Wellington Phoenix Men

R22 vs Adelaide United | Sat 5th Mar | 7:15pm | RoF

301 replies · 24,753 views
about 10 years ago

Global Game wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

mjp2 wrote:

I don't think anyone is criticising people on here who don't go to games because of family or work or geography or anything like that. I think it's when people don't go but have no excuse other than the poor form or the club's attitude or something like that that people are getting wound up.

I don't want to tell people what they should do with their money and time - if people don't want to go to games then that's fine. Each to their own. But I do get pissed off if people who call themselves fans and were fighting to save the club and bitching about the FFA then just decide that because we are on a bad run of form they are going to stay home. Didn't the whole metrics/savethenix thing make us realise that the club is dependent not only on the goodwill of the FFA but on the support of the people of Wellington?

Yes we are in shark form. Yes this has been a frustrating season. Yes it is annoying to watch the team roll over meekly and get smashed by Adelaide. But this is the exact time when the club needs the fans. We need to keep getting good crowds. We need to have a great atmosphere so that if a random comes along they want to come back. 

When results are going against us the casuals won't turn up to bolster the crowds. The publicity that the Nix in particular and football in NZ in general has had recently has been horrible, and we are fighting the start of the Super rugby season for public attention too. The only way we will maintain decent crowds at this point is if all the fans who are emotionally invested in this club get their arses through the gates at home games.

Plus bigger crowds drive the team on and make better results more likely!

It's simple for me.  We are missing two starting strikers, to injury and to abject Sarpong-failure.  We are missing our toughest defender and on field motivator.  We had no club up to a couple of weeks ago and so could not address the problems in the January window.

Despite that we beat a team 5-1 that was otherwise about to go top of the League, in what was a performance when everything went right, but in which we also played pretty damn well. We then beat another club that was about to go top of the League, 2-1, in a performance that was a bit fortunate but throughout which the players worked their guts out, at home, in Dura's 200th game, to hold a lead that it looked like we'd loose every minute from around the 20 minute mark.. 

I'm not seeing guys not playing as hard as they can.  I am seeing a team that has pretty big limitations right now that they simply cannot overcome every week, BUT that has nevertheless done us proud in a couple of yuuuuuuuuuge wins that no-one expected.  So we then get towelled by the team that will likely win the League on current form, which had the sort of goal to shot ratio that we got against WSW and a few heads went down on the field.  And we are frustrated here.  I guess hardly surprising given the extent to which we'd over-performed the last few weeks. 

Personally I enjoyed last nights game.  Adelaide played some fantastic, clinical, fast, counter attacking football and they were very, very organised and disciplined in defence.  They were worth watching.  We had no-one with the skills, pace or luck to break down the sort of defence that our weakened team has had trouble breaking down all year.  But we went closer several times than we have in other games.  Surprised we lost?  Not really.  Dissapointed?  Sure.  Do we have a football team?  Yes we do.  With Ernie stating he is looking for two strikers and two defenders for next year, and with a ten year license do I think we'll be a much better team next year.  Sure, I do.  Sure, I hope we do.

I turned up last night.  We didn't win.  Shark happens.   

Magnificent post.

Agree with most of this but we do not have a 10 year licence. We have a 4 year licence then a hurdle, then 3 plus another hurdle, then 3 more.

Sorry i prefer to listen to Rob he was adamant and said he hated it being refereed to  4+3+3.He said was TEN YEARS end of.So thanks for the opinion i have faith in Rob.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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about 10 years ago

As someone pointed out the other day when it comes to defence it seems to be a Phoenix thing as the wee nix leak goals as well. 


GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

ballane wrote:

Global Game wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

mjp2 wrote:

I don't think anyone is criticising people on here who don't go to games because of family or work or geography or anything like that. I think it's when people don't go but have no excuse other than the poor form or the club's attitude or something like that that people are getting wound up.

I don't want to tell people what they should do with their money and time - if people don't want to go to games then that's fine. Each to their own. But I do get pissed off if people who call themselves fans and were fighting to save the club and bitching about the FFA then just decide that because we are on a bad run of form they are going to stay home. Didn't the whole metrics/savethenix thing make us realise that the club is dependent not only on the goodwill of the FFA but on the support of the people of Wellington?

