Wellington Phoenix Men

Phoenix Transfer Speculation 2013/14

4835 replies · 677,025 views
over 12 years ago
Seb wrote:
the ant wrote:

I would think the conversion rate for academy inductees to fully fledged professional players must be relatively low. In countries where football is a major sport probably 1 in a 1000 trialists will be admitted into an academy. Of those lucky enough to be I would suspect between 1 in 10 to 1 in 5 get senior contracts. The success rate would be higher at top clubs simply because they have huge resources and networks to draw on.


The conversion rate from a youth team player to a full time professional within the specific club is much much lower in top clubs. The bar is set so high in clubs such as Man U etc that very few youth team players make the step up through the system within their own club. However, youth team players at big clubs generally have a better chance of getting professional contracts with lower tier clubs. Having 'Manchester United youth team player' on your cv is not a bad start for aspiring footballers. 


I'd say that on average, 1 out of 10 youth team players are offered a full time professional contract within their own club.

Middlesbrough has a great youth academy so Im in favour of the Nix one..it will churn out product from what we have to start with.

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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over 12 years ago
Boro4eva wrote:
Seb wrote:
the ant wrote:

I would think the conversion rate for academy inductees to fully fledged professional players must be relatively low. In countries where football is a major sport probably 1 in a 1000 trialists will be admitted into an academy. Of those lucky enough to be I would suspect between 1 in 10 to 1 in 5 get senior contracts. The success rate would be higher at top clubs simply because they have huge resources and networks to draw on.


The conversion rate from a youth team player to a full time professional within the specific club is much much lower in top clubs. The bar is set so high in clubs such as Man U etc that very few youth team players make the step up through the system within their own club. However, youth team players at big clubs generally have a better chance of getting professional contracts with lower tier clubs. Having 'Manchester United youth team player' on your cv is not a bad start for aspiring footballers. 


I'd say that on average, 1 out of 10 youth team players are offered a full time professional contract within their own club.

Middlesbrough has a great youth academy so Im in favour of the Nix one..it will churn out product from what we have to start with.


The big difference also is that the academy at most of these clubs starts at about 14 years of age
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over 12 years ago

Less than 14 for the big clubs, eg Jack Wilshere has played for Arsenal since he was 9. 

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over 12 years ago
paulm wrote:

Less than 14 for the big clubs, eg Jack Wilshere has played for Arsenal since he was 9. 


Here's a clip of Barcelona's kids top 5 goals for this week, quality stuff, and they all look really young:
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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

This is where Whole of Football will hopefully make a difference long term. The Fed Talent Centres identify players at age 11. In Chch Mainland had a School of Football running for 2 years prior to FTC. So some of their older FTC players (age 15) have been training 45 weeks a year since age 11. Feed some of them plus your WYNRS, Oles and APFA kids into Nix FSE and there should be some talent for Ernie  to develop in the next couple of years. Good things take time.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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over 12 years ago
brumbys wrote:
paulm wrote:

Less than 14 for the big clubs, eg Jack Wilshere has played for Arsenal since he was 9. 


Here's a clip of Barcelona's kids top 5 goals for this week, quality stuff, and they all look really young:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYZmabgUXtY


oh. my. goodness.
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over 12 years ago

This is where Whole of Football will hopefully make a difference long term. The Fed Talent Centres identify players at age 11. In Chch Mainland had a School of Football running for 2 years prior to FTC. So some of their older FTC players (age 15) have been training 45 weeks a year since age 11. Feed some of them plus your WYNRS, Oles and APFA kids into Nix FSE and there should be some talent for Ernie  to develop in the next couple of years. Good things take time.


Agree. NZ Football and the Clubs has to change is changing to it to a full year sport. The kids are only playing in Winter, for what, 5 Month? Other youth teams around the world have the double amount of game time, for sure they play better. You have to lift the standard country wide and let them the play week in week out.
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over 12 years ago
paulm wrote:
brumbys wrote:
paulm wrote:

Less than 14 for the big clubs, eg Jack Wilshere has played for Arsenal since he was 9. 


Here's a clip of Barcelona's kids top 5 goals for this week, quality stuff, and they all look really young:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYZmabgUXtY


oh. my. goodness.


Wow. Just wow.





