Wellington Phoenix Men

Ernie Merrick - former Phoenix manager

3094 replies · 671,649 views
almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History



Good article that.

Thought this was a big call:

Carlos Hernandez is the only confirmed new signing for next season and that is how it will remain until the head coach is appointed.

Defence and midfield are the obvious areas that need strengthening.

"What we want to do is give the incoming head coach as much flexibility as possible to bring in his own players," Dome said.

But he is aware any delays in that appointment will have a knock-on effect in recruitment.

"We are conscious of it. But the idea is that we're going to move on the head coach as fast as we can and we can't move any faster than we are without making mistakes," he added.

"We want to make sure we get absolutely the right person because it is the most important appointment the club will make since we started. We want to get it right.

"Does that mean we might miss out on players? Potentially, but hopefully not.

"Hopefully the new coach coming in will at least be able to say 'Well we missed out on that player but I've got this contact here which can get us a player who is at least as good'. That's the trade-off that we've made."

It will be interesting to see if any of the off-contract players have already sorted themselves out elsewhere by the time the new coach gets here.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Bertos said he's had a few interests. Wants to stay.

 

I think we're served not to badly by Emma Stoney.

A fan is a fan.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

If we get desperate we can always ask John key if any of his mates are up for it 


Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Funny how a journalist with no agenda or bias can write good stories.

Grumpy old bastard alert

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago


Brethren Nix - why not?


    COYN     


Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Wonder if Nelly has any interest in Bertos/Lochhead. Sounds like they have (among other things) right wing and left back issues.


Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

yellowsite wrote:

Bertos said he's had a few interests. Wants to stay.

 

I think we're served not to badly by Emma Stoney.



Yeah, she's good. Based in Wellington apparently.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

hamezilla wrote:


Brethren Nix - why not?

Their halls could make an excellent indoor stadium, without to much work.

A fan is a fan.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

yellowsite wrote:

Bertos said he's had a few interests. Wants to stay.

 

I think we're served not to badly by Emma Stoney.



Yeah, she's good. Based in Wellington apparently.


omnisport? hmm safe, syndicated journalism. no thanks


Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

It shine's amongst the other offerings.

A fan is a fan.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History

Jeff Vader wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

Fuck knows what you're on about Frankie. I'll just answer some questions I think you might have asked.


"Termy X - as one of the most intelligent and insightful posters on the forum surely you're not saying that decent Aussie players won't want to play for a good international manager?"

No, I'm not saying that. But I am saying:

a) that an Aussie coach might do a better job of targeting Aussies who give us what we need

b) that an Aussie possibly has a better chance of attracting some of those players through personal contacts

c) that we are unlikely to be able to afford the kind of international coach whose reputation would supersede points a) and b)

And I definitely think that appointing someone like Hugo Sanchez would be a fucking train-wreck. Just not what we need at all.


"Why is it the coaches job to arrive on day 1 with a list of signings he intends to try and make?  Surely the club does the scouting?.  If I was manager being interviewed by Welnix, I would be asking them who the club is targetting"

I'm inclined to agree. However, I do think it is a damn good interview question for a candidate - who would you target and why? Get a feel for how much they understand the club's current playing stocks, the issues, and how much knowledge they have of potential Aussies who could provide remedies, because you are right that we will need to recruit Aussies in those key positions.


"Why ask the candidates which off-contract players they might re-sign? The way a number of key players fucked off for most of the season until Herbert was sacked, I would imagine that a coach of any nationality would say that they would be happy to get rid of the the majority of the squad"

Much the same answer as the previous question really. Just a good line of inquiry in an interview to find out how much research they've done. Yes, they might say "get rid of them all" or they might say "definitely keep Bertos, he would fit with my plans". Either way, it would be good to know what these prospective coaches think. Personally I hope the new coach comes in and cleans house.


"Thanks for answering my questions Termy X, you're awesome"

It's a pleasure.

Hard to fault that logic.


