young guys who bring so much excitement to the game. I would like to see Cam Lindsey have a run.

I think Ricki needs to have a look at whether he can manage both the Nix and the All Whites. He has said he is coping fine but i beg to differ. He also is very reluctant to change the status quo and shows far to much loyalty to the old boys in the team even when they aren't performing (the All Whites). Brown and Bertos aren't what they used to be and i would like to see them ride the pine for a bit.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We have 3 left backs (Lochhead, Greek and Lindsay) and Ricki hardly played Kosta

I don't like bagging Ricki but I think you have a point.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
auskiwi wrote:
]And since when is 'reasonably' good enough anyway?
Really we should be lifting our standards and expectations.
Still some people are�here are happy with a reasonable game.


Yeah. Everyone should play like Barca and win 95% of their games by pinging the ball around and not letting the opposition have a sniff of the ball.

Actually no i don't mean that at all. What i really meant is f**k off you absolute joke of a man. "Supporter"? Hahaha. Jog on. The team need our support and backing more than ever at this moment. A concept you will never understand.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
HELP wrote:
Can i just throw something out there, does Ricki have far too much loyalty for the All Whites?

Tim Brown runs around with his head up his ass and is completely useless except those 2 seconds when he pops up and scores a goal, that was ok a few years ago when he did score goals, but he isn't scoring anymore so something needs to change ie bench.



Brownie did score against the Jets not so long ago. Agree he could do with some bench time, but him being the vice captain and that the sun shines out of his ass, it won't happen.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Get a new coach and lets see who performs then, when mates rates of work doesn't cut it.

Warner has shown he does not dominate his area like a good keeper should, another poor signing by Ricki.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
auskiwi wrote:
]And since when is 'reasonably' good enough anyway?
Really we should be lifting our standards and expectations.
Still some people are here are happy with a reasonable game.


Yeah. Everyone should play like Barca and win 95% of their games by pinging the ball around and not letting the opposition have a sniff of the ball.

Actually no i don't mean that at all. What i really meant is f**k off you absolute joke of a man. "Supporter"? Hahaha. Jog on. The team need our support and backing more than ever at this moment. A concept you will never understand.


This

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
there are always mitigating circumstances that foil the ability to judge ricki

every season there seems to have been an excuse; first season in the league, no money, terry's finances...

these excuses are valid, but you can't help but feel that he has got away with a lot that other coaches in the league wouldn't have gotten away with at a well resourced club

360footballnews.com

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well yeah but it is equally unfair to assume he'd have us in the same position if such circumstances didn't exist.

So what has he done when he has had adequate time and resources? 2 playoff appearances - one of which got us within 1 game of a grand final. Tegal2011-11-06 22:47:43

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I have said this for the last 2 seasons and now this one. Rickie needs to go. The game on Friday showed yet again that his so-called tactics are abouit 15 years too old. Why he does not play the younger and at most times quicker players is beyound me. Just look at how Kosta has improved since leaving. I suspect that Rojas may also improve. Playing the ball across the back then punting a long ball forward to one of the shortest strikers is no longer on. As for an assistant, I get the feeling the other assistants left because Rickie wouldn't/couldn't listen to they suggestions etc. It is time for a new coach with better tactics. 
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
markho wrote:
I have said this for the last 2 seasons and now this one. Rickie needs to go. The game on Friday showed yet again that his so-called tactics are abouit 15 years too old. Why he does not play the younger and at most times quicker players is beyound me. Just look at how Kosta has improved since leaving. I suspect that Rojas may also improve. Playing the ball across the back then punting a long ball forward to one of the shortest strikers is no longer on. As for an assistant, I get the feeling the other assistants left because Rickie wouldn't/couldn't listen to they suggestions etc. It is time for a new coach with better tactics. 
Rickie is a man manager, we have seen the success grow over past seasons when he has had a good assistant. our fitness trainer is not in rickie ear during the game advising on tactical stuff like our past assistant. Who I beleive you will see on TV with small magnetic board discussing playings all the way through the game, and who is he advising now? 

