Wellington Phoenix Men

Marco - we are like so totally over you n

1798 replies · 17,953 views
about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Even if that turned out to be the case it's hardly indicative of a broader problem.  It just might mean that there was an issue in this one case.
 
We all know why Smeltz left, we all understand why Moss left, and we have a fair idea why Kosta left.  It's not some deep seated problem with the Phoenix as some seem determined to believe.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Broader problem... blah, blah blah... Wellington doomed... nix play shiiite football... it's like reading an NBR article.


In any breakup, the jilted party alternates between demonising their ex, and blaming themselves. We have seen both those extremes in this thread.

I must say I fall into the "blaming ourselves" category, on the grounds that not only Marco but every single other good player we have who's not on contract is walking. I am really convinced that there is a broader problem at the Nix, which is probably either dissatisfaction with Ricki or a belief that the club is doomed because of Terry's money worries. No matter whether the latter has any real foundation - and I'm personally optimistic that Terry's money worries will be sorted out very soon - it's the perception, spread by gossip and Doom Post/NBR articles that is the worry, and clearly Nix management are not doing enough to quell those beliefs. Bring back Tony P - he could have talked Rodi into letting Marco stay.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Even if that turned out to be the case it's hardly indicative of a broader problem.  It just might mean that there was an issue in this one case.
 
We all know why Smeltz left, we all understand why Moss left, and we have a fair idea why Kosta left.  It's not some deep seated problem with the Phoenix as some seem determined to believe.
Oh of course. I'm just explaining possible rationale. It isn't an obvious pattern,so it is pure speculation. Nobody actually knows why hes left. the only reason he has given doesn't even make sense.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
meh people making up reasons and stating them as fact to to try prove their own gripes/favourtie troll topics.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
[QUOTE=Hard News] <snip>I must say I fall into the "blaming ourselves" category, on the grounds that not only Marco but every single other good player we have who's not on contract is walking.....<snip>
 
Such as? I haven't heard anything definitive about anybody walking.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
News, did you mean in the Vinnie Lia closed thread that Marco hasn't actually signed for Melbin yet?

Is there still negotiating going on or is it indeed a done deal?

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Marco has offers from a number of clubs including the Phoenix in front of him.  Providing the club and the less balanced memebers of our fanbase don't cock it up all the options are still open to him.
 
It's what I was saying all day yesterday but it kind of got buried.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
That's right Tegal.Straw clutching,last gasping Hope.I'll take it if it's on offer.


Buried is right News! I saw your raised hand in  the "tsunami" of comments last night,but it was overwhelming, everyone treating it as a done deal.

Yes I hope some of our younger and/or volatile members haven't "sh*t in the nest" on the social sites.
Where's Terminator X? More Rojas love needed,less angsty,
RedGed2011-02-28 12:18:11

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
I haven't heard anything definitive about anybody walking.


It seems to be "common knowledge" that Nicky Ward wants to go back to Aussie and that he has a good dialogue with the Heart going on. I also hear that D-Mac wants to stay but Ricki doesn't really want him. This is all speculation but it's undisputed speculation.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I guess the Nix and Marcwho? should really sue the papers for reporting something that's in the air but not official yet. I can quote at least two papers saying that "the youngster has informed the Nix that he has signed a 2-year deal with the Tards"

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Marco has offers from a number of clubs including the Phoenix in front of him.  Providing the club and the less balanced memebers of our fanbase don't cock it up all the options are still open to him.
 
It's what I was saying all day yesterday but it kind of got buried.
Well yes.
Except
 
"We felt that there was still a lot of room for Marco to grow within the Phoenix environment so we are disappointed he's going somewhere else within the A-League."
 

"Melbourne Victory have obviously got a big history as a club. They are the leading club in the A-League," Greenham said.

"So if that is the reason then I can sort of understand Marco's decision, but it's never nice to see a Kiwi kid go offshore. "

Our very own CEO seems convinced he's made his decision. So he may not end up at the Victory. But he isn't staying here. Barring a Rooney style turnaround.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
It seems to be "common knowledge" that Nicky Ward wants to go back to Aussie and that he has a good dialogue with the Heart going on. I also hear that D-Mac wants to stay but Ricki doesn't really want him. This is all speculation but it's undisputed speculation
 
In that case, it's only Ward who is walking. D-Mac isn't walking, he's being pushed.
 