Quite faulty logic I think..

a) that an Aussie coach might do a better job of targeting Aussies who give us what we need

Why would an Aussie coach be able to do necessarily do that better??  The reality is that the good Aussie coaches are already employed at the top clubs. They wont be coming here. The ones that are available are 2nd tier now, assistants or the like, havent been in charge of an A League team, untried and unproven. They will be worse at spotting talent then an experienced coach with a good record from overseas

b) that an Aussie possibly has a better chance of attracting some of those players through personal contacts

Same argument. In fact even poorer. An untried Aussie coach wont be better at attracting players, wont have any particularly strong contacts from coaching 2nd tier. Seriously, it is not as if coaches go round making themselves known to all the local up and comers after games. That is the job of your scouts to look for talent, and I expect the Nix will have their scouts in Australia.  If you were a keen young player, wouldn't you rather throw your tape at a proven O/s coach ? Yes, definitely, compared to the ex Mariners Assistant say

c) that we are unlikely to be able to afford the kind of international coach whose reputation would supersede points a) and b)

Well that is conjecture. Who knows what the salary will be and what the Nix 9 will pay, they have certainly learned a bit about what is required this year

We need the best available from the 300 applicants, it does not matter where he comes from.

Edit: Further to that, I think after 5 yrs of Ricki who didnt know how to win, we need a proven winner, and unknown Aussies are not the answer
Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

^^^^^

Should have used quotes 

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Agree with Hepatitis, can't get my head around this Aussie will be better view-point. Also, how do we know what Welnix are prepared to spend on a coach? Its an entirely different proposition to buying players.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

As an aside when are we going to hear from Ricki about his reasons for "resigning"?  I'm surprised no-one has chased the story it would be a pretty good scoop for someone.  Doesn't reflect that well on him that he hasn't even thanked the club and the fans for a pretty generous send off

Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

As an aside when are we going to hear from Ricki about his reasons for "resigning"?  I'm surprised no-one has chased the story it would be a pretty good scoop for someone.  Doesn't reflect that well on him that he hasn't even thanked the club and the fans for a pretty generous send off

you mean Sir Ricki?

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

As an aside when are we going to hear from Ricki about his reasons for "resigning"?  I'm surprised no-one has chased the story it would be a pretty good scoop for someone.  Doesn't reflect that well on him that he hasn't even thanked the club and the fans for a pretty generous send off

I think this might have something to do with the "technical football advisor" role Ricki took up. Welnix are paying him a little bit of money on the side to do this essentially meaningless job, which in turn keeps him quiet about his time at the Nix. Quite an astute little bit of business from Welnix's perspective.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

james dean wrote:

As an aside when are we going to hear from Ricki about his reasons for "resigning"?  I'm surprised no-one has chased the story it would be a pretty good scoop for someone.  Doesn't reflect that well on him that he hasn't even thanked the club and the fans for a pretty generous send off

I think this might have something to do with the "technical football advisor" role Ricki took up. Welnix are paying him a little bit of money on the side to do this essentially meaningless job, which in turn keeps him quiet about his time at the Nix. Quite an astute little bit of business from Welnix's perspective.
Thats what I kinda meant it to mean as well. Same with Terry and the patron position. He can hardly go stick the knife into the guys that made him patron of the club he founded and they took over.

Grumpy old bastard alert

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History


From a different perspective, one might argue that the club is in serious trouble.All that has really happened is that our coach is gone,the fans have been alienated,our players disillusioned and the new owners only looking to profit financially from their tenure.

Luckily I am interpreting my statement as depressed off-season raving.As you were


    COYN     


Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History

hamezilla wrote:


From a different perspective, one might argue that the club is in serious trouble.All that has really happened is that 

our coach is gone (happens in world football all the time)

the fans have been alienated (we still have a good core support of 6000 turning up to every weekend game)

our players disillusioned (the players look like they care again now that Ricki has left) 

the new owners only looking to profit financially from their tenure (this is just not true. The owners (especially Henry)  love football, and they want to help develop the game in NZ (this is mainly Gareth). Their financial aim is to bring the club into a position where it will make profit, but they have several other aims outside of the finances).