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
markho wrote:
I have said this for the last 2 seasons and now this one. Rickie needs to go. [/QUOTE]
So the two finals appearances in a row weren't enough for you?
markho wrote:
The game on Friday showed yet again that his so-called tactics are abouit 15 years too old.[/QUOTE]
Admittedly the team were out-thought on Friday, with CCM shutting down our wide areas quickly and forcing us to play through the middle or from the back. However its hard to have a Plan B with only 15 players.
[QUOTE=markho]Playing the ball across the back then punting a long ball forward to one of the shortest strikers is no longer on.

Do you actually watch the games? We've been consistently the team with most balls into the box for the last two seasons, continuing into this season. The quality of the crosses is mostly shocking and its debatable as to whether the possession could be used more effectively, however this stat does show real attacking intent.
[QUOTE=markho]As for an assistant, I get the feeling the other assistants left because Rickie wouldn't/couldn't listen to they suggestions etc. 

lolwhut? Now that is one of the most ridiculous assumptions I've ever read...
djtim30002011-11-08 12:29:30
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
To throw another cat among the pigeons (or Turkeys), if we sack Ricki, who replaces him?

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
djtim3000 wrote:
markho wrote:

[QUOTE=markho]Playing the ball across the back then punting a long ball forward to one of the shortest strikers is no longer on.

Do you actually watch the games? We've been consistently the team with most balls into the box for the last two seasons, continuing into this season. The quality of the crosses is mostly shocking and its debatable as to whether the possession could be used more effectively, however this stat does show real attacking intent.
For our first three games this season I don't think we have played as much hoof ball as we have traditionally.  Maybe it's because of Dani?  Wotevs, we don't.
 
Last game in windy conditions we started doing this a bit more which was very odd.  However I actually thought that sometimes this was quite effective.  The lobbed through ball down the wing with Greenie or Dani doing an angled run from the middle put the defence under quite a bit of pressure.  Imagine if we had a real nippy speedster (not a midget, but you know wot I mean)...
 
 

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
To throw another cat among the pigeons (or Turkeys), if we sack Ricki, who replaces him?
Ryan Nelsen?

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He did coach us at the world cup after all. Ricki was just along for the ride. Apparently.

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If he did then we could get the Sky commentators talking about Ryan's GORGEOUS tactical substitutions.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
To throw another cat among the pigeons (or Turkeys), if we sack Ricki, who replaces him?
 
Is a current coach in New zealand that could replace him or would it be an australian or european one?

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Junior82 wrote:
Hard News wrote:
To throw another cat among the pigeons (or Turkeys), if we sack Ricki, who replaces him?
Ryan Nelsen?


Could be a little bit closer to it than you think.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tonya wrote:
Junior82 wrote:
Hard News wrote:
To throw another cat among the pigeons (or Turkeys), if we sack Ricki, who replaces him?
Ryan Nelsen?


Could be a little bit closer to it than you think.

Nelsen will make a terrific manager if he decides to do it; wherever he decides to do it.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
macman wrote:
tonya wrote:
Junior82 wrote:
Hard News wrote:
To throw another cat among the pigeons (or Turkeys), if we sack Ricki, who replaces him?[/QUOTE]

Ryan Nelsen?
[/QUOTE]Could be a little bit closer to it than you think.

Nelsen will make a terrific manager if he decides to do it; wherever he decides to do it.

I think he could be but with examples of Robson, Keane, Ince, Adams etc. it is not such a straightforward conclusion to make.

Fan interview on Blackburn's site on Nelsen:
[quote]Would you take up management when your playing days are over and if so would you take the chance to manage Blackburn Rovers if the opportunity arose? (Fredrik Gabrielsen, Oslo, Norway)

I have started taking my coaching badges, but becoming a manager when I'm older is not something that I've really made as a clear goal. I've got a lot of interests, but managing a team is not something that I've had a clear focus on, so I haven't really given it too much thought.


Also, from the same Blackburn interview:
[quote]Have you been keeping an eye on the football in the A-League? Critics say the quality went up a couple of notches last season, do you agree? Do you intend to finish your career back home - maybe for Wellington Phoenix? (Richard Horrocks, Brisbane)

Yes, I follow the A-League and have got a lot of friends that play for Wellington and for other teams. I will be watching even more now that Brett has gone over there. I think the quality is very good. It's a foundation for young Australians to experience professionalism at an early age and I think the Australian national team is seeing that and reaping the rewards. Do I intend to finish my career back home? At the moment, I'm just concentrating on playing for Blackburn - but the beaches on the Gold Coast do sound appealing!

