Wellington Phoenix Men

Coaching Speculation - The global search to hire Mark Rudan

1385 replies · 411,695 views Locked
almost 8 years ago

ballane wrote:

Again i get all that NP but im not convinced even if the owners succeed taking over that we would be able to survive another season like the last couple. Yes you will get us tragics still attending but that would be about all. Dont think im alone in saying it has been bloody hard staying motivated the last couple of seasson.( if it wasnt for may attendance record i dont think i would have dragged myself to some games)

I really dont think we can afford another season like the last couple as i fear for what the support levels may be at should that happen.

I get that too but I think NZ sports crowds generally are fair weather fans [and I class myself in that category]. The club couldn't carry on the way they have in recent years with poor coach and player selection and general [perceived] disregard for the fans and expect support. They would need to 'piss or get off the pot" if their future in the A League was secure. If they weren't prepared to do so, then they would need to sell to someone that will. Before people start shouting that you don't make any money out of sports teams and who would buy them any way - that's simply not true. There are plenty of people and groups that do and there always seems to be buyers looking for good clubs playing in good competitions that don't throttle their clubs financially and keep all of the cream themselves.
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almost 8 years ago

Napier Phoenix wrote:

ballane wrote:

Again i get all that NP but im not convinced even if the owners succeed taking over that we would be able to survive another season like the last couple. Yes you will get us tragics still attending but that would be about all. Dont think im alone in saying it has been bloody hard staying motivated the last couple of seasson.( if it wasnt for may attendance record i dont think i would have dragged myself to some games)

I really dont think we can afford another season like the last couple as i fear for what the support levels may be at should that happen.

I get that too but I think NZ sports crowds generally are fair weather fans [and I class myself in that category]. The club couldn't carry on the way they have in recent years with poor coach and player selection and general [perceived] disregard for the fans and expect support. They would need to 'piss or get off the pot" if their future in the A League was secure. If they weren't prepared to do so, then they would need to sell to someone that will. Before people start shouting that you don't make any money out of sports teams and who would buy them any way - that's simply not true. There are plenty of people and groups that do and there always seems to be buyers looking for good clubs playing in good competitions that don't throttle their clubs financially and keep all of the cream themselves.

How many HAL teams make a profit, of don’t run at loss currently?

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almost 8 years ago

I really don't care whether we're full of Kiwis or Aussies. Whether we invest in imports or international Kiwis/Aussies... I want us to start performing on the pitch so the club gets some performances and personalities they can leverage to boost our metrics.

Until such time as the ownership situation changes, those metrics must be our sole focus. No if's, no but's, and definitely no maybe's. As it stands no metrics = no club. And fudge that.

We can think about developing NZ football(ers) when we have a 20 year licence - whilst we have a two year licence I see that as the sole priority.

E + R + O

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almost 8 years ago

Is Mike Phelan a possible coaching candidate?

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almost 8 years ago

coochiee wrote:

Napier Phoenix wrote:

ballane wrote:

Again i get all that NP but im not convinced even if the owners succeed taking over that we would be able to survive another season like the last couple. Yes you will get us tragics still attending but that would be about all. Dont think im alone in saying it has been bloody hard staying motivated the last couple of seasson.( if it wasnt for may attendance record i dont think i would have dragged myself to some games)

I really dont think we can afford another season like the last couple as i fear for what the support levels may be at should that happen.

I get that too but I think NZ sports crowds generally are fair weather fans [and I class myself in that category]. The club couldn't carry on the way they have in recent years with poor coach and player selection and general [perceived] disregard for the fans and expect support. They would need to 'piss or get off the pot" if their future in the A League was secure. If they weren't prepared to do so, then they would need to sell to someone that will. Before people start shouting that you don't make any money out of sports teams and who would buy them any way - that's simply not true. There are plenty of people and groups that do and there always seems to be buyers looking for good clubs playing in good competitions that don't throttle their clubs financially and keep all of the cream themselves.

How many HAL teams make a profit, of don’t run at loss currently?

