Wellington Phoenix Men

Darije Kalezić: We hardly knew ye.

1359 replies · 364,597 views Locked
about 8 years ago

DodgyB wrote:

Bullion wrote:

DodgyB wrote:

Are we not performing in line with our investment?

He looks like a tyrant, Scott Galloway looked like he was going to wet himself when he got dragged up off the bench last week, they must have known that when they appointed him.

That said, the club brought him here, they should give him another season, you cant do much with an inherited squad like ours in less than 12 months.

That's not an indication of what we spend on players' salaries.

Never suggested it was, it is an indication of player value.

Transfermarkt valuations are the most bullshark rating ever. 

Who values these player when no club has paid a transfer fee for them in ages? Where do the valuations come from?

Generally the valuations are based on player ability, so you'd expect this table to match up with the league table, because the best players are near the top of the table. 

In summary, nothing to see here.


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 8 years ago

Lots of 'coach about to get sacked' rumours floating around this morning. Any updates? 

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about 8 years ago · edited about 8 years ago · History

patrick478 wrote:

DodgyB wrote:

Bullion wrote:

DodgyB wrote:

Are we not performing in line with our investment?

He looks like a tyrant, Scott Galloway looked like he was going to wet himself when he got dragged up off the bench last week, they must have known that when they appointed him.

That said, the club brought him here, they should give him another season, you cant do much with an inherited squad like ours in less than 12 months.

That's not an indication of what we spend on players' salaries.

Never suggested it was, it is an indication of player value.

Transfermarkt valuations are the most bullshark rating ever. 

Who values these player when no club has paid a transfer fee for them in ages? Where do the valuations come from?

Generally the valuations are based on player ability, so you'd expect this table to match up with the league table, because the best players are near the top of the table. In summary, nothing to see here.

I disagree. There is a point to consider this table if you assume that the same error of valuations applies evenly to all teams, and is not unevenly spread (for example, biased in favour of teams with longer player retention, as would be my guess).

Then you would compare it side by side with the current HAL ladder. This would indicate that Brisbane underperforms compared to other HAL clubs and that Newcastle performs way above others.   Which may point towards better or worse club owners / managers, IMHO.

I am not saying this table is 100% reliable. I am saying that you could make some assumptions about these values and they may give you useful conclusions as per above, as long as they are taken with a large grain of salt.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 8 years ago

MetalLegNZ wrote:

Sack him and bring Ramon on for the new season.

Greenacre can have the role til the end of the year

Ramon knows NZ football and if there is to be a clean out he is the best placed manager to know what kiwis locally might be worth a shot at the NIX. Also, he has shown to have a good scouting network, so would probably IMO find us better imports than what we have currently.

Finally, he has proven more than anyone, he knows how to get the most out of a team with a limited budget.

Ramon doesnt have the right qualifications (yet) to coach in the a-league and he isn't interested from what I've read on here. Besides sacking the coach in the middle of a season just means we'll end up repeating what we did end of last season, resigning a whole lot of players the new coach won't want.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 8 years ago

You can coach for 12 weeks as a caretaker without having the right qualifications, if Ramon was the right option he can see out the year and finish off his qualifications in the off season.

He's applied for the Phoenix role before (as well as other A-League roles) so no reason why he wouldn't be interested.

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about 8 years ago

What would Declan do?


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about 8 years ago


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about 8 years ago

Ryan wrote:

You can coach for 12 weeks as a caretaker without having the right qualifications, if Ramon was the right option he can see out the year and finish off his qualifications in the off season.

He's applied for the Phoenix role before (as well as other A-League roles) so no reason why he wouldn't be interested.

From what I've heard, Ramon and the Nix aint gonna happen.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 8 years ago

Mainland FC wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

DodgyB wrote:

Bullion wrote:

DodgyB wrote:

Are we not performing in line with our investment?

He looks like a tyrant, Scott Galloway looked like he was going to wet himself when he got dragged up off the bench last week, they must have known that when they appointed him.

That said, the club brought him here, they should give him another season, you cant do much with an inherited squad like ours in less than 12 months.

That's not an indication of what we spend on players' salaries.

Never suggested it was, it is an indication of player value.

Transfermarkt valuations are the most bullshark rating ever. 

Who values these player when no club has paid a transfer fee for them in ages? Where do the valuations come from?

Generally the valuations are based on player ability, so you'd expect this table to match up with the league table, because the best players are near the top of the table. In summary, nothing to see here.

I disagree. There is a point to consider this table if you assume that the same error of valuations applies evenly to all teams, and is not unevenly spread (for example, biased in favour of teams with longer player retention, as would be my guess).

Then you would compare it side by side with the current HAL ladder. This would indicate that Brisbane underperforms compared to other HAL clubs and that Newcastle performs way above others.   Which may point towards better or worse club owners / managers, IMHO.