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
think Lochie has been in some of the best form we've seen him for a while- benefits from Daniel's form and played well in Season 1 when Daniel was a key man for us


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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Blew.2 wrote:
Rickie is a man manager, we have seen the success grow over past seasons when he has had a good assistant. our fitness trainer is not in rickie ear during the game advising on tactical stuff like our past assistant. Who I beleive you will see on TV with small magnetic board discussing playings all the way through the game, and who is he advising now? 
Tend to agree with this, based on what we have seen.  Ricki's built a strong squad that gets on well, has a good work ethic and attitude to the club, but without Trani, Ricki hasn't shown a lot of ability to tactically manage the side on the field and to have then playing with challenging variation.
Was bloody hopeless last week continually seeing crosses to a short single striker, yet again.
Two incidents stood out for me.
 
First, Daniel got into space with the ball about 15m outside the pen area on the left and maybe a bit more from the goal line.  Both time and space on his side.  He took his time, measured a cross, which was nicely cleared by one of the two CDs - who both had it covered.  Plan A foiled again.  Daniel had the time and space to attack the back four inside the pen area and either get deep to the goal line to put it accross the goal or to square it back deeper from there to any player attacking from higher in the box.  But no.  Plan A it was.
 
The second play that stuck out for me was Sanchez got deep to the goal line on the right, just inside the pen area.  I was on the edge of my seat 'cause you could see what might come next.  He pulled the ball back to space a few metres outside the corner of the goal area for Brown to run onto and smash.  Brown was around the pen mark and took plan A, ran the other way to the top centre of the goal area, into the mix with two CDs and Greenacre, expecting another hopeful cross.  Was a potentially great opportunity, Sanchez saw it, Brown saw only Plan A.
 
We might be struggling with the strength of the squad, but we are sure struggling with any inventiveness or variation in the attack as well, and for mine, that's coaching.
Bit of luck Ricki saw it too and they are working on it, but I'm not convinced.
Trani "renowned as a strong tactical technician".  We could do with more of that.
 
Having said that I'm not for seeing Ricki go - that man management is a real strength, so is his calmness, but either he needs to get the side playing with more variation or he needs to get in some support that can help him to acheive that imho.  But post TS, and having lost Tranni on TS's shift, we are rebuilding, so hopefully in time we can find a decent assistant who Ricki values and who can complement Ricki's strengths.  COYN
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We could in theory let Ricki go, but lets ponder some scenarios
 
a: Is there anyone in NZ as qualified? I understand Milicich and Sova are ticketed, so is Willie Geurdsen at ECB. Other names that would have to be involved at the upper level include Emblen, Jacobs, Ramon at ACFC, Tuua, McFarlane, Jones. Would you want any of those coaching the Phoenix? Outside of that, you are kind of scratching (mind you there may be a couple of names I have missed)
 
b: Do you go overseas? Immediately you think of Australia and I am not sure of any decent coaches that are free other than Frankie and Eddie Merrick. Would we want them?
 
c: As someone said, squad harmony. If we bought in a different coach, we could well end up with an Adrian Webster scenario at Perth. Not to say that other coaches are not good man managers but you would have to admit that Ricki is one of the best around currently. You hear of ZERO disharmony in the team. Managing a professional team is not always easy with the egos involved.
 
d: Ricki has got his tickets so it has to be said that he knows something about football. I think, and this has been mentioned, another person to bounce ideas off of would greatly help the situation. It worked when BT turned up for a while. They had Trani. Who has he got now? An AC that is playing 90 mins? Sometimes you cannot see the forest for the trees in front of you and maybe he needs a different perspective.
 
e: Fire him and be damned with the consequences. All things said, alternatives could turn out to be better but you would pick that any aussie coach bought in would go for aussie talent first not knowing what is in our backyard
Jeff Vader2011-11-08 16:17:24

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sack richie benaud

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sack herbie

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sack sherbert. Mmmm sherbert.

