Coaching Angst - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This was posted right after JD's "who do you have to root" post, which I considered hilarious. :)

But seriously, I may well quit following the Nix if Miron the Mouth is hired.

Leave no stone unturned. What about female coaches ?

 Remember at the start of the season Ricki we saying (to the surprise of everyone) that this was a transition year? Gareth Morgan has said that Ricki was involved in the panels which discussed playing style and agreed with it.

I think that Ricki is fully part of this change, and has been working on it since the end of last season. However perhaps the Phoenix didn't change enough or reverted to the tried and true when push came to shove therefore Gareth gave him a bit of a kick up the ass.

Things seem to indicate that Ricki is fully into this change and one of the instigators rather than has had it forced on him as others think. In light of this and the planning involved it seems as we are on the first year of a club rebuilding process, and Ricki is part of it.

No

Gabriella Benson .

Managed an English 2nd Division side in 1989-1990 (can't remember the team - some think it was Blackburn Rovers).  Maybe getting on a bit but she turned around the team of journeymen and got them playing some great footy.

Not sure what she is doing now (probably something involving a zimmer frame).

She'll do. Done. 

HN keeps bringing it up and the naysayers must be missing it, but do we not remember the football in the early nix seasons? 

Herbert bought daniel and felipe and tried very hard to play very good football. Felipe left and herbert has never been able to get someone to fill those shoes - he tried with Fred and has always made comments about finding a ball playing attacking midfielder, but it just didnt happen. 

Despite that He found us a winning formula with this team and it generally worked the last 3 seasons.

I don't buy that he's a one-trick wonder at all. Next season will be the test.

Neither do I. Felipe was a one trick pony and teams figured out that if they sat him on his ass in the 1st 5 mins, he disappeared from the game and did nothing.

A ball playing attacking midfielder with vision that can ride rough challenges from A League tacklers and feel ok with zero protection from the referees...

 ...and isn't pulling 100k euros a week already.

And those that are around are getting snapped up as a marquee in some form or another (or sponsored by the FFA)

Actually I thought Gallop would be all over this considering the salary cap stuff with the NRL.

Patrick, no-one who is critical about the style is using season 1 as evidence (we've got enough to go on this year alone).  We're just pointing out the obvious retort to the argument, based on season 1, that Ricki can change style.

Moving on a bit - I think Ricki badly needs a breakout performance playing this new style.  The reason I'm so sceptical about all of this is I'm yet to see us play for 90 minutes in a passing, possession based way and win in a dominant manner - and we need that so badly to get the media/fans etc off the team's back for a while and back on side.  SOmething he can point at and say "this is what we're trying to achieve".  

He's pointed to 30 minutes here, a half there, but since the change I don't think we've led a match (other than the last 10 against the Heart).  We've controlled the ball for periods in games but are really yet to control a match in any significant way

Ignoring me as probably a permanent a sceptic, I think the players themselves need it too - they're not playing like they believe in this way of playing and they're the ones who need to be convinced as much as anyone.

I agree.

Agree as well. A game where they play total football, dominate and win would insist confidence in a few places that its the right path and can be done.

 Well, there's nothing for it. We've got to beat Del Piero FC 4-0.

sthn.jeff wrote:

james dean wrote:

austin10 wrote:

sthn.jeff wrote:

Hard News wrote:

Replaced with who?

I've still yet to see one person name a viable alternative, particularly from anyone who has advocated Ricki should be replaced.

Exactly.... It is bloody easy to mouth off and scream , but there is no one within a hundred miles of him on the local scene and little in the way of other viable and realistic alternatives. 

With the greatest respect I very much doubt that there is NO viable alternative to Ricki. A full time gig as an A-League head coach would be a highly desirable position for loads of ambitious coaches.  I would image there would be ex head A-League coaches who might have a go at it. In addition there are probably quite a few experianced assistant A-League coaches and guys with experiance at age grade levels who might foot the bill.The unknown variable is how much they would want to pay. But the bottom line is until you advertise you do not know what is out there.

If you use the logic that there are no viable alternatives to Ricki then are you saying its his job for the rest of his working life?

The fact that no one has named an viable alternative is more a reflection of not knowing who is available. To say that every prospective potential coach is inferior to the incumbent does not make sense.

Exactly right - this is a ridiculous straw man argument

If you want Ricki to stay defend his record or explain why it would be good for the club

Rickis record   well lets see 

As A player

61 Caps for NZ 7 Goals played in all of the 1982 qualifying and World cup matches

Three National League Titles and Two Chatham cup wins with Mount Wellington

45 Matches with Wolves in the UK admittedly in Lower Divisions

As A Coach

Central Two Chatham Cup wins and One National Playoff title back in the North / South Days

Knights Played 5 won 3 Lost 1 ( A miracle in its own right)

Nix Played 148 Won 52 D 32 Lost 62  A Winning ratio of 34% or a ratio of 57% where we get something from the game. He has won as many A league matches as any other coach admittedly he is one of the longest serving. Nix have made play offs three years in a row, something no other club has done and we are not dead and buried yet this year.