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over 12 years ago
Wibblebutt wrote:
paulm wrote:
brumbys wrote:
paulm wrote:

Less than 14 for the big clubs, eg Jack Wilshere has played for Arsenal since he was 9. 


Here's a clip of Barcelona's kids top 5 goals for this week, quality stuff, and they all look really young:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYZmabgUXtY


oh. my. goodness.


Wow. Just wow.




Whole of Football has a way to go!
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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

back to transfers...

is adams the extra centre back that merrick was on about earlier?  i got the impression that he was chasing a first team centre back and i'm not sure if adams would fit this criteria.

if this is the case, we can expect to have a squad with 5 centre backs.  therefore, i think there's a good chance that we will play with a back 3, as merrick often did in the past.

one of the features of merrick's back 3 was the play of kevin muscat, who played as a libero, often moving in to midfield.    i've always been impressed with durante's footballing skills and reckon he could be our muscat (without the nut bar tendencies of course) if merrick decides to roll out a back 3

adding further weight is the fact that merrick confirmed that manny muscat will be played in midfield this season. manny is a full back, but not a wing back, thus wouldn't fit properly into this formation

just speculating

360footballnews.com

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over 12 years ago

Guys for your academy look at the Mariners model [not saying to use just have a look]... well model phase three ....

The current model works very well and it took some time to determine how and what to do given costs and budgets...

The Mariners have two academies from U 9 to U 18, both male and female.... it works by partnership agreements with two football associations, one the Central Coast Association and the other the NSW Association [essentially western country NSW] ...

The Mariners coach the rep coaches in these associations and design manuals for the coaches to follow.... meaning we have I think three full time coaches training and designing models for the rep teams in these two associations... it's not perfect but very cost effective and some talented players want to play in these rep teams from other areas...

Just sharing ... great to see football being developed and good luck with your academies .... 



Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 12 years ago
reg22 wrote:

back to transfers...

is adams the extra centre back that merrick was on about earlier?  i got the impression that he was chasing a first team centre back and i'm not sure if adams would fit this criteria.

if this is the case, we can expect to have a squad with 5 centre backs.  therefore, i think there's a good chance that we will play with a back 3, as merrick often did in the past.

one of the features of merrick's back 3 was the play of kevin muscat, who played as a libero, often moving in to midfield.    i've always been impressed with durante's footballing skills and reckon he could be our muscat (without the nut bar tendencies of course) if merrick decides to roll out a back 3

adding further weight is the fact that merrick confirmed that manny muscat will be played in midfield this season. manny is a full back, but not a wing back, thus wouldn't fit properly into this formation

just speculating

Not sure he will be getting another starting CB - he's quoted as saying he would have been happy to just have 3 center backs but wants two backups when Dura & Siggy get called up to AW's.
Judging on that staement itll be a back 4


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over 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

How can you put "personal feelings aside" when no one here knows the day to day inner workings of an accadamy set up? 

After less than a year, to still have five or six still in the mix (more than 50%) would be seen as a success for anyone who does not try and find the negative in just about everything



I think that went over your head - personal feelings bit. N'mind!
And I'm allowed to be negative but I'm plenty positive too but you just like to jump on things I say like others.
If we're having to sign players in positions we had Academy guys in I'd say that's a failure. Luke Adams is probably just the first.
Is there anything wrong with that? NO it's Merrick's baby now. I'm just saying like I said I'd be pissed if I was Doyle and Solomons.


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over 12 years ago
playwithFire wrote:
reg22 wrote:

back to transfers...

is adams the extra centre back that merrick was on about earlier?  i got the impression that he was chasing a first team centre back and i'm not sure if adams would fit this criteria.

if this is the case, we can expect to have a squad with 5 centre backs.  therefore, i think there's a good chance that we will play with a back 3, as merrick often did in the past.

one of the features of merrick's back 3 was the play of kevin muscat, who played as a libero, often moving in to midfield.    i've always been impressed with durante's footballing skills and reckon he could be our muscat (without the nut bar tendencies of course) if merrick decides to roll out a back 3

adding further weight is the fact that merrick confirmed that manny muscat will be played in midfield this season. manny is a full back, but not a wing back, thus wouldn't fit properly into this formation

just speculating

Not sure he will be getting another starting CB - he's quoted as saying he would have been happy to just have 3 center backs but wants two backups when Dura & Siggy get called up to AW's.