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sack herbatron

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sack ricki 'rolled' herbert

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sack Tegal
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sack ricki rourke

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I am also not calling for Rickie to go now, but at some time you would expect there to be some sort of change. If I remember correctly he has one more season on his contract after this season. Depending on results it my be time for a change. He would have had 6 seasons on the trot . This is his team, his lads, but many of them are pushing past 30 years old. The squad will be in need of a major overhall. Maybe after year six it would be time to get someone else in and let them build their own squad.
 
Who else? either someone from within the NZ football structure or an outsider. Dutch coaches seem to be the flavour of the month in Australia. I wouldn't mind if the Nix changed their playing style to more of a continental Dutch style.
 
Or failing that how about getting the NZ SAS guys back from Afganistan and get them to launch a raid on Brisbane to kidnap Postecoglou......we won't release him until he coaches the Nix to back to back titles
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinidane wrote:
I wouldn't mind if the Nix changed their playing style to more of a continental Dutch style.
 
Is there any other Dutch style?
 
 
 

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oh, sorry. I forgot.  There's the de Jong style.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Anyone know if Vicelich has ever said anything about going into coaching? He's got a cool head on his shoulders and plenty of experience (DUTCH experience too)

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
mjp2 wrote:
Blew.2 wrote:
Rickie is a man manager, we have seen the success grow over past seasons when he has had a good assistant. our fitness trainer is not in rickie ear during the game advising on tactical stuff like our past assistant. Who I beleive you will see on TV with small magnetic board discussing playings all the way through the game, and who is he advising now? 
Tend to agree with this, based on what we have seen.  Ricki's built a strong squad that gets on well, has a good work ethic and attitude to the club, but without Trani, Ricki hasn't shown a lot of ability to tactically manage the side on the field and to have then playing with challenging variation.
Was bloody hopeless last week continually seeing crosses to a short single striker, yet again.
Two incidents stood out for me.
 
First, Daniel got into space with the ball about 15m outside the pen area on the left and maybe a bit more from the goal line.  Both time and space on his side.  He took his time, measured a cross, which was nicely cleared by one of the two CDs - who both had it covered.  Plan A foiled again.  Daniel had the time and space to attack the back four inside the pen area and either get deep to the goal line to put it accross the goal or to square it back deeper from there to any player attacking from higher in the box.  But no.  Plan A it was.
 
The second play that stuck out for me was Sanchez got deep to the goal line on the right, just inside the pen area.  I was on the edge of my seat 'cause you could see what might come next.  He pulled the ball back to space a few metres outside the corner of the goal area for Brown to run onto and smash.  Brown was around the pen mark and took plan A, ran the other way to the top centre of the goal area, into the mix with two CDs and Greenacre, expecting another hopeful cross.  Was a potentially great opportunity, Sanchez saw it, Brown saw only Plan A.
 
We might be struggling with the strength of the squad, but we are sure struggling with any inventiveness or variation in the attack as well, and for mine, that's coaching.
Bit of luck Ricki saw it too and they are working on it, but I'm not convinced.
Trani "renowned as a strong tactical technician".  We could do with more of that.
 
Having said that I'm not for seeing Ricki go - that man management is a real strength, so is his calmness, but either he needs to get the side playing with more variation or he needs to get in some support that can help him to acheive that imho.  But post TS, and having lost Tranni on TS's shift, we are rebuilding, so hopefully in time we can find a decent assistant who Ricki values and who can complement Ricki's strengths.  COYN
Hey great post. Not an RH fan. Too defensively minded. But deserves to have an assistant to give this a go, after all the rubbish he and his squad have been thru.
Think the RH issue is more about his other portfolios. Phoenix need a coach with sole focus. Otherwise we'll just never win this thing. That is why we are doing it isn't it - to get to the GF and win it in a year or 2.
 
   
  
 
 
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
BarryZuckerkorn wrote:
Anyone know if Vicelich has ever said anything about going into coaching? He's got a cool head on his shoulders and plenty of experience (DUTCH experience too)

Hell make him an assistant coach now, mad dutch connections? Striker shopping assistant?

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well Adelaide are not going great guns and they have Trani and a coach trying to play a Dutch continental style with Dutch experience, then add in the $ being throw at the squad. Gladly take Ricki over that lot at the moment.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Vicelich has no interest in living in Wellington, by all accounts.
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