Again, Ward came here when nobody else wanted him. I'm sure he never saw us a permanent option and was probably looking to get back to Aus as quickly as he could.
 
It's hardly a mass exodus, is it?
Jag2011-02-28 12:25:52

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
Our very own CEO seems convinced he's made his decision. So he may not end up at the Victory. But he isn't staying here. Barring a Rooney style turnaround.


I thought the stuff article quoted a club spokesman as saying marco had told the club he had signed, rather than he was about to sign?
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Isn't it around now that Ashton Kutcher pops up and tells us we've all been Punk'd?

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I was going by actual quotes.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
Isn't it around now that Ashton Kutcher pops up and tells us we've all been Punk'd?


or some Melbin threadster who has taken trolling to a whole new level of angstmania.

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I did read on 442.au that a consideration might have been around future transfer fee being higher at the 'nix. Might be pure speculation, mind.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He is an exciting young prospect, but let's not lose sight of the fact he played about 20 games. History is littered with flash in the pans.
Also, if we have one youngster with his potential, I have full confidence that there are similar undiscovered youngsters out there playing for Motueka Kickaballs Club or something. We've found him and Barbarouses, we'll find another.

EDIT: To be brutally honest I'm far more upset that Vukovic moved on.
GI_Joe2011-02-28 12:55:05
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm gonna work for a British Newspaper. Amazing how easy it is to make up rumours and people to take them as fact.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
simon_hampton wrote:
I'm gonna work for a British Newspaper. Amazing how easy it is to make up rumours and people to take them as fact.
Like what in this case?
 
The only ridiculous rumours and speculation i have seen are on these forums,and 442. Not in the papers,for once.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rjmiller wrote:
It's not just for the sake of loyalty.�Previous post stated other reasons why I think this is a risky move from him with not one hell of a lot to gain.


You're letting the emotions get in the way of clear thinking - have you actually thought about the rewards he may reap if he's successful at Victory?

Why are you assuming that there's no risk involved if he stayed at the Phoenix?
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
 You're letting the emotions get in the way of clear thinking ....<chop>
 
It's a football supporters forum, EG. Just saying.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Need to be careful that we don't get get caught up in the 'big club' attitude.  It's not like we're Orient to the Victory's Arsenal.  It's not the sort of transfer where you think, oh yes glad he's getting a chance with a bigger club. 
 
He's going to the club that finished one place ahead of us in the final wash-up for the last two seasons, a club that may have Kevin Muscat as a guinea pig style coach.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What we should take from this, is New Zealand is producing great footballers, both Marco and Kosta have great careers ahead of them. This can only benefit NZ Football.
They are role models for our young hopefulls, this should have a great impact on encouraging new kids into the game.
Casting them out as herotics is not a good impression, yes, it's sad to lose them, but the team cannot rely on one player to take them to the top.
Marco delievered when we needed it most and we should be greatful, I for one wish him a great career and look forward to seeing him playing for the All Whites.


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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
 You're letting the emotions get in the way of clear thinking ....<chop>
 
It's a football supporters forum, EG. Just saying.
and we are Phoenix fans in case you have forgotten El Grap. Oh and we hate Melbourne

Founder

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Anyway, we all know how it works round here:
 

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zapdog wrote:
What we should take from this, is New Zealand is producing great footballers, both Marco and Kosta have great careers ahead of them. This can only benefit NZ Football.
They are role models for our young hopefulls, this should have a great impact on encouraging new kids into the game.
Casting them out as herotics is not a good impression, yes, it's sad to lose them, but the team cannot rely on one player to take them to the top.
Marco delievered when we needed it most and we should be greatful, I for one wish him a great career and look forward to seeing him playing for the All Whites.
 
This.
 
NB: It's "heretic" not herotic.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
Hard News wrote:
Broader problem... blah, blah blah... Wellington doomed... nix play shiiite football... it's like reading an NBR article.


In any breakup, the jilted party alternates between demonising their ex, and blaming themselves. We have seen both those extremes in this thread.