Yes we are in shark form. Yes this has been a frustrating season. Yes it is annoying to watch the team roll over meekly and get smashed by Adelaide. But this is the exact time when the club needs the fans. We need to keep getting good crowds. We need to have a great atmosphere so that if a random comes along they want to come back. 

When results are going against us the casuals won't turn up to bolster the crowds. The publicity that the Nix in particular and football in NZ in general has had recently has been horrible, and we are fighting the start of the Super rugby season for public attention too. The only way we will maintain decent crowds at this point is if all the fans who are emotionally invested in this club get their arses through the gates at home games.

Plus bigger crowds drive the team on and make better results more likely!

It's simple for me.  We are missing two starting strikers, to injury and to abject Sarpong-failure.  We are missing our toughest defender and on field motivator.  We had no club up to a couple of weeks ago and so could not address the problems in the January window.

Despite that we beat a team 5-1 that was otherwise about to go top of the League, in what was a performance when everything went right, but in which we also played pretty damn well. We then beat another club that was about to go top of the League, 2-1, in a performance that was a bit fortunate but throughout which the players worked their guts out, at home, in Dura's 200th game, to hold a lead that it looked like we'd loose every minute from around the 20 minute mark.. 

I'm not seeing guys not playing as hard as they can.  I am seeing a team that has pretty big limitations right now that they simply cannot overcome every week, BUT that has nevertheless done us proud in a couple of yuuuuuuuuuge wins that no-one expected.  So we then get towelled by the team that will likely win the League on current form, which had the sort of goal to shot ratio that we got against WSW and a few heads went down on the field.  And we are frustrated here.  I guess hardly surprising given the extent to which we'd over-performed the last few weeks. 

Personally I enjoyed last nights game.  Adelaide played some fantastic, clinical, fast, counter attacking football and they were very, very organised and disciplined in defence.  They were worth watching.  We had no-one with the skills, pace or luck to break down the sort of defence that our weakened team has had trouble breaking down all year.  But we went closer several times than we have in other games.  Surprised we lost?  Not really.  Dissapointed?  Sure.  Do we have a football team?  Yes we do.  With Ernie stating he is looking for two strikers and two defenders for next year, and with a ten year license do I think we'll be a much better team next year.  Sure, I do.  Sure, I hope we do.

I turned up last night.  We didn't win.  Shark happens.   

Magnificent post.

Agree with most of this but we do not have a 10 year licence. We have a 4 year licence then a hurdle, then 3 plus another hurdle, then 3 more.

Sorry i prefer to listen to Rob he was adamant and said he hated it being refereed to  4+3+3.He said was TEN YEARS end of.So thanks for the opinion i have faith in Rob.

]

I have faith in Rob too, but the facts are 433, not 10.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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about 10 years ago

Global Game wrote:

ballane wrote:

Global Game wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

mjp2 wrote:

I don't think anyone is criticising people on here who don't go to games because of family or work or geography or anything like that. I think it's when people don't go but have no excuse other than the poor form or the club's attitude or something like that that people are getting wound up.

I don't want to tell people what they should do with their money and time - if people don't want to go to games then that's fine. Each to their own. But I do get pissed off if people who call themselves fans and were fighting to save the club and bitching about the FFA then just decide that because we are on a bad run of form they are going to stay home. Didn't the whole metrics/savethenix thing make us realise that the club is dependent not only on the goodwill of the FFA but on the support of the people of Wellington?

Yes we are in shark form. Yes this has been a frustrating season. Yes it is annoying to watch the team roll over meekly and get smashed by Adelaide. But this is the exact time when the club needs the fans. We need to keep getting good crowds. We need to have a great atmosphere so that if a random comes along they want to come back. 

When results are going against us the casuals won't turn up to bolster the crowds. The publicity that the Nix in particular and football in NZ in general has had recently has been horrible, and we are fighting the start of the Super rugby season for public attention too. The only way we will maintain decent crowds at this point is if all the fans who are emotionally invested in this club get their arses through the gates at home games.

Plus bigger crowds drive the team on and make better results more likely!

It's simple for me.  We are missing two starting strikers, to injury and to abject Sarpong-failure.  We are missing our toughest defender and on field motivator.  We had no club up to a couple of weeks ago and so could not address the problems in the January window.

