Wellington Phoenix Men

R4 vs Victory Monday 9:30pm SS3

764 replies · 32,187 views
over 12 years ago
Ryan54 wrote:

The squad is basically last year's squad - minus some squad players + untested rookies + Hernandez. Why does/did that equation convince anyone we would be anywhere near the playoffs. This isn't England. There is no promotion or relegation. We aren't going to win the league this season so why does it matter if we come 6th or 8th? Ideally we wouldn't come last and I hope the players want to do well for personal pride. The point is this is a transitional season. You don't sign a heap load of 17 year olds and then expect them to pay off instantly. We are playing far better football as our midfield actually passes the ball to the each other. It will take time though.

If you don't have patience you are no going to like Merrick. The Phoenix simply don't have the money to go from last to first in one season.


Yeah this is true.
The way Merrick has recruited suggests to me that he intends to really start next year. He has cleared some excess and gotten rid of Lochy who was presumably being paid well and has recruited promising youth on the cheap. I'm guessing the plan is to clear more of the expensive dead wood next season (Lia probably Leo and Ifill (unless he gets naturalised) and Stein) and will replace them with the key players he wants (big recruitment drive).
He has this nice foundation of youth to be blooded over the season, Fenton and Caira will probably begin to become quality fullbacks as time goes on, the investment in them probably to yield fruit in towards the end of this season and really pay off next season.
Unfortunately we get no instant results because Welnix's approach is to build a team rather than buy one.

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

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over 12 years ago

I think most of us are tired of heraing about how this year is a transition year - we've been transitiongin for too long now. Unless of course this is the first real transition year and the welnix were trotting it out as an excuse beforehand.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 12 years ago
theprof wrote:

I think most of us are tired of heraing about how this year is a transition year - we've been transitiongin for too long now. Unless of course this is the first real transition year and the welnix were trotting it out as an excuse beforehand.



Our first two seasons were also transition years. Seasons 3-5 were not transition years - they were the team performing at its best. If you look at our squad then and how some members of our squad are now playing it seems a bit crazy that we made the playoffs three years in a row. Last season was not a transition year either. It was just a coach and many players no longer being able to get anything more out of themselves.

If you think about it we have had six seasons and made the playoffs for three of those seasons. This is in a competition where about 60% of teams make the playoffs (some years it has only been 50%). I think if you look at it overall we have done about as well as you would expect from one of the smallest clubs in the competition. Obviously, we want to do better than average (like the Central Coast who do a lot better with not much more resources) and I hope the players and staff are working to make sure this happens. I guess I'm just saying that as fans we haven't had a terrible lot.
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over 12 years ago
asmodeus_82 wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:

The squad is basically last year's squad - minus some squad players + untested rookies + Hernandez. Why does/did that equation convince anyone we would be anywhere near the playoffs. This isn't England. There is no promotion or relegation. We aren't going to win the league this season so why does it matter if we come 6th or 8th? Ideally we wouldn't come last and I hope the players want to do well for personal pride. The point is this is a transitional season. You don't sign a heap load of 17 year olds and then expect them to pay off instantly. We are playing far better football as our midfield actually passes the ball to the each other. It will take time though.

If you don't have patience you are no going to like Merrick. The Phoenix simply don't have the money to go from last to first in one season.


Yeah this is true.

The way Merrick has recruited suggests to me that he intends to really start next year. He has cleared some excess and gotten rid of Lochy who was presumably being paid well and has recruited promising youth on the cheap. I'm guessing the plan is to clear more of the expensive dead wood next season (Lia probably Leo and Ifill (unless he gets naturalised) and Stein) and will replace them with the key players he wants (big recruitment drive).

He has this nice foundation of youth to be blooded over the season, Fenton and Caira will probably begin to become quality fullbacks as time goes on, the investment in them probably to yield fruit in towards the end of this season and really pay off next season.

Unfortunately we get no instant results because Welnix's approach is to build a team rather than buy one.


I think that most fans will agree with that, but are also expecting a good finish this season and to make the finals.  
Intellectually we also probably agree that the new team will start to gain consistency and results well into the season (i.e. at this stage don't expect much), but emotionally it's hard to take things like the 1-2 loss in the last minute to Roar and us gifting the Tards three goals in the first few minutes.
Finger is hovering over the "must win" button for Perth and resting firmly on the next game vs Bling.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 12 years ago

T shirt Carlos was wearing under his kit <3



Right back at you, big man xx

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over 12 years ago
Junior82 wrote:
asmodeus_82 wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:

The squad is basically last year's squad - minus some squad players + untested rookies + Hernandez. Why does/did that equation convince anyone we would be anywhere near the playoffs. This isn't England. There is no promotion or relegation. We aren't going to win the league this season so why does it matter if we come 6th or 8th? Ideally we wouldn't come last and I hope the players want to do well for personal pride. The point is this is a transitional season. You don't sign a heap load of 17 year olds and then expect them to pay off instantly. We are playing far better football as our midfield actually passes the ball to the each other. It will take time though.