That goes to my point about there needs to be a sustainable ownership model that is geared so clubs and owners can make money. That is the argument of the A League owners - the current FFA controlled model doesn't allow that. The writing is on the wall, there is going to be a huge change in that regard - that is why there are so many lining up for the expansion. You don't get that number of people lining up to lose money.
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almost 8 years ago

coochiee wrote:

Napier Phoenix wrote:

ballane wrote:

Again i get all that NP but im not convinced even if the owners succeed taking over that we would be able to survive another season like the last couple. Yes you will get us tragics still attending but that would be about all. Dont think im alone in saying it has been bloody hard staying motivated the last couple of seasson.( if it wasnt for may attendance record i dont think i would have dragged myself to some games)

I really dont think we can afford another season like the last couple as i fear for what the support levels may be at should that happen.

I get that too but I think NZ sports crowds generally are fair weather fans [and I class myself in that category]. The club couldn't carry on the way they have in recent years with poor coach and player selection and general [perceived] disregard for the fans and expect support. They would need to 'piss or get off the pot" if their future in the A League was secure. If they weren't prepared to do so, then they would need to sell to someone that will. Before people start shouting that you don't make any money out of sports teams and who would buy them any way - that's simply not true. There are plenty of people and groups that do and there always seems to be buyers looking for good clubs playing in good competitions that don't throttle their clubs financially and keep all of the cream themselves.

How many HAL teams make a profit, of don’t run at loss currently?

  "ZERO" that is why Nix are backing (at a cost in the media/FFA) The Independent A-League so strongly

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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almost 8 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Napier Phoenix wrote:

ballane wrote:

Again i get all that NP but im not convinced even if the owners succeed taking over that we would be able to survive another season like the last couple. Yes you will get us tragics still attending but that would be about all. Dont think im alone in saying it has been bloody hard staying motivated the last couple of seasson.( if it wasnt for may attendance record i dont think i would have dragged myself to some games)

I really dont think we can afford another season like the last couple as i fear for what the support levels may be at should that happen.

I get that too but I think NZ sports crowds generally are fair weather fans [and I class myself in that category]. The club couldn't carry on the way they have in recent years with poor coach and player selection and general [perceived] disregard for the fans and expect support. They would need to 'piss or get off the pot" if their future in the A League was secure. If they weren't prepared to do so, then they would need to sell to someone that will. Before people start shouting that you don't make any money out of sports teams and who would buy them any way - that's simply not true. There are plenty of people and groups that do and there always seems to be buyers looking for good clubs playing in good competitions that don't throttle their clubs financially and keep all of the cream themselves.

How many HAL teams make a profit, of don’t run at loss currently?

  "ZERO" that is why Nix are backing (at a cost in the media/FFA) The Independent A-League so strongly

Even the Victory with their home crowds of over 20K, can't make a profit, I think little prospect Nix really ever will. Sure Independent A-League will make a difference..........

That's why confused by NP's comments above. There are no other NZ buyers of the Nix. That's unless Terry S resurfaces!

The only buyers are in Australia (new expansion applicants), and they will move team to Australia, ie want the licence only.

As Dome said on podcast if it wasn't for current owners (and you can criticise them all you want), the club will just fold as a NZ entity. I don't think current owners disregard the fans at all. Also there is no 'cream' for them to keep, if that's what you are inferring.

Sorry getting off topic in this coaching thread.

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almost 8 years ago

I'm not convinced of that Coochie. If the A League is restructured so clubs can make money - there will be buyers. They might not necessarily be from NZ but the Nix don't have to be owned by a NZ group anyway, as long as the team is based here, why should we care?

Why do you think there are of these other groups lining up bids to join the A League?

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almost 8 years ago

Napier Phoenix wrote:

I'm not convinced of that Coochie. If the A League is restructured so clubs can make money - there will be buyers. They might not necessarily be from NZ but the Nix don't have to be owned by a NZ group anyway, as long as the team is based here, why should we care?

Why do you think there are of these other groups lining up bids to join the A League?

I'll put comments in ownership thread - as getting off topic methinks.

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almost 8 years ago

coochiee wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Napier Phoenix wrote:

ballane wrote:

Again i get all that NP but im not convinced even if the owners succeed taking over that we would be able to survive another season like the last couple. Yes you will get us tragics still attending but that would be about all. Dont think im alone in saying it has been bloody hard staying motivated the last couple of seasson.( if it wasnt for may attendance record i dont think i would have dragged myself to some games)

I really dont think we can afford another season like the last couple as i fear for what the support levels may be at should that happen.