Judging on that staement itll be a back 4


This!
People assumed he was going to sign a foreigner and break up Siggy/Dura - he's not!


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over 12 years ago

if we were able to get more kids into futsal in the off season then that'd be good, i've heard a few advertisements for it which is positive. If clubs could figure out a way to have both football and futsal on their roster then it'd be great. Works for brasil, works for spain no reason why it can't work for us.

yung thug

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over 12 years ago
Joey Johns wrote:

if we were able to get more kids into futsal in the off season then that'd be good, i've heard a few advertisements for it which is positive. If clubs could figure out a way to have both football and futsal on their roster then it'd be great. Works for brasil, works for spain no reason why it can't work for us.


I'm personally a big fan of this being a part of the whole of football approach. However I think a major battle that Capital Football is going to have is cost. The price of playing futsal is INSANE currently, and with ASB Centre stacked for bookings, I don't seem them dropping their prices any time soon.
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over 12 years ago
brumbys wrote:
Joey Johns wrote:

if we were able to get more kids into futsal in the off season then that'd be good, i've heard a few advertisements for it which is positive. If clubs could figure out a way to have both football and futsal on their roster then it'd be great. Works for brasil, works for spain no reason why it can't work for us.


I'm personally a big fan of this being a part of the whole of football approach. However I think a major battle that Capital Football is going to have is cost. The price of playing futsal is INSANE currently, and with ASB Centre stacked for bookings, I don't seem them dropping their prices any time soon.

Does futsal really have to be played indoors? Couldn't regular football grounds be sectioned up into smaller ones like they do for kids games? Thus bringing the cost down and allowing youngsters to play the fast paced, smaller version where first touches and close control of the ball are so key? I do think futsal is a great way to develop certain footballing skills and would be worth taking advantage of in some way as JJ was saying.

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

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over 12 years ago
brumbys wrote:
Joey Johns wrote:

if we were able to get more kids into futsal in the off season then that'd be good, i've heard a few advertisements for it which is positive. If clubs could figure out a way to have both football and futsal on their roster then it'd be great. Works for brasil, works for spain no reason why it can't work for us.


I'm personally a big fan of this being a part of the whole of football approach. However I think a major battle that Capital Football is going to have is cost. The price of playing futsal is INSANE currently, and with ASB Centre stacked for bookings, I don't seem them dropping their prices any time soon.

Plenty of high school gyms out there...

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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over 12 years ago

I used to play futsal in some gym at the chinese (I think) embassy in wellington, across the road from the botanical gardens - was quite a big comp by the looks too, lots of teams

Surely there's more gyms around that can be utilised for a decent price like that, as conantroutman (!?) says

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over 12 years ago
paulm wrote:

I used to play futsal in some gym at the chinese (I think) embassy in wellington, across the road from the botanical gardens - was quite a big comp by the looks too, lots of teams

Surely there's more gyms around that can be utilised for a decent price like that, as conantroutman (!?) says



I think the battle is the international standard, which requires two basketball courts worth of space.
Although it can be played outside, the appeal of inside is that you're never rained off!

Paulm those leagues moved to ASB, I miss that place so much!
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over 12 years ago

Rumour that Antonis deal with Parma has fallen through and may return to league - but Sydney may not have room for him.


Doubt we'd be in with a shout but worth a look - rapidly improved last year in my opinion


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over 12 years ago

Yep.

A fan is a fan.

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over 12 years ago
playwithFire wrote:

Rumour that Antonis deal with Parma has fallen through and may return to league - but Sydney may not have room for him.


Doubt we'd be in with a shout but worth a look - rapidly improved last year in my opinion



FFA will make room.
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over 12 years ago
Sackofspuds wrote:
playwithFire wrote:

Rumour that Antonis deal with Parma has fallen through and may return to league - but Sydney may not have room for him.


Doubt we'd be in with a shout but worth a look - rapidly improved last year in my opinion



FFA will make room.
From what it sounds, someone in Parma did the deal with out the Club President's approval. I guess the deal could still be salvaged but they also have the room left by Sack Whacker leaving to go back to China.
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over 12 years ago

Good player if you can get em... 

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 12 years ago
brumbys wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVeSSO9SENo

Looks handy, would be good, although a search for him strongly indicates the Parma deal being done and dusted.