Despite that we beat a team 5-1 that was otherwise about to go top of the League, in what was a performance when everything went right, but in which we also played pretty damn well. We then beat another club that was about to go top of the League, 2-1, in a performance that was a bit fortunate but throughout which the players worked their guts out, at home, in Dura's 200th game, to hold a lead that it looked like we'd loose every minute from around the 20 minute mark.. 

I'm not seeing guys not playing as hard as they can.  I am seeing a team that has pretty big limitations right now that they simply cannot overcome every week, BUT that has nevertheless done us proud in a couple of yuuuuuuuuuge wins that no-one expected.  So we then get towelled by the team that will likely win the League on current form, which had the sort of goal to shot ratio that we got against WSW and a few heads went down on the field.  And we are frustrated here.  I guess hardly surprising given the extent to which we'd over-performed the last few weeks. 

Personally I enjoyed last nights game.  Adelaide played some fantastic, clinical, fast, counter attacking football and they were very, very organised and disciplined in defence.  They were worth watching.  We had no-one with the skills, pace or luck to break down the sort of defence that our weakened team has had trouble breaking down all year.  But we went closer several times than we have in other games.  Surprised we lost?  Not really.  Dissapointed?  Sure.  Do we have a football team?  Yes we do.  With Ernie stating he is looking for two strikers and two defenders for next year, and with a ten year license do I think we'll be a much better team next year.  Sure, I do.  Sure, I hope we do.

I turned up last night.  We didn't win.  Shark happens.   

Magnificent post.

Agree with most of this but we do not have a 10 year licence. We have a 4 year licence then a hurdle, then 3 plus another hurdle, then 3 more.

Sorry i prefer to listen to Rob he was adamant and said he hated it being refereed to  4+3+3.He said was TEN YEARS end of.So thanks for the opinion i have faith in Rob.

]

I have faith in Rob too, but the facts are 433, not 10.

I don't have anything to add to this. I just wanted to make a huge block of quoted text

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 10 years ago

Ernie prefers to try to score more goals than the other team.

And Greenacre was a striker.

Although I wouldn't want him back, at least Ricki knew something about defending.

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about 10 years ago

Bevan wrote:

Ernie prefers to try to score more goals than the other team.

And Greenacre was a striker.

Although I wouldn't want him back, at least Ricki knew something about defending.

did we or did we not have one of the best defensive records in the league last year? Certainly right up till the end of the season when the slump hit iirc.

Guess that doesn't fit the narrative though

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about 10 years ago

sthn.jeff wrote:

Bevan wrote:

Ernie prefers to try to score more goals than the other team.

And Greenacre was a striker.

Although I wouldn't want him back, at least Ricki knew something about defending.

did we or did we not have one of the best defensive records in the league last year? Certainly right up till the end of the season when the slump hit iirc.

Guess that doesn't fit the narrative though

It's certainly an outlier in the pattern. 

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about 10 years ago

Bevan wrote:

Ernie prefers to try to score more goals than the other team.

And Greenacre was a striker.

Although I wouldn't want him back, at least Ricki knew something about defending.

With respect, I'd suggest most football players and coaches share that preference 

Normo's coming home

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about 10 years ago

Jr and I took a special ( to us) guest along on Sat. He's a Saffa , one of the top 2 or 3 distance ocean surf ski paddlers on the planet ( World Champion standard). So he knows a thing or 2 about elite level sport. Whilst not being a football follower especially , his comments were along the lines of one team was very clinical with limited opportunities, the other team less so. No prizes for guessing which. He was impressed that for large parts of the game the Red Army out-vocalled the Zone. Still , he enjoyed himself , loved the atmosphere and really enjoyed the Tuatara pilsner.

Jr and I were disappointed , naturally. But we've only ever missed one home game ( Jr in hospital at the time) , and we'll continue to go as long as we have a team to support. We've seen some great games and some shark games . So long as Jr's health holds up, next year we'll no doubt see exactly the same ( good performances , crap ones). But that's sport.

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

el grapadura wrote:

sthn.jeff wrote:

Bevan wrote:

Ernie prefers to try to score more goals than the other team.