If you don't have patience you are no going to like Merrick. The Phoenix simply don't have the money to go from last to first in one season.


Yeah this is true.

The way Merrick has recruited suggests to me that he intends to really start next year. He has cleared some excess and gotten rid of Lochy who was presumably being paid well and has recruited promising youth on the cheap. I'm guessing the plan is to clear more of the expensive dead wood next season (Lia probably Leo and Ifill (unless he gets naturalised) and Stein) and will replace them with the key players he wants (big recruitment drive).

He has this nice foundation of youth to be blooded over the season, Fenton and Caira will probably begin to become quality fullbacks as time goes on, the investment in them probably to yield fruit in towards the end of this season and really pay off next season.

Unfortunately we get no instant results because Welnix's approach is to build a team rather than buy one.


I think that most fans will agree with that, but are also expecting a good finish this season and to make the finals.  

Intellectually we also probably agree that the new team will start to gain consistency and results well into the season (i.e. at this stage don't expect much), but emotionally it's hard to take things like the 1-2 loss in the last minute to Roar and us gifting the Tards three goals in the first few minutes.

Finger is hovering over the "must win" button for Perth and resting firmly on the next game vs Bling.


What I worry about is the damage that a couple of seasons of poor results will do to support for the club both here in Wellington and in the footballing corridors of power in Australia and Asia. How long do we go on losing games and crowds before the FFA and/or Welnix consider not renewing the club's license? Considering when Welnix bought it they made a lot of noise about how they did it for Wellington and then proceeded to take games to other centers I don't think they necessarily can be taken at their word.

I know this sounds really negative but I think if we come in the bottom 2 or 3 this season then next season could well be the one that decides if the club continues to exist or not.

 

 

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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over 12 years ago

It's just such a shame to concede such silly goals.

Especially now that our attack has done their bit by scoring two goals.

Every week it's the same, when the attack works the defence doesn't and when the defence works well we don't score...

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over 12 years ago
Junior82 wrote:
asmodeus_82 wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:

The squad is basically last year's squad - minus some squad players + untested rookies + Hernandez. Why does/did that equation convince anyone we would be anywhere near the playoffs. This isn't England. There is no promotion or relegation. We aren't going to win the league this season so why does it matter if we come 6th or 8th? Ideally we wouldn't come last and I hope the players want to do well for personal pride. The point is this is a transitional season. You don't sign a heap load of 17 year olds and then expect them to pay off instantly. We are playing far better football as our midfield actually passes the ball to the each other. It will take time though.

If you don't have patience you are no going to like Merrick. The Phoenix simply don't have the money to go from last to first in one season.


Yeah this is true.

The way Merrick has recruited suggests to me that he intends to really start next year. He has cleared some excess and gotten rid of Lochy who was presumably being paid well and has recruited promising youth on the cheap. I'm guessing the plan is to clear more of the expensive dead wood next season (Lia probably Leo and Ifill (unless he gets naturalised) and Stein) and will replace them with the key players he wants (big recruitment drive).

He has this nice foundation of youth to be blooded over the season, Fenton and Caira will probably begin to become quality fullbacks as time goes on, the investment in them probably to yield fruit in towards the end of this season and really pay off next season.

Unfortunately we get no instant results because Welnix's approach is to build a team rather than buy one.


I think that most fans will agree with that, but are also expecting a good finish this season and to make the finals.  

Intellectually we also probably agree that the new team will start to gain consistency and results well into the season (i.e. at this stage don't expect much), but emotionally it's hard to take things like the 1-2 loss in the last minute to Roar and us gifting the Tards three goals in the first few minutes.

Finger is hovering over the "must win" button for Perth and resting firmly on the next game vs Bling.




As the wife pointed out this morning that this season we are playing much better football. Is that because we have new players? A few, in fact we had 7 of last seasons players who started the game. Like everyone else I want to win every game but we don't yet have the team that is capable of achieving that. Ernie has made a huge difference and if one knows anything about the game then he will have to be given some time to get the Nix into the top flight. It is not going to happen this season.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 12 years ago

Just remember Ange's first season at both Roar and Victory.



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over 12 years ago

Holy fuck I think I agree with Leggy! I need to lie down.

Fuck this stupid game

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over 12 years ago

Ange joined Roar mid-season.  It was never going to end well, but the following season after rebuilding he created Roarcelona.

Victory did well in it's first season with him.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
Junior82 wrote:

Ange joined Roar mid-season.  It was never going to end well, but the following season after rebuilding he created Roarcelona.

Victory did well in it's first season with him.


He lost his first game. He won his first game in round 4. I'm saying it took him a while to build his teams.



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over 12 years ago

and we beat the Roar pre-season and everyone thought they would be beatable that year. 



