Wellington Phoenix Men

Contracted Players - Return of the Long Pins

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about 11 years ago

mjp2 wrote:

I don't really think this will be a popular view, but if a kid refuses to sign a contract extension you don't bother with his development any further. 

And, no, I don't care if it might jeopardise a championship crack.  Clubs are more than one good year.  You earn your title consistent with your culture, or you risk all.  That's how you build strong clubs.  Not by bending with the wind for short term gains. 

So you have a squad of 'the bare minimum' and you choose not to play a guy in form because he doesn't want to re-sign? That's an insult to the fans and very poor management. 

"Come down to the game. This week we've chosen to limit ourselves to a mere three forwards in the squad 'cos we think that'll be even more fun"

You want fans to come, you want to win games. Not playing your best team jeopardises that. Besides if we've developed a player who can then get into an overseas league isn't that what we want? How is that different from how fine we all were with letting Burns go?



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about 11 years ago

mjp2 wrote:

I don't really think this will be a popular view, but if a kid refuses to sign a contract extension you don't bother with his development any further.  You can't allow any young player to think they are bigger than the team and the club.  The long game is having kids develop, a number becoming club stalwarts and hopefully some earning transfer fees and going on to play for NZ.  We cannot compete with the bling clubs for money and imports, so this is our club game plan.  Develop kids and do it better than anybody else.  You don't balls that all up by letting one kid take you for a ride and encouraging every next kid to say, nah, want to be a free agent, and at the same time thinking they can still get shop window game time.

No idea if any of that applies to Boyd, but that's how I'd play it if I was running the club and that situation arose.

I don't have a problem with a player playing hard ball with the club and refusing a contract.  If they think that is best for their career then they have every right to make that call.  They just need to understand, at that stage, that hard ball works both ways and the club then owes them nothing and should get on with the clubs future and not distort it's culture and strategy to continue playing them.  You simply cannot afford to encourage kids to refuse contract extensions.

And, no, I don't care if it might jeopardise a championship crack.  Clubs are more than one good year.  You earn your title consistent with your culture, or you risk all.  That's how you build strong clubs.  Not by bending with the wind for short term gains. 

I like this post.

It does go both ways and there is no such thing as loyalty as much as we would like to thing there will be. At some point, a young kid will want to be signed and he will want security and to be coached and developed. The club commit to that (look at Rufer and Ridenton). By the same token, if the kid develops and is ready to move on, if he fulfils the terms of the contract, then good on him. If you make noises that you are looking to move on, don't expect the club to invest in you any more. The smart ploy is to keep your gob shut for as long as possible and knowing the ego behind him that guides him, that's never gonna happen. Boyd has probably made the mistake that Tommy Smith did in talking when he should have shut up (and I reference the part about possibly making himself available for USA). If you are under contract, why blatantly shop yourself about? I get that you have the right to do that, but what message does that send to your current coach/employer?

For me, I think Ernie is entitled to play this anyway he likes - he is the coach and if he fudges it up, he will hear about it and it could mean his job (extreme but follow me on this). If he thinks Boyds got an ego/crap attitude and is looking to move on, would you really bother with him regardless of what it means to the club and results? I would not. At the moment, we are 4th without Boyd playing. If he had played more would we be higher? I would say more unlikely than likely but we will never know.

I think we are arguing over a player that probably would not make a difference to our form (and the Adelaide match makes me look foolish) and a player we are unlikely to miss when he moves on.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 11 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

mjp2 wrote:

I don't really think this will be a popular view, but if a kid refuses to sign a contract extension you don't bother with his development any further.  You can't allow any young player to think they are bigger than the team and the club.  The long game is having kids develop, a number becoming club stalwarts and hopefully some earning transfer fees and going on to play for NZ.  We cannot compete with the bling clubs for money and imports, so this is our club game plan.  Develop kids and do it better than anybody else.  You don't balls that all up by letting one kid take you for a ride and encouraging every next kid to say, nah, want to be a free agent, and at the same time thinking they can still get shop window game time.

No idea if any of that applies to Boyd, but that's how I'd play it if I was running the club and that situation arose.

I don't have a problem with a player playing hard ball with the club and refusing a contract.  If they think that is best for their career then they have every right to make that call.  They just need to understand, at that stage, that hard ball works both ways and the club then owes them nothing and should get on with the clubs future and not distort it's culture and strategy to continue playing them.  You simply cannot afford to encourage kids to refuse contract extensions.

And, no, I don't care if it might jeopardise a championship crack.  Clubs are more than one good year.  You earn your title consistent with your culture, or you risk all.  That's how you build strong clubs.  Not by bending with the wind for short term gains. 