I get that too but I think NZ sports crowds generally are fair weather fans [and I class myself in that category]. The club couldn't carry on the way they have in recent years with poor coach and player selection and general [perceived] disregard for the fans and expect support. They would need to 'piss or get off the pot" if their future in the A League was secure. If they weren't prepared to do so, then they would need to sell to someone that will. Before people start shouting that you don't make any money out of sports teams and who would buy them any way - that's simply not true. There are plenty of people and groups that do and there always seems to be buyers looking for good clubs playing in good competitions that don't throttle their clubs financially and keep all of the cream themselves.

How many HAL teams make a profit, of don’t run at loss currently?

  "ZERO" that is why Nix are backing (at a cost in the media/FFA) The Independent A-League so strongly

Even the Victory with their home crowds of over 20K, can't make a profit, I think little prospect Nix really ever will. Sure Independent A-League will make a difference..........

That's why confused by NP's comments above. There are no other NZ buyers of the Nix. That's unless Terry S resurfaces!

The only buyers are in Australia (new expansion applicants), and they will move team to Australia, ie want the licence only.

As Dome said on podcast if it wasn't for current owners (and you can criticise them all you want), the club will just fold as a NZ entity. I don't think current owners disregard the fans at all. Also there is no 'cream' for them to keep, if that's what you are inferring.

Sorry getting off topic in this coaching thread.

Who can say there are no NZ buyers when the club is not for sale?

Normo's coming home

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almost 8 years ago

aitkenmike wrote:

james dean wrote:

Seriously 12 months ago we assembled a squad specifically to avoid having NZ ers.  Now we're going the opposite and trying to buddy up with the National Side?  Yes, I know the A-League has introduced international breaks but come one, how can we possibly succeed when our strategy changes year on year like this

I would like to think that it's because they have realised that the original idea of avoiding New Zealanders was a TERRIBLE one and have shifted permanently closer to looking to promote New Zealanders (where possible) is the better direction for the club.  Hopefully it won't be shifting year to year.


Exactly - such a short sighted move.

Normo's coming home

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almost 8 years ago

james dean wrote:

aitkenmike wrote:

james dean wrote:

Seriously 12 months ago we assembled a squad specifically to avoid having NZ ers.  Now we're going the opposite and trying to buddy up with the National Side?  Yes, I know the A-League has introduced international breaks but come one, how can we possibly succeed when our strategy changes year on year like this

I would like to think that it's because they have realised that the original idea of avoiding New Zealanders was a TERRIBLE one and have shifted permanently closer to looking to promote New Zealanders (where possible) is the better direction for the club.  Hopefully it won't be shifting year to year.


Exactly - such a short sighted move.

I can understand how #metrics promotes short-termism.
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almost 8 years ago

james dean wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Napier Phoenix wrote:

ballane wrote:

Again i get all that NP but im not convinced even if the owners succeed taking over that we would be able to survive another season like the last couple. Yes you will get us tragics still attending but that would be about all. Dont think im alone in saying it has been bloody hard staying motivated the last couple of seasson.( if it wasnt for may attendance record i dont think i would have dragged myself to some games)

I really dont think we can afford another season like the last couple as i fear for what the support levels may be at should that happen.

I get that too but I think NZ sports crowds generally are fair weather fans [and I class myself in that category]. The club couldn't carry on the way they have in recent years with poor coach and player selection and general [perceived] disregard for the fans and expect support. They would need to 'piss or get off the pot" if their future in the A League was secure. If they weren't prepared to do so, then they would need to sell to someone that will. Before people start shouting that you don't make any money out of sports teams and who would buy them any way - that's simply not true. There are plenty of people and groups that do and there always seems to be buyers looking for good clubs playing in good competitions that don't throttle their clubs financially and keep all of the cream themselves.

How many HAL teams make a profit, of don’t run at loss currently?

  "ZERO" that is why Nix are backing (at a cost in the media/FFA) The Independent A-League so strongly

Even the Victory with their home crowds of over 20K, can't make a profit, I think little prospect Nix really ever will. Sure Independent A-League will make a difference..........

That's why confused by NP's comments above. There are no other NZ buyers of the Nix. That's unless Terry S resurfaces!

The only buyers are in Australia (new expansion applicants), and they will move team to Australia, ie want the licence only.

