Contracted Players - Return of the Long Pins

Guessing they are/were trying to delay the big $$ contract until as late as possible to give new Mr Euro coach as much cap space to play with. Watson/Lowry probably wouldn't take up much of that (and there are probably not too many other options locally for squad players). Whereas Moss, Bonevacia and Lia would. 

Yeah, and that's completely fair enough I think. Moss is still a bit of a strange one, though. Unlikely to find a better keeper at the same price.

Reckon people will realise what we had now he's gone. He was one of the best keepers in the league with a (usually horrid) defence in front of him.

When did we replace Tim Brown? Hard working box to box midfielder who can defend and scores with head and feet?

Moss made very few errors IIRC. A very tidy keeper. Some debate about speed off his line, distribution and in the air, but he consistently ranked better as a keeper than we did as a team.

But to assess his worth we need to know what he cost. I have no idea but without that fact it's impossible.

I agree.

The only logic I could see behind the request was he thought he may be 50 percent more busy this year under Des and Greenacre.

That may yet occur at Newcastle if we have a new coach

Good luck to Mossy if this was in fact true

If true then I'm glad he's gone. I like Mossy but he's not the best keeper in the league.

Known to drop a clanger when we least needed it. Could save penalties was a plus and a great instinctive shot stopper on occasion but the big hoofs to nowhere except the opposition, the lack of organising the defence, especially at the back post for corners. Time to consign him to Phoenix history and move onwards and upwards.

Objectively, if you looked at the starting keepers in the league, I reckon he is in the top 4. Now between what he was getting (we don't know) and what the top keepers get (someone must know) I don't think his claim is entirely unreasonable especially when he one of the busier keepers in the league

Even Vuka, probably the most in-form keeper in the league, is prone to some absolute clangers. All keepers are. 

Moss has had far less clangers than Roy has messed up one on ones.

Here's a thought. The last two seasons we have finished 9th and 7th. Either Moss is in the bottom half of keepers in the league, or he's better than that and our squad is weak in other areas. If the first explanation is true then why pay over market rate for an inadequate keeper? If the second one is true then keeper is somewhere we could afford to downgrade if it frees up cap for positions which will have a greater impact on results. Because clearly if Moss is better than average there must be worse than average keepers in teams finishing in the top half of the table, so stronger squads in other areas can make up for a weaker keeper.

Long story short, it doesn't seem like it would make business sense to pay more than average on your keeper when there are weeknesses in other areas which need addressing (RB, DM, ST).

None of which is to bag Moss out but let's not kid ourselves about his relative worth to the team. Every spend under the salary cap has to be considered in light of what else it could have been spent on.

My thoughts exactly.

Doubt it, Sevens isn't a FIFA-controlled format so it's hard to see why they'd care. Besides, if it even might have been an issue their winter clubs wouldn't have allowed it.

"Justin, Joel - do you want a free trip to Hong Kong"
"Yeah ok go on mate"

Thats what I read into it.

Very.  He's an exceptional shot stopper, but his distribution is not strong (the long punt up the middle or the long kick up the middle) and he was never a commanding presence on cross - he really didn't come out for much at all.  I think he can be replaced

Hopefully he's getting those wages at the Jets though.

I agree.  Good shot stopping alone would be expected from a young, athletic keeper, and Italiano would (should) be just as good at that.

The other skills you mention (organising defence, communication skills) are developed with age, time and exposure to playing at a decent level, if the individual potential is there.  While I am not sure if Italiano has that potential or not, I am prepared to give him a chance to prove it rather than just cutting him loose, unless he wanted to go elsewhere for a guaranteed starting spot / better money / family proximity / etc.

So let's just frame up the consensus here. We love Mossy (you light up my world like nobody else) but it's fundamentally a sound piece of businses from the Phoenix to let him go.

Is that pretty much where we're at? 

That's where I'm at anyway. And I'll add to that that a refresh of the leadership group probably wouldn't hurt given this year's in-house ructions. So that's a fringe benefit of Mossy going as well.

Moss will be a big gap to fill IMO

Yes, and we've been so bad at the back eventually we have to try changing some of the sacred cows back there (mossy, dura...)

I just don't think Moss was the problem at the back - us changing full backs every game was (and Dura to a certain extent). Wasn't helped by lack of solidity in central midfield either.

Though to be honest defence wasn't our issue for most of the season anyway.

Ahh I am not that sure about this one.  I would say it was much improved with Tratt on board, and with Rossi doing his job really well.  However, I recall a couple of spectacular howlers from Dura which decided the game in each case  To be fair, there was probably only a couple of really bad ones from Dura, but they were memorable.

I would however agree that there were other issues that were a problem. From my own observations it would be the long time Kosta took to get going (half a season?) and the way Roly was missing in action early on (well, pretty much until he finally talked to his agent). I would say our attack was disjointed for quite a long part of this season.

Depends on the replacement we have lined up (hopefully) or that we end up with.  If we save 300k (no idea what the relative salary is) but end up with Italiano between the sticks I don't know that it is such a great bit of business. Or God forbid we save 50k and end up with someone like Velaphi or Kennedy.

i think moss will be missed

distribution is a coach's choice and potentially had little to do with moss. split your centre backs and drop a midfielder in and you have good short passing avenues. have a roaming play maker and you have a good throwing target. we have never played like this. we also have little up front in the way of a target to make the longer kicks more effective.

his shot stopping is good, but his positional play is better. however he doesn't have quick feet, so his work off his line wasn't the best.

howlers are howlers and he has less than most

definitely top 3 in the league

Does anyone no if Ronaldo Wilkins is still at the club?

If we can get a good defensive spine- DM or HM, and a RB, as well as defend from the front, the keeper is less involved. If we can get a half decent keeper who does the basics well we probably come out about even. 

I can't remember any games where Mossy cost us. 

However, that consensus again is that Italiano could have done a lot better for one of the Melbourne (IIRC) games? 

On the other hand I can think of one goal that seemed to come directly from a good quick release from Italiano, which I can't remember Moss doing. Which doesn't mean it didn't happen, just I wasn't watching closely. Plus we didn't score a lot at the start of the season. And as someone said the coaching instructions might have been to play out slowly and retain possession. 

It'd be great to have a keeper of Moss' class. It'd be better to have a DM and a RB of that class and a half-decent keeper who maybe has followed the Manny Muscat route to prominence.

As an ex goalkeeper myself, I think Moss is a very good keeper. In terms of a GK importance to a team, its important that they make minimal errors, you dont need to be flashy to be of value. So as long as you employ someone that makes minimal errors you are going to be ok in that department. The skills that make good keepers great are a combination of all of the other things, distribution, organisation, catching the high ball, speed off the line etc. GK is a position where you aren't really noticed unless you do something really good or really bad, I think Moss had his share of both and we can easily survive by hiring someone a little less expensive or not as good all round as him.

What about trying to sign Tamati Williams? At 33 he's not exactly old for a keeper, is a current All White, and has been playing professionally in the Dutch 2nd Division.

I think this is where you might be off the mark. Moss was great at a one off shot stopping, as time went on his control and communication with the back four seemed to get worse - IMO it was never flash. He may not be the only problem we have at the back - Dura/siggy/Lia are/were slow and left the keeper in trouble often. But a good keeper commands the box and Moss never really did that well enough for mine.

Ah, the age old 'Paston is a better communicator' debate.

Big issue is one of balance - we improved our attack under the new coaches which was a problem under Ernie but then became quite vulnerable at the back.  Always felt we needed to score twice to win