And Greenacre was a striker.

Although I wouldn't want him back, at least Ricki knew something about defending.

did we or did we not have one of the best defensive records in the league last year? Certainly right up till the end of the season when the slump hit iirc.

Guess that doesn't fit the narrative though

It's certainly an outlier in the pattern. 

Except if you added the one more season (11/12) to your analysis with 32 goals against, it wouldn't be an outlier. For the previous four seasons it would be two good defensive records and two poor. Even if you went back six seasons, it would still be 50/50 good records versus poor records.

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about 10 years ago

djtim3000 wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

sthn.jeff wrote:

Bevan wrote:

Ernie prefers to try to score more goals than the other team.

And Greenacre was a striker.

Although I wouldn't want him back, at least Ricki knew something about defending.

did we or did we not have one of the best defensive records in the league last year? Certainly right up till the end of the season when the slump hit iirc.

Guess that doesn't fit the narrative though

It's certainly an outlier in the pattern. 

Except if you added the one more season (11/12) to your analysis with 32 goals against, it wouldn't be an outlier. For the previous four seasons it would be two good defensive records and two poor. Even if you went back six seasons, it would still be 50/50 good records versus poor records.

What I was looking at was years under Merrick, plus the shambles of the last season under Ricki - so not a random number of four just to argue an imaginary point. Generally speaking, the side was more conservative/defensive under Ricki, and the leaking of goals wasn't really a big problem in the grand scheme of things (we made the playoffs in the three seasons immediately before Ricki's last season).

It became a problem in that season - and based on evidence so far, hasn't really been resolved.

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about 10 years ago

But the consensus was that we weren't an entertaining team, and the crowds weren't exactly turning up except for those finals games.  So the transition to focussing on attack is a marketing one.

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about 10 years ago

Ryan wrote:

But the consensus was that we weren't an entertaining team, and the crowds weren't exactly turning up except for those finals games.  So the transition to focussing on attack is a marketing one.

Don't agree with that.  I think that's Merrick's natural inclination.  Simple fact is the defence is nowhere near good enough and has been allowed to deteriorate.  It needs to be fixed next season if we are going to get anywhere.  We're going to have 3 bottom 2 finishes in the past 4 years, a lot of people here seem to want to make excuses for that.  I'd rather we fixed it personally

Normo's coming home

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about 10 years ago

Ricki was instructed to rebuild the team after the season started to be more entertaining - remember Gareth Morgan and Total Football?

That's one of the reasons why things fell apart in that final season, Ricki was trying to change the playing style mid season.

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about 10 years ago

What do you reckon will get punters turning up more regularly? Winning consistently no matter how ugly, or losing consistently, but in an entertaining fashion?

Any marketer worth his or her salt will tell you its easier to market a winning team, no matter what their style of play.

Team sport cannot be marketed like a brand by the way. It's bullshark to say the Nix are in the 'entertainment' business. This is a football club. Football clubs should do everything within their capabilities to try to win; then the marketing will take care of itself. 

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

I think the goal is to win consistantly and be entertaining. It's also not a club (despite the FC in the name, it's a franchise).

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

Ryan wrote:

It's also not a club (despite the FC in the name, it's a franchise).

Why not both? The Phoenix fit both definitions. 


Allegedly

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about 10 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Ryan wrote:

It's also not a club (despite the FC in the name, it's a franchise).

Why not both? The Phoenix fit both definitions. 

To its most important stakeholders - its fans - it's a football club.  It should remember that in its marketing.

Also, a franchise implies an organised, consistent process for operations and marketing - from the franchise owner, FFA. Er...

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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about 10 years ago · edited about 10 years ago · History

Global Game wrote:

Tegal wrote:

Ryan wrote:

It's also not a club (despite the FC in the name, it's a franchise).

Why not both? The Phoenix fit both definitions. 

To its most important stakeholders - its fans - it's a football club.  It should remember that in its marketing.

Also, a franchise implies an organised, consistent process for operations and marketing - from the franchise owner, FFA. Er...

Franchise is a model of ownership used commonly in Australian sports as well as in the USA and other markets. 

In my daily life as a football tragic, I do not care for the difference - to me it is The Club, even if it is a "franchise".

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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