All Whites NZ P 53 Won 19 Drawn 13 Lost 21 Winning ratio of  35% or a ratio of  60% where we get something from the team. Insert All the obvious stuff about qualifying and being unbeaten at World Cup

Yes the Nix could go to the market to obtain a coach. It was widely reported at the time that Ange is on close to $1m a year at the Victory. I would suggest to lure someone of his calibre or Graham Arnold to Wellington it would cost that and some. Do you think that is really likely to happen with the owners steadfastly refusing to buy a Marquee player?

I am not saying he is a coaching Messiah and the answer to all our prayers but no one has been been suggested whose record as a player and coach in New Zealand comes close.

Sorry but he's a very lucky man to still be in a job with win ratios like that.

lucky - perhap Steve-O, but like everyone else is trying to get the "" crowd to realise is there is in all reality noone better that fits into the welnix budget. Could you see any NZ coach that is available doing better? Do you actually believe that Welnix would spend major cash on bringing in a foreign coach?

There is no way we will see a new coach until there are obvious choices for replacements and right now they aren't exactly knocking the door down.

I don't know is my response to all the above.

All I know is that I've heard the cries of "there's nobody else" before in exactly this situation, but it turned out not to be the case, an unexpected appointment was made in his first managerial role, and the club was turned around, largely with the same players. So, it can happen, even if there's nobody that's absolutely obvious that fans can identify.

fair enough we can't be expected to know everything, but it's clear to me that welnix aren't looking for a new coach, and given the director of football job is being shelved for a year or two due to $$$ (odd given we have some of the wealhiest men in the country running the team) it is highly uinlikely that we will see the end of Ricki for at least another two seasons. I actually think Ricki has done a good job, sure I'd love to have more wins under the belt but finals series 3 years running, being reasonably competitive for 3.5 seasons out of 5, is not bad especially given what the club has been through in that short time.

Whilst this current slump is frustrating t is really only so because we all saw this season as the one where we had no off field owner issues and we hoped that this meant a clear run to the finals. Even the owners and players were saying "top 2". That has clearly changed due to the unexpected/unexplained form slump of key players, we haven't had Ifill dominating and now he is injured, Manny has been out of form, Siggy is doing realy dumb things and costing us goals, even Paston seems out of kilter, had Moss been fit we may have seen the first GK change due to form over injury. Once again fate has handed us a bum hand right when we probably didn't need it (as fans). Something needs to click, a 4-0 total footbal win over Sydney would be a great start. In theory we play better after xmas anyway so who really knows top 4/6 might still be possible.

 Moot argument as Ricki isnt going anywhere soon

But... they would come knocking at the door (and I dont have to name them, it is the nature of vacancies for good jobs)

 yes but wold the ones coming to the door be worth looking at? I can't think of any ex a-league coaches that would be worth considering, and non of the ones currently employed are going to leave to come to the nix. (well i doubt it)

Well of the season continues the way it's going, I don't think Ricki is as safe as some of you may believe. Time will tell I guess.

I agree.  If we finish last and adrift then I'd put about much faith in WelNix standing by Ricki as I would in me getting a Nix call-up.

Of course, based on evidence and the ability to open mouths before understanding the situation I'm a little scared about the replacement process.

so you'd expect the welnix guys to buy him out of the contract they've just announced they have extended? Poor business decision to do that, it would be very unlikely IMO.

There is bound to be someone good in the mix when it happens...

But it aint

Sometimes you need to cut your losses. In football it happens all the time, including at clubs with limited cash.

I pulled this off the Ultimate A League site. Take from it what you will (no preseason and finals games included)

Whats considered a successful manager in terms of ratio? None of these are what I would call flash. (winning 50% is flash?)

I think trophies make a managers record seem better than they are (which sounds silly written down than it did in my head) but even on a 27 game season,  Ange is only pulling 3 points every other game. Ricki is doing it 1 in 3.

Edit: Ok it does not want to display the image even though I can see it.

http://www.ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=mgr&show=msm&finals=exclude

patrick EDIT: Fixed it for you Jeff

agreed, but we know our owners intentions pretty well - and one of their priorities is not wasting money - so with that in mind, and the fact that we are struggling and the owners have openly given their support to the current coach I think it's pretty clear that they will continue to back him till his contract ends.