As Dome said on podcast if it wasn't for current owners (and you can criticise them all you want), the club will just fold as a NZ entity. I don't think current owners disregard the fans at all. Also there is no 'cream' for them to keep, if that's what you are inferring.

Sorry getting off topic in this coaching thread.

Who can say there are no NZ buyers when the club is not for sale?

Again I'll put some reply comments in ownership thread - as getting off topic.

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almost 8 years ago

Personally I cant wait for an announcement so I can be suitably underwhelmed but still overly optimistic

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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almost 8 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Napier Phoenix wrote:

ballane wrote:

Again i get all that NP but im not convinced even if the owners succeed taking over that we would be able to survive another season like the last couple. Yes you will get us tragics still attending but that would be about all. Dont think im alone in saying it has been bloody hard staying motivated the last couple of seasson.( if it wasnt for may attendance record i dont think i would have dragged myself to some games)

I really dont think we can afford another season like the last couple as i fear for what the support levels may be at should that happen.

I get that too but I think NZ sports crowds generally are fair weather fans [and I class myself in that category]. The club couldn't carry on the way they have in recent years with poor coach and player selection and general [perceived] disregard for the fans and expect support. They would need to 'piss or get off the pot" if their future in the A League was secure. If they weren't prepared to do so, then they would need to sell to someone that will. Before people start shouting that you don't make any money out of sports teams and who would buy them any way - that's simply not true. There are plenty of people and groups that do and there always seems to be buyers looking for good clubs playing in good competitions that don't throttle their clubs financially and keep all of the cream themselves.

How many HAL teams make a profit, of don’t run at loss currently?

  "ZERO" that is why Nix are backing (at a cost in the media/FFA) The Independent A-League so strongly

A few years back I looked how much revenue Barcelona is making, I think was around 16 milion, which would be the amount to pay your players salary/month. I don't think investing in football club is good idea for making money. Sure everyone gets paid, but as a owner to get rich? We should ask the Paris investor and ask him how to make money.

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almost 8 years ago

If anyone is interested in an intelligent discussion about profitability and sports team ownership, I've started a discussion in the General Football Discussion thread.

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almost 8 years ago

Bit of transfer talk but if Fritz does take over the nix he might go for some of the handa premiership players that are AW's which imo would work well meaning fees won't be so much meaning if they really wanted to they could spend a bit of cash on 1 or 2 positions they see crucial to improve. 

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almost 8 years ago

FFA buying support to help them during CREG - int breaks, next will be Greenie dispensation ????

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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almost 8 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

FFA buying support to help them during CREG - int breaks, next will be Greenie dispensation ????

A bit of a temporary workaround, but do we even need to appoint an 'official' assistant coach? Could we leave that role vacant, and appoint someone like Greenie as a 'coaching adviser', or 'team trainer' or some other made-up title allowing him to do the assistant's job till such time as he gets the approved coaching qualifications? Possible? 

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almost 8 years ago

scribbler wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

FFA buying support to help them during CREG - int breaks, next will be Greenie dispensation ????

A bit of a temporary workaround, but do we even need to appoint an 'official' assistant coach? Could we leave that role vacant, and appoint someone like Greenie as a 'coaching adviser', or 'team trainer' or some other made-up title allowing him to do the assistant's job till such time as he gets the approved coaching qualifications? Possible? 

As we all Sour last night anything is possible in the A-League with the FFA (slang term) in charge ????????????????

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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almost 8 years ago

Anyone else figure we are down to Sherman or Schmid? 

Sherman for me.

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almost 8 years ago

don't really care anymore as long as they announce it soon

Queenslander 3x a year.

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almost 8 years ago

Truthful Jones told me this.... a Wellington cabbie was in an accident and in a comma for a couple of weeks... anywho when he woke and he saw everyone in white and still in a daze he throught he was in heaven...

He then heard a doctor and nurse discussing the new Nix's coach ... and confused he said has hell frozen over ... and they asked no why do you ask ... he replied the Nix's coach has been appointed..  

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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almost 8 years ago

How's that wooden spoon?

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almost 8 years ago

Midfielder wrote:

Truthful Jones told me this.... a Wellington cabbie was in an accident and in a comma for a couple of weeks... anywho when he woke and he saw everyone in white and still in a daze he throught he was in heaven...