I like this post.

It does go both ways and there is no such thing as loyalty as much as we would like to thing there will be. At some point, a young kid will want to be signed and he will want security and to be coached and developed. The club commit to that (look at Rufer and Ridenton). By the same token, if the kid develops and is ready to move on, if he fulfils the terms of the contract, then good on him. If you make noises that you are looking to move on, don't expect the club to invest in you any more. The smart ploy is to keep your gob shut for as long as possible and knowing the ego behind him that guides him, that's never gonna happen. Boyd has probably made the mistake that Tommy Smith did in talking when he should have shut up (and I reference the part about possibly making himself available for USA). If you are under contract, why blatantly shop yourself about? I get that you have the right to do that, but what message does that send to your current coach/employer?

For me, I think Ernie is entitled to play this anyway he likes - he is the coach and if he fudges it up, he will hear about it and it could mean his job (extreme but follow me on this). If he thinks Boyds got an ego/crap attitude and is looking to move on, would you really bother with him regardless of what it means to the club and results? I would not. At the moment, we are 4th without Boyd playing. If he had played more would we be higher? I would say more unlikely than likely but we will never know.

I think we are arguing over a player that probably would not make a difference to our form (and the Adelaide match makes me look foolish) and a player we are unlikely to miss when he moves on.

Fine to plan for the future but it's pretty clear we could be using him today.  Ernie didn't trust Kenny on the weekend when we needed a late goal.  

Normo's coming home

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about 11 years ago

We could be JD, but in the grand scheme of things, would he be making that much of a difference? Personally, I am not so sure. 

Either way we wont know and its all speculation and me saying he would have no impact is as correct and relevant as the next person saying he would.. He may have come on and scored 4 in the weekend. He may have conceded an own goal. In all of that, we have to trust Ernie that he is doing the right thing by the team.

As a matter of interest, is anyone else in the squad (and there are those that talk) saying 'Boyd should be getting a run. Ernie is being hard on him'? That would be a telling indicator if a couple were.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 11 years ago
Soccer stoppage time saying a nz based winger is about to trial for an A league club.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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about 11 years ago

Facilities?

                                                                        COYN    

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about 11 years ago

If I were a betting man, I would guess Ryan de Vries.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 11 years ago

Paul Ifill?



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about 11 years ago

martinb wrote:

Paul Ifill?

as much as we would like it to happen, that ship has sailed
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about 11 years ago

Officially contracted to the Phoenix now. 


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 11 years ago

And here's the official confirmation.

http://www.wellingtonphoenix.com/article/griffiths-has-good-feeling-about-wellington-stint/1l43nlcc62lhg1fh092jyr06xx


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 11 years ago

Updated:


EXPIRES END OF 2014/15:

.

Michael BOXALL

Tyler BOYD (u21)

Josh BRINDELL-SOUTH

Kenny CUNNINGHAM (f)

Joel GRIFFITHS

Jason HICKS

.

EXPIRES END OF 2015/16:

.

Kwabena APPIAH-KUBI

Roly BONEVACIA (f)

Nathan BURNS

Tom DOYLE

Andrew DURANTE

Louis FENTON

Lewis ITALIANO

Roy KRISHNA (f)

Vince LIA

Michael McGLINCHEY

Manny MUSCAT

Matthew RIDENTON (u21)

Alex RODRIGUEZ GORRIN (f) (+1)

Alex RUFER (u21)

Ben SIGMUND

.

EXPIRES END OF 2016/17:

.

Glen MOSS

Albert RIERA (f)




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about 11 years ago

So who do you re-sign at the end of the season?

Jason Hicks - definitely (he's cheap)

Michael Boxall - Someone is going to need to replace Sigmund and Durante in the next few years. Our defensive depth is weak.

Josh Brindell-South - We lack in defensive depth. He is probably quite cheap. I'm not bothered either way.

Kenny Cunningham - Definitely not worth a foreign spot. He is just not as good as Krishna and Burns who are both similar players.

Joel Griffiths - Wait and see. Probably not worth resigning.

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about 11 years ago · edited about 11 years ago · History

Wouldn't re-sign any, except possibly Hicks and JBS - but in JBS' case i'd rather we pull a Kiwi from the WeeNix

a.haak

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about 11 years ago

need an U21?..so Hicks?

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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about 11 years ago

A week ago the views on re-signing Hicks would have been very different. I think he (and JBS) need to be seen at A-League level more before making a call.

I would definitely want Boxall for another season if he's willing to keep waiting for his chance. Surely Siggy or Dura will pick up an injury or lose form some time in the next year.

You know we belong together...