Luckily I am interpreting my statement as depressed off-season raving.As you were

 My responses are in bold above ^^.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago


My new attempt at sobriety isnt sitting well with my Nix supporter self(which requires large amounts of alcohol)


    COYN     


Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

 (the players look like they care again now that Ricki has left) 

Be disappointing if it was thought just that simple, given the content in media, in the last few months.

A fan is a fan.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

hamezilla wrote:


the new owners only looking to profit financially from their tenure (this is just not true. The owners (especially Henry)  love football

 My responses are in bold above ^^.

Lets see it.

A fan is a fan.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

 they want to help develop the game in NZ (this is mainly Gareth).

Do you ask yourself why he is proponent of this.

A fan is a fan.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

hepatitis wrote:
Edit: Further to that, I think after 5 yrs of Ricki who didnt know how to win, we need a proven winner, and unknown Aussies are not the answer


Hepatitis - you do realise that 4 years ago both Ange Postecoglou and Graham Arnold were what you would have called "untried" or "unknown" Aussies?

You're right that nationality shouldn't be important though. However, a deep understanding of the Australian and New Zealand talent pool, and the contacts and credibility to get some of those players to the Nix, is going to be crucial. If we can find that in an overseas coach we can afford then great.


Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

yellowsite wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

hamezilla wrote:


the new owners only looking to profit financially from their tenure (this is just not true. The owners (especially Henry)  love football

 My responses are in bold above ^^.

Lets see it.

If you get a chance, have a chat to Henry. He's been following football for many years, and even gets down to watch the Tee Dubs play. He's invested a lot of money into the flags and banners that the Fever have, and he really does love seeing the support for both our football club, and other football clubs around the league. 

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Cool.

A fan is a fan.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

yellowsite wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

 they want to help develop the game in NZ (this is mainly Gareth).

Do you ask yourself why he is proponent of this.

Again, have a chat to him. When I spoke to him in Dunedin after the Roar game in 2011, it was his aim to make football as big as rugby in the country by the 2016  World Cup. While I didn't have the heart to tell him that he is dreaming, this goes along with his philosphy that when he starts something, he will aim high and do his absolute best to bring his project to completion (look at cats for example, he's still sticking with it despite the public opinions on it). 

Anyway, this is not the ownership thread so we should get back on topic.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

yellowsite wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

 they want to help develop the game in NZ (this is mainly Gareth).

Do you ask yourself why he is proponent of this.

Again, have a chat to him. When I spoke to him in Dunedin after the Roar game in 2011, it was his aim to make football as big as rugby in the country by the 2016  World Cup. While I didn't have the heart to tell him that he is dreaming, this goes along with his philosphy that when he starts something, he will aim high and do his absolute best to bring his project to completion (look at cats for example, he's still sticking with it despite the public opinions on it). 

Anyway, this is not the ownership thread so we should get back on topic.
Sounds like something Gareth would say..
Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

hamezilla wrote:


From a different perspective, one might argue that the club is in serious trouble.All that has really happened is that 

our coach is gone (happens in world football all the time)

the fans have been alienated (we still have a good core support of 6000 turning up to every weekend game)

our players disillusioned (the players look like they care again now that Ricki has left) 

the new owners only looking to profit financially from their tenure (this is just not true. The owners (especially Henry)  love football, and they want to help develop the game in NZ (this is mainly Gareth). Their financial aim is to bring the club into a position where it will make profit, but they have several other aims outside of the finances).

Luckily I am interpreting my statement as depressed off-season raving.As you were

 My responses are in bold above ^^.
Patrick I like your posts. For a young guy, you seem well reasoned, more so than my old ass. I know that the owners have said that they want the club to be be self sustaining but I have to ask what these other aims are?

Grumpy old bastard alert

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

AJ13 wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

yellowsite wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

 they want to help develop the game in NZ (this is mainly Gareth).