I am not saying this table is 100% reliable. I am saying that you could make some assumptions about these values and they may give you useful conclusions as per above, as long as they are taken with a large grain of salt.

But valuations change based on performance. When the orignal poster said "in line with our investment" - valuations don't say how much we have invested (possibly infere something).

I don't think we would be investing ~20% less the NUJ on our squad based on those figures.

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about 8 years ago

I miss ernie 

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about 8 years ago

Cmon Darije, get them playing like they did in mid January

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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about 8 years ago

Cmon Darije, get them playing like they did in the first 30 minutes of our first game of the season.

Fixed.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 8 years ago

Board asked for explanations of the results:

He could say: we got some good new guys in and then Roy couldn't play and that spiked the momentum. The off field distractions have damaged the team morale. We have had good performances in patches and a full second season with much less disruption and with players who are familiar with the system and each other is likely to produce better results. 

Good results produce morale and further improved performances. 

But does Roy no longer want to work with Darije? We're not getting Ernie back. 



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about 8 years ago

Can some of the more tactically minded posters comment on whether or not there was a change in game plan by DK when he got rid of Rado - that adversely affected Roy's style of play? 

Just looking for possible reasons or signs that Roy doesnt like the coaching set up.

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about 8 years ago

Can some of the more tactically minded posters comment on whether or not there was a change in game plan by DK when he got rid of Rado - that adversely affected Roy's style of play? 

Just looking for possible reasons or signs that Roy doesnt like the coaching set up.

Why are we thinking Roy doesn't like the coaching set up?

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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about 8 years ago

MetalLegNZ wrote:

Sack him and bring Ramon on for the new season.

Greenacre can have the role til the end of the year

Ramon knows NZ football and if there is to be a clean out he is the best placed manager to know what kiwis locally might be worth a shot at the NIX. Also, he has shown to have a good scouting network, so would probably IMO find us better imports than what we have currently.

Finally, he has proven more than anyone, he knows how to get the most out of a team with a limited budget.

If Darije does go between now and the end of the season, then I really hope the Phoenix do look at Ramon. 

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about 8 years ago

Can some of the more tactically minded posters comment on whether or not there was a change in game plan by DK when he got rid of Rado - that adversely affected Roy's style of play? 

Just looking for possible reasons or signs that Roy doesnt like the coaching set up.

That's my assumption, but then Darije said after the Melbourne city game that you could see how he played in the first game (which was high press and possession football) and the second (which was sit back and attack on the counter) and there is one way that he want's to play and the other that he's having to play now because of the practicalities.

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about 8 years ago

Can some of the more tactically minded posters comment on whether or not there was a change in game plan by DK when he got rid of Rado - that adversely affected Roy's style of play? 

Just looking for possible reasons or signs that Roy doesnt like the coaching set up.

Oh yes definitely...

For example, we were great against Melbourne City in our first game against them away, but we didn't get the result as more work was needed in the front  third. But our shape was very good the full backs defended tight and supported possession well, we moved the ball well and controlled the game for large parts. Defensive transition was good, but attacking transition needed some work because we had little attacking threat against City's two banks of four. But, we had forced them into this negative shape and deserved better from this game. Things looked very encouraging and you could see what the team was trying to do and for the most part they were doing it well, but without tangible reward.

I remember thinking, oh yeah I like this new coach - proper football and a good shape, plenty of passing options etc

However, Rado left and I haven't seen any football like this since. 2 games after Rado left I started wondering if he was the reason we were looking so good earlier on. By this time, the team was not playing football that resembled the Melbourne City game. The style was completely different. Players had become statues and looked uncertain.

Now, I'm fairly sure it was Rado. But who knows right?

360footballnews.com

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about 8 years ago

Can someone who remembers please remind us about the rumors about who was in Rado's camp when the supposed coup took place?

360footballnews.com

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about 8 years ago

reg22 wrote:

Can someone who remembers please remind us about the rumors about who was in Rado's camp when the supposed coup took place?

I'd imagine the players that were locked out of the squad immediately after his departure would give you a good indication.

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about 8 years ago

Can some of the more tactically minded posters comment on whether or not there was a change in game plan by DK when he got rid of Rado - that adversely affected Roy's style of play? 

Just looking for possible reasons or signs that Roy doesnt like the coaching set up.

Why are we thinking Roy doesn't like the coaching set up?

Conjecture earlier in this thread or another - "Roy saying coach goes and I'll re-sign" pay attention please.
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about 8 years ago

I don't think we looked very good last night. We don't seem to function at all up front and don't seem to have a plan for Burns, who should be our best player

However, we looked better at the back. Dura was superb, Galloway mostly held his position and Ridenton did well without the ball to protect the 4 behind him. 