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about 11 years ago

Does Boxall want to stay? Rumours were he was gone at the end of the season too? 



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about 11 years ago

Isn't Roy Krishna a local near the end of the year?.

Mr Positive

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about 11 years ago · edited about 11 years ago · History

Hicks would be a good resigning.

Mr Positive

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about 11 years ago

Boro4eva wrote:

need an U21?..so Hicks?

hicks is in his mid 20s
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about 11 years ago

Keep hicks. not everyone in your squad is going to be a 90 minute star. hes a great squad player

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about 11 years ago

hey guys, I really cant wait to pull on the stripey this weekend against Melbourne Victory FC. 

I just hope that Sarah Ho is running the lines...

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about 11 years ago

mods - as hilarious as this Joel Griffiths account is, can we ban it and any other accounts the person running it may have?

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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about 11 years ago

Frankie Mac wrote:

mods - as hilarious as this Joel Griffiths account is, can we ban it and any other accounts the person running it may have?

Why?


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 11 years ago

it is not funny, it adds no value and it is a complete waste of everyones time. These fake accounts were fudgeing annoying when they were all the rage on twitter about 3 years ago - the last thing this forum needs (in my humble opinion) is a load of these coding accounts set up by every would-be comedian rehashing the same tired old gags in every thread.

"Ha ha, don't let me near the linesman, lolz"

"ha ha, I'll hit you in the nuts, rofl"

"ha ha, I'll crush your nuts" *squirts monitor with water shot from flower in jacket buttonhole*

Yawn.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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about 11 years ago

Royz wrote:

Isn't Roy Krishna a local near the end of the year?.

Nope, it appears he hasnt started the process yet despite what had been reported.
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about 11 years ago

Frankie Mac wrote:

it is not funny, it adds no value and it is a complete waste of everyones time. These fake accounts were fudgeing annoying when they were all the rage on twitter about 3 years ago - the last thing this forum needs (in my humble opinion) is a load of these coding accounts set up by every would-be comedian rehashing the same tired old gags in every thread.

"Ha ha, don't let me near the linesman, lolz"

"ha ha, I'll hit you in the nuts, rofl"

"ha ha, I'll crush your nuts" *squirts monitor with water shot from flower in jacket buttonhole*

Yawn.

If we banned everyone on here who is not funny we would have very few people left contributing and the mildy amusing people who are left would have less material to work woth making them less funny too.

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 11 years ago

Just use the "ignore" button

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 11 years ago · edited about 11 years ago · History

patrick478 wrote:

Frankie Mac wrote:

mods - as hilarious as this Joel Griffiths account is, can we ban it and any other accounts the person running it may have?

Why?

so, saying a player sucks is very bad, but creating a fake account of a player just to make fun of him is fine?

I like tautologies because I like them.
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about 11 years ago
I'm with Frankie on this one.
Be obscure clearly
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about 11 years ago

The fake Pavlovic wasn't funny either.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 11 years ago

So Frankie Mac should also be banned?

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about 11 years ago

Way to write an essay on proper social media etiquette Frankie ; fighting the good fight

a.haak

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about 11 years ago

I want to know what Jeff thinks.

I like tautologies because I like them.
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about 11 years ago

Cosimo wrote:

I want to know what Steve-o thinks.

Fixed.


Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.


Phoenix fans. We have to win them over one fan at a time.

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about 11 years ago · edited about 11 years ago · History

*tenterhooks*

I like tautologies because I like them.
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about 11 years ago

I'm with Frankie.

Would we allow someone to set up a fake Ifill or Siggie account and gob off? Players names should be off limits cause someone (media) may read it, take it as gospel and then its all on......

I get that its funny and I have no issue with that. Be funny and put your own name or a variant of the players name to it (J-Griff lover or something like that). Not the actual players name

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 11 years ago · edited about 11 years ago · History

I know Smithy has mentioned in the past legal things that the site is not allowed to do and have to be careful of. Letting someone impersonate an actual player from the Phoenix is dangerous.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 11 years ago · edited about 11 years ago · History

valeo wrote:

Wouldn't re-sign any, except possibly Hicks and JBS - but in JBS' case i'd rather we pull a Kiwi from the WeeNix

I agree completely with the Kiwi from Weenix part

I bet Andrew Blake will be one player and I think you give the young DiMairo kid a crack or a Gulley

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 11 years ago

martinb wrote:

Does Boxall want to stay? Rumours were he was gone at the end of the season too? 

I thought I read a quote from Ernie this week that mentioned Boyd AND Boxall leaving cause these young players need game time (it was an actual quote). I remember thinking to myself as I read it 'Oh so Boxall is leaving then'

Grumpy old bastard alert

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