He then heard a doctor and nurse discussing the new Nix's coach ... and confused he said has hell frozen over ... and they asked no why do you ask ... he replied the Nix's coach has been appointed..  

No, we do not really want Paul Okon.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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almost 8 years ago

But hey, it was a funny joke. We haven't lost the ability to laugh at ourselves I hope.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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almost 8 years ago

Lonegunmen wrote:

But hey, it was a funny joke. We haven't lost the ability to laugh at ourselves I hope.

Dunno about laughing at ourselves, but laughing at others is collectively this forum's gold medal event
Annual finals disappointment enthusiast.

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almost 8 years ago

mjp2 wrote:

Anyone else figure we are down to Sherman or Schmid? 

Sherman for me.

I'd like to think that no matter who they settle on, the Nix are currently also in serious talks with NZF on ways they can cooperate more for the good of the game. Or is that too much to expect? I hope not. 

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almost 8 years ago

Midfielder wrote:

Truthful Jones told me this.... a Wellington cabbie was in an accident and in a comma for a couple of weeks... anywho when he woke and he saw everyone in white and still in a daze he throught he was in heaven...

He then heard a doctor and nurse discussing the new Nix's coach ... and confused he said has hell frozen over ... and they asked no why do you ask ... he replied the Nix's coach has been appointed..  

"in a comma for a couple of weeks." Beats being in a full stop.

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almost 8 years ago

harrymc wrote:

Midfielder wrote:

Truthful Jones told me this.... a Wellington cabbie was in an accident and in a comma for a couple of weeks... anywho when he woke and he saw everyone in white and still in a daze he throught he was in heaven...

He then heard a doctor and nurse discussing the new Nix's coach ... and confused he said has hell frozen over ... and they asked no why do you ask ... he replied the Nix's coach has been appointed..  

"in a comma for a couple of weeks." Beats being in a full stop.

Or in a colon.

"You've nailed it in a nutshell." - Mark Rudan

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almost 8 years ago

hazhapard wrote:

harrymc wrote:

Midfielder wrote:

Truthful Jones told me this.... a Wellington cabbie was in an accident and in a comma for a couple of weeks... anywho when he woke and he saw everyone in white and still in a daze he throught he was in heaven...

He then heard a doctor and nurse discussing the new Nix's coach ... and confused he said has hell frozen over ... and they asked no why do you ask ... he replied the Nix's coach has been appointed..  

"in a comma for a couple of weeks." Beats being in a full stop.

Or in a colon.

Depends who you're with.



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almost 8 years ago

hazhapard wrote:

harrymc wrote:

Midfielder wrote:

Truthful Jones told me this.... a Wellington cabbie was in an accident and in a comma for a couple of weeks... anywho when he woke and he saw everyone in white and still in a daze he throught he was in heaven...

He then heard a doctor and nurse discussing the new Nix's coach ... and confused he said has hell frozen over ... and they asked no why do you ask ... he replied the Nix's coach has been appointed..  

"in a comma for a couple of weeks." Beats being in a full stop.

Or in a colon.

When it comes to the gameday, they do not just "go through the motions", full stop.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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almost 8 years ago

So the squad are off on a four week break at the moment. But some of them will be off contract by now. What happens to them, especially if they're fringe squaddies who have been largely out of sight this season? Will they be given the change to trial again for the new coach?

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almost 8 years ago

I imagine so... some of them are probably training with winter clubs in an effort to stay fit... one or two may look to train overseas if they have the right contacts.

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almost 8 years ago

Will it be next week?

Or will the waiting continue?

Is any coach with the right qualifications actually interested?

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almost 8 years ago

Just noticed that Piney thinks they may go back to Des Buckingham, anyone think this is a goer?

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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almost 8 years ago

paullt wrote:

Just noticed that Piney thinks they may go back to Des Buckingham, anyone think this is a goer?

Underwhelming.  

We went for Kalezic as he had previously applied for the job (and presumably not got it).  Des has also presumably previously applied for the job and not got it, it feels like we really are grasping round at the moment

Normo's coming home

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almost 8 years ago

Jesus Christ,  just bring back Ricki.....



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almost 8 years ago

Siggy should be coach . i'm sure he could get the players to play for the shirt and not themselves .

I know i am dreaming . does siggy even have a coaching licence  ???

I LOVE LAMP

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