All of which meant we gave ourselves a chance to sneak a result, which of course we did

360footballnews.com

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about 8 years ago

reg22 wrote:

I don't think we looked very good last night. We don't seem to function at all up front and don't seem to have a plan for Burns, who should be our best player

However, we looked better at the back. Dura was superb, Galloway mostly held his position and Ridenton did well without the ball to protect the 4 behind him. 

All of which meant we gave ourselves a chance to sneak a result, which of course we did

I think we were lucky because we were not the better team. However, throughout this season, we also lost games like that (the 2:3 against the Victory still rankles with me). So I will take this is a lucky win.   On the other hand, if we cannot at least draw away with CCM, it will show that far more work is needed. And AK9 should not be consistently missing sitters just because they require him to use his feet.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 8 years ago

Ryan wrote:

According to this article:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/10...

There is a clause in Darije's contract that he can be sacked if the team doesn't make the finals.

Can, not will?


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 8 years ago · edited about 8 years ago · History

Well the rumors last week indicate "have" , but they're just rumors. Darije looked out of sorts in the press conference but maybe I'm just reading a Krishna into it.

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about 8 years ago

'reading a krishna' love it

whatever's happening, there's definitely a whole lot going on here and has been for a while. there's just so much noise and so many facets to take in from so many official and unoffical sources

360footballnews.com

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about 8 years ago · edited about 8 years ago · History

Do we agree that this is the most turbulent season in our history? On and off the field? Can't remember another season with so many sub plots, dramas and problems.

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about 8 years ago

So what was the outcome of last week's meeting then?
Just the board telling him to start winning some games? Is that it?


VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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about 8 years ago

The Terry issues were shorter though with WelNix stepping in and saving the team before things got too bad in the open. We've had a turbulent few years, starting with the save the nix season and continuing through to Ernie's resignation and then to now. It's probably all related.

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about 8 years ago

So what was the outcome of last week's meeting then?
Just the board telling him to start winning some games? Is that it?

your guess is as good as mine. like many on here i've been connecting dots and there are quite a few dots which gives plenty of clues but no where near enough dots to draw a complete picture and the chances are what i think looks like a tree is in fact a wheelbarrow...

i reckon he's been told he's definitely out if they don't make the top six and he's free to leave early if he wants. 

i'm also guessing he will currently be actively on the job market. the reason he is sticking around is for one to be paid and also for the benefits of the appearance of having coached a complete season with a smooth and amicable departure.

360footballnews.com

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about 8 years ago

So what was the outcome of last week's meeting then?
Just the board telling him to start winning some games? Is that it?

If there was any meeting last week. This is based on unfounded speculation, remember. If Roy's price for resigning was "ditch the coach", then why is the coach still there and Roy is back and playing?


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 8 years ago

reg22 wrote:

Can some of the more tactically minded posters comment on whether or not there was a change in game plan by DK when he got rid of Rado - that adversely affected Roy's style of play? 

Just looking for possible reasons or signs that Roy doesnt like the coaching set up.

Oh yes definitely...

For example, we were great against Melbourne City in our first game against them away, but we didn't get the result as more work was needed in the front  third. But our shape was very good the full backs defended tight and supported possession well, we moved the ball well and controlled the game for large parts. Defensive transition was good, but attacking transition needed some work because we had little attacking threat against City's two banks of four. But, we had forced them into this negative shape and deserved better from this game. Things looked very encouraging and you could see what the team was trying to do and for the most part they were doing it well, but without tangible reward.

I remember thinking, oh yeah I like this new coach - proper football and a good shape, plenty of passing options etc

However, Rado left and I haven't seen any football like this since. 2 games after Rado left I started wondering if he was the reason we were looking so good earlier on. By this time, the team was not playing football that resembled the Melbourne City game. The style was completely different. Players had become statues and looked uncertain.

Now, I'm fairly sure it was Rado. But who knows right?

I've been wondering this too.

That Melbourne City game was insane. The level of play in our midfield that day was as good as anything I've ever seen from the Nix, we were desperately unlucky to lose. I thought it was a matter of time until everything clicked after watching that game. 

It's very disappointing what has happened since then. 

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about 8 years ago

So much 2+2=5 in this thread!

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about 8 years ago

I'd be surprised if Krishna was re-signed on the proviso that Kelezic left, I'm more inclined to think that it's a coincidence of timing. The board probably met to do a number of things, including approving Krishna's contract and discuss Kelezic. Because they meet quarterly or whatever the decisions were deferred to then.

Darije himself isn't talking like a man who needs to make the finals, he's all but given up on them and is talking about building for next year with this "natural selection" businesses.

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about 8 years ago

paulm wrote:

So much 2+2=5 in this thread!

I didn't think Chinese whispers were this quick - #denyracistovertones
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about 8 years ago

paulm wrote:

So much 2+2=5 in this thread!

Somebody who is close to any of the nix players needs to get an old tv from somewhere, and talk them into putting it on vic deals under their name.

Watch the hilarity ensue. 

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