Do you ask yourself why he is proponent of this.

Again, have a chat to him. When I spoke to him in Dunedin after the Roar game in 2011, it was his aim to make football as big as rugby in the country by the 2016  World Cup. While I didn't have the heart to tell him that he is dreaming, this goes along with his philosphy that when he starts something, he will aim high and do his absolute best to bring his project to completion (look at cats for example, he's still sticking with it despite the public opinions on it). 

Anyway, this is not the ownership thread so we should get back on topic.
Sounds like something Gareth would say..


Whoops, my typo.  


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

hamezilla wrote:


From a different perspective, one might argue that the club is in serious trouble.All that has really happened is that 

our coach is gone (happens in world football all the time)

the fans have been alienated (we still have a good core support of 6000 turning up to every weekend game)

our players disillusioned (the players look like they care again now that Ricki has left) 

the new owners only looking to profit financially from their tenure (this is just not true. The owners (especially Henry)  love football, and they want to help develop the game in NZ (this is mainly Gareth). Their financial aim is to bring the club into a position where it will make profit, but they have several other aims outside of the finances).

Luckily I am interpreting my statement as depressed off-season raving.As you were

 My responses are in bold above ^^.
Patrick I like your posts. For a young guy, you seem well reasoned, more so than my old ass. I know that the owners have said that they want the club to be be self sustaining but I have to ask what these other aims are?


For a start, they want to win the league. That's an easy one to forget, but it's the underlying purpose behind anything that happens in the club. 

 Gareth has a focus on developing young NZ talent, which is why he set up the Academy. The other aims that I can think of of the top of my head are all related to wanting to turn a profit (ie wanting to grow the Phoenix brand around the country,  and to grow the supporter base). 



Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

hepatitis wrote:
Edit: Further to that, I think after 5 yrs of Ricki who didnt know how to win, we need a proven winner, and unknown Aussies are not the answer


Hepatitis - you do realise that 4 years ago both Ange Postecoglou and Graham Arnold were what you would have called "untried" or "unknown" Aussies?

You're right that nationality shouldn't be important though. However, a deep understanding of the Australian and New Zealand talent pool, and the contacts and credibility to get some of those players to the Nix, is going to be crucial. If we can find that in an overseas coach we can afford then great.


weren't they both national coaches though? under 20 and full side?
Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

hepatitis wrote:
Edit: Further to that, I think after 5 yrs of Ricki who didnt know how to win, we need a proven winner, and unknown Aussies are not the answer


Hepatitis - you do realise that 4 years ago both Ange Postecoglou and Graham Arnold were what you would have called "untried" or "unknown" Aussies?

You're right that nationality shouldn't be important though. However, a deep understanding of the Australian and New Zealand talent pool, and the contacts and credibility to get some of those players to the Nix, is going to be crucial. If we can find that in an overseas coach we can afford then great.



Both those 2 had some experience.

Surely it is possible that an assistant / team management can have the "deep understanding of the Aus/NZ pool " if you have a foreign coach. In our case we have Ricki (sarcy emoticon there), and Greenie.

My concern is that we need to have a good next season with results. I dont think it is the time to experiment to see if someone is any good or not, if they havent coached at this level. Please open your pockets Welnix, first with the coach, and then with some players






Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History

terminator_x wrote:

hepatitis wrote:
Edit: Further to that, I think after 5 yrs of Ricki who didnt know how to win, we need a proven winner, and unknown Aussies are not the answer


Hepatitis - you do realise that 4 years ago both Ange Postecoglou and Graham Arnold were what you would have called "untried" or "unknown" Aussies?