I must say I fall into the "blaming ourselves" category, on the grounds that not only Marco but every single other good player we have who's not on contract is walking. I am really convinced that there is a broader problem at the Nix, which is probably either dissatisfaction with Ricki or a belief that the club is doomed because of Terry's money worries. No matter whether the latter has any real foundation - and I'm personally optimistic that Terry's money worries will be sorted out very soon - it's the perception, spread by gossip and Doom Post/NBR articles that is the worry, and clearly Nix management are not doing enough to quell those beliefs. Bring back Tony P - he could have talked Rodi into letting Marco stay.
 
On the flip side Siggy, Dura, Greenie, Iffs and a bunch of others re-signed during this season and are on contract at least until the money runs out.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
rjmiller wrote:
It's not just for the sake of loyalty. Previous post stated other reasons why I think this is a risky move from him with not one hell of a lot to gain.


You're letting the emotions get in the way of clear thinking - have you actually thought about the rewards he may reap if he's successful at Victory?

Why are you assuming that there's no risk involved if he stayed at the Phoenix?
Explain to me why the rewards are that much higher if he goes to Melbourne and is succesful than if he is successful here. I believe the level of exposure and the chances of reaching europe are the same at either club. The only extra I can think of is the ACL, however most of the young players from the a-league that get to europe have done so without participating in the ACL.
 
It is almost certainly riskier going to Melbourne simply because things were going so well for him here. The more changes there are the more things can go wrong.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Need to be careful that we don't get get caught up in the 'big club' attitude.� It's not like we're Orient to the Victory's Arsenal.� It's not the sort of transfer where you think, oh yes glad he's getting a chance with a bigger club.�
�

He's going to the club that finished one place ahead of us in the final wash-up for the last two seasons, a club that may have Kevin Muscat as a guinea pig style coach.


But let's not also fall into the trap 'oh, it's all the same in the A-league' when it's clearly not. Especially comparing the Victory and the Phoenix.

The other thing getting on my nerves is the mass of people who don't know one thing about Marco's situation just know this move is wrong and stupid. If a complete stranger came up to me and said "Listen, I don't really know anything about your life at the moment, but I think what you're doing is wrong and completely stupid" I'd deck him before he finished speaking.

Yes, we'd all love Marco to have stayed with the Phoenix fo another couple of seasons, he hasn't and we're all disappointed. But it's not the end of the world, and there's no need for vicious personal attacks the likes of which we've seen here since yesterday. The reality is 99% of the clubs in the world are unable to hold on to their best players, for whatever reason, and the Phoenix isn't in that 1%. Get used to it.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I hate seeing him go, but if he seriously thinks it's a better move for his career then fair enough. I don't see how this is anything but a bad idea, but I'm not in his shoes.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
One weekend in Melbourne and you're a Victory fan.  You're dead to me Boxy.
 
You back yet or doing this from Victory HQ where you are negotiating your own transfer?
Hard News2011-02-28 13:42:44

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oh jesus.  Fallon... how about someone relevant?
 
It wasn't a one year contract.  I've heard more ill-informed bullsh*t about this than the Halberg story.  Why can't people do some basic f**king research.
Hard News2011-02-28 13:49:37

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rjmiller wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
rjmiller wrote:
It's not just for the sake of loyalty.�Previous post stated other reasons why I think this is a risky move from him with not one hell of a lot to gain.
You're letting the emotions get in the way of clear thinking - have you actually thought about the rewards he may reap if he's successful at Victory? Why are you assuming that there's no risk involved if he stayed at the Phoenix?

Explain to me�why the rewards are that much higher if he goes to Melbourne and is succesful than if he is successful here. I believe the level of exposure and the chances of reaching europe are the same at either club. The only extra I can think of is the ACL, however most of the young players from the a-league that get to europe have done so without participating in the ACL.
�

It is almost certainly riskier�going to�Melbourne simply because things were going so well for him here. The more changes there are the more things can go wrong.


As a two-time A-league champion from a big city Victory are certainly perceived as a bigger club from this league with a proven track record.

As for the Phoenix...not exactly a great track record in getting young (or really any) players into Europe. And what if Marco's thinking was influenced by Ifill's second season here? Being targeted as the chief attacking threat, kicked mercilessly, and ends up with a broken leg and never returns as the same player?
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
And what if Marco's thinking was influenced by Ifill's second season here? Being targeted as the chief attacking threat, kicked mercilessly, and ends up with a broken leg and never returns as the same player?


I can certainly see the point of Marco not wanting to ever play against the Victory again, when you put it like that.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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