News from the past day has put this deal on shaky grounds. Supposedly deal wasn't sanctioned by Parma president and may not go through - as per RR post above. IMO Antonis hasn't lived up to his hype but is young and should improve.
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over 12 years ago

So no news on this Bayern Munich defender

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over 12 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:

So no news on this Bayern Munich defender


Lads on the latest pod hinted that he hasn't played for over a year and is in not great shape. Wide defensive ranks look a little thin. Locky gone, missed out on Roux, Hogg trialing  in the UK, Bayern guy not good enough, Oz youngster injured, no sign of Tuiloma. Currently we have Rowe who is on trial and thats about it.......in Ernie we trust!!!!
Speaking of Tuiloma....anyone know what the latest is. Ernie said that they have contacted him for a trial but he's not here. JV heard he has signed for OM. So whats up???? Can't believe such a good prospect is going to swan around at Birkenhead United for much longer(no disrespect for Birkenhead)
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over 12 years ago

Trandmueller wasn't at training when I drove past yesterday and article on the front page says he's gone.


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over 12 years ago
austin10 wrote:
 Speaking of Tuiloma....anyone know what the latest is. Ernie said that they have contacted him for a trial but he's not here. JV heard he has signed for OM. So whats up???? Can't believe such a good prospect is going to swan around at Birkenhead United for much longer(no disrespect for Birkenhead)
Played for Birko last weekend I believe. Wouldn't really believe what his agent does/says given he was meant to be going to the Galaxy.
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over 12 years ago

Tuiloma would be overseas if he had interest anywhere. Perfect player for Merrick. Journos need to get off ass in write that story


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over 12 years ago

Merrick = Herbert for me so far with Fenton thing. No idea why we don't just try and sign an actual right back. Stop treating like the red headed stepchild. It's just as important as Central Midfield. GRRR


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over 12 years ago

He said he wants his RB/LB to be able to attack. 2 birds with one stone. I do agree however, from what I saw at Porirua park, Fenton is not up to it.



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over 12 years ago
TV wrote:

Merrick = Herbert for me so far with Fenton thing. No idea why we don't just try and sign an actual right back. Stop treating like the red headed stepchild. It's just as important as Central Midfield. GRRR

Agreed. I wouldn't even mind seeing an import spot used on it if we got a quality player who could do the job there for a few years.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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over 12 years ago
nufc_nz wrote:

He said he wants his RB/LB to be able to attack. 2 birds with one stone. I do agree however, from what I saw at Porirua park, Fenton is not up to it.


You were there and the mods were there as well I believe? What did you do, introduce yourself as Nuf-NZ and receive a great reception and be shouted a beer? Or hide in the corner in your rain jacket?

Auckland will rise once more

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over 12 years ago

"If I have to sell it I don't want him, he can move on," Merrick laughed.


So if Louis wasn't keen Merrick would cut him? Jesus. 


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over 12 years ago

not sure Fenton is the answer to RB problem, but if  he can add that to his skill set then if we are desparate then ok, I guess. I'd much rather we had a proper right back and let Fenton play forward.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 12 years ago

Merrick said early on that he wants pacey wide defenders who will be a major part of his attacking strategy. He also hinted that it was very difficult to recruit the right kind of players to the Nix. Maybe he has tried to find a pacey RB but come up empty handed....he has then looked at his current squad and seen Fenton as a player with the right sort of physical attributes that he thinks might do the job. Its a big leap however to take a young lad who is just finding his feet at this level and converting them from an attacker to a defender.

Bertos's conversion to RB sort of made sense at the time because he was a senior pro. He was an established player who knew the ropes at A-League level. As a fan you just kind of wonder why they just don't go out and buy a RB. Other A-League clubs seem to be able to fill this position OK. Or maybe this is the reality for Ernie....that recruiting players to a NZ pro club that came last in the A-League  and does not have a lot of $$$ really is a tough ask. It will be quite interesting to see how well he does with the two import slots.

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over 12 years ago
nufc_nz wrote:

He said he wants his RB/LB to be able to attack. 2 birds with one stone. I do agree however, from what I saw at Porirua park, Fenton is not up to it.


You were there and the mods were there as well I believe? What did you do, introduce yourself as Nuf-NZ and receive a great reception and be shouted a beer? Or hide in the corner in your rain jacket?


And how would I know who the mods are ? Do you know their faces ?

ps at least get my name right.


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