You're right that nationality shouldn't be important though. However, a deep understanding of the Australian and New Zealand talent pool, and the contacts and credibility to get some of those players to the Nix, is going to be crucial. If we can find that in an overseas coach we can afford then great.


weren't they both national coaches though? under 20 and full side?
Ange won the NSL twice and spent 7 years as coach of the Aussie u20 side. Arnold is a former Socceroos assistant (twice) & head coach. They hardly could be called untried or unknown. Both of them came into the A-League looking to repair their tarnished reputations.
Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

hepatitis wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

hepatitis wrote:
Edit: Further to that, I think after 5 yrs of Ricki who didnt know how to win, we need a proven winner, and unknown Aussies are not the answer


Hepatitis - you do realise that 4 years ago both Ange Postecoglou and Graham Arnold were what you would have called "untried" or "unknown" Aussies?

You're right that nationality shouldn't be important though. However, a deep understanding of the Australian and New Zealand talent pool, and the contacts and credibility to get some of those players to the Nix, is going to be crucial. If we can find that in an overseas coach we can afford then great.



Both those 2 had some experience.

Surely it is possible that an assistant / team management can have the "deep understanding of the Aus/NZ pool " if you have a foreign coach. In our case we have Ricki (sarcy emoticon there), and Greenie.

My concern is that we need to have a good next season with results. I dont think it is the time to experiment to see if someone is any good or not, if they havent coached at this level. Please open your pockets Welnix, first with the coach, and then with some players
I think the value that an assistant can provide in our setup is severely under estimated. If we have a quality Australian assistant then that can be the man that attracts the players of calibre from within the region. I think when you combine that with the coach, there is another avenue to use a 'coach' and not necessarily a head coach, to attract good Aussie players.

Grumpy old bastard alert

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

hepatitis wrote:
Edit: Further to that, I think after 5 yrs of Ricki who didnt know how to win, we need a proven winner, and unknown Aussies are not the answer


Hepatitis - you do realise that 4 years ago both Ange Postecoglou and Graham Arnold were what you would have called "untried" or "unknown" Aussies?

You're right that nationality shouldn't be important though. However, a deep understanding of the Australian and New Zealand talent pool, and the contacts and credibility to get some of those players to the Nix, is going to be crucial. If we can find that in an overseas coach we can afford then great.


weren't they both national coaches though? under 20 and full side?


Yes, and guess what? There are candidates out there now with similar experience. That's my point.

Graham Arnold's tenure as national coach was also a bit of a disaster, and hardly added to his reputation. Despite that he's been a success in the A-League.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

hepatitis wrote:
Edit: Further to that, I think after 5 yrs of Ricki who didnt know how to win, we need a proven winner, and unknown Aussies are not the answer


Hepatitis - you do realise that 4 years ago both Ange Postecoglou and Graham Arnold were what you would have called "untried" or "unknown" Aussies?

You're right that nationality shouldn't be important though. However, a deep understanding of the Australian and New Zealand talent pool, and the contacts and credibility to get some of those players to the Nix, is going to be crucial. If we can find that in an overseas coach we can afford then great.


weren't they both national coaches though? under 20 and full side?


Yes, and guess what? There are candidates out there now with similar experience. That's my point.

Graham Arnold's tenure as national coach was also a bit of a disaster, and hardly added to his reputation. Despite that he's been a success in the A-League.

Who are these people please?
Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Aussie u17 - coach Alistair Edwards

Aussie u20 - coach Paul Okon

Aussie u23 - coach Aurelio Vidmar

These are the current Aussie age group coaches. Edwards is now in charge of the Glory, Okon is heavily linked with the Adelaide job. So that leaves Vidmar if you want someone that knows the current Aussie youth players. Previous to those appointments Jan Versleijen was in charge of the u17 & u20 from memory.

Permalink Permalink
almost 13 years ago

Aussie u17 - coach Alistair Edwards

Aussie u20 - coach Paul Okon

Aussie u23 - coach Aurelio Vidmar

These are the current Aussie age group coaches. Edwards is now in charge of the Glory, Okon is heavily linked with the Adelaide job. So that leaves Vidmar if you want someone that knows the current Aussie youth players. Previous to those appointments Jan Versleijen was in charge of the u17 & u20 from memory.


Why do we need to tap aussie youth NO F'N NO!


Permalink Permalink