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over 12 years ago

A bit disappointed with Merrick, not because he started high defensive line, but because he didn't change it after first couple of times the ball was played behind our back 4, and we were on back foot, almost conceding, but it was still nil all. Still strongly believe he will deliver next season.

It looks like the time is running out for some players. If the Nix want to make progress as team some of the things that would need to be considered are either early retirement or change of club for a few players (Lia, Stein, Bertos, Muscat, Sigmund etc.). Some of them are playing only because we don't have much choice.

Please don't get me wrong, I am aware that they did contribute in the past. Unfortunately this style of football doesn't suit them and, as always, club comes first...


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over 12 years ago
TopLeft07 wrote:

Holy fuck I think I agree with Leggy! I need to lie down.



Perhaps you should take more notice.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 12 years ago

I read most of what you post and that is the closest you have come by a long way. Maybe because that post wasn't pure misery.

Fuck this stupid game

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over 12 years ago
Leggy wrote:
TopLeft07 wrote:

Holy fuck I think I agree with Leggy! I need to lie down.



Perhaps you should take more notice.


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over 12 years ago
TopLeft07 wrote:

I read most of what you post and that is the closest you have come by a long way. Maybe because that post wasn't pure misery.



I certainly understand, however I do get the hump when people keep saying how good we are when in fact we are not. Nothing wrong with being positive, but being  realistic is something else.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 12 years ago

Agree with Alan Ford. IMO some of the 'old guard' are now last their sell by date and just not good enough anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 12 years ago
TV wrote:
[

Didnt they have to relay the turf or something. Hardly gonna do that during rugby season

 

What? The turf is as good as any pitch anywhere from what Ive seen. 

Football needs a good surface, rugby doesn't.

I know its spring and all that but I don't see Man U playing away for a few games while the seed takes

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over 12 years ago

Think Victory should be worried, Ernie clearly out coached Muscat during the game.. Starting issues aside once the game was underway Ernie was able to adapt and improve the Phoenix whilst Muscat looked clueless and could not alter the way they were playing.

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
Fenix wrote:
TV wrote:
[

Dint they have to relay the turf or something. Hardly gonna do that during rugby season

 

What? The turf is as good as any pitch anywhere from what Ive seen. 

Football needs a good surface, rugby doesn't.

I know its spring and all that but I don't see Man U playing away for a few games while the seed takes

 


Fuck this stupid game

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over 12 years ago
All turf surfaces need renovations or they will quickly turn into a paddock. What you see out there doesn't stay nice by itself. Westpac do their renovations in spring because the process is quicker at that time of year which obviously means less weeks out of action. The stadium have events all year round so whenever they do it something has to give, just unfortunate the Phoenix play in spring.  Rugby needs good traction, more so than football. It doesn't need to be as smooth but it's still vital that the pitch performs to the specs of all sports played there. Every tenant pays for that right. As for Old Trafford, they have renovation periods too. They do it in the off season as you would expect which is summer. If they have to repair areas during the season and it's not warm enough they can pre germinate their seed indoors in an incubator. They can do that because bums on seats pays for it. 

Fuck this stupid game

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over 12 years ago

As an aside pretty well all pemier football grounds have under soil heating and ground staff also wheel out massive infra red lights to boost growth in key areas ie penalty box. As such they tend to get growth all year round. Those of us with a few years on the clock remember old trafford and others being an absolute bog bereft of grass by mid January.

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over 12 years ago

Derby County & Man City's ground were routinely quagmire's. Not quite swaps but worse than mud heaps - and they used the ol heavy brown leather balls that were like kicking medicine balls once wet. Let's see the super stars of today try and kick one.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 12 years ago
MrWaikato wrote:

Think Victory should be worried, Ernie clearly out coached Muscat during the game.. Starting issues aside once the game was underway Ernie was able to adapt and improve the Phoenix whilst Muscat looked clueless and could not alter the way they were playing.



Really?

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 12 years ago

Quite right ! QPR went to their plast8c pitch due to mud. Your right about the leather balls... I remember as a centreback cringing as I stood under a goalies clearnce knowing it was going to be like getting punched by Ali!... I even remember playing with a laced ball !! .

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over 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

As an aside pretty well all pemier football grounds have under soil heating and ground staff also wheel out massive infra red lights to boost growth in key areas ie penalty box. As such they tend to get growth all year round. Those of us with a few years on the clock remember old trafford and others being an absolute bog bereft of grass by mid January.

Yep forgot to mention all that but again, the people through gates pay for that. Have seen plenty of footage of those old muddy pitches, these days it's no longer acceptable obviously, a lot of money is spent and the expectation is perfection. 

Fuck this stupid game

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over 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

Quite right ! QPR went to their plast8c pitch due to mud. Your right about the leather balls... I remember as a centreback cringing as I stood under a goalies clearnce knowing it was going to be like getting punched by Ali!... I even remember playing with a laced ball !! .



Didn't think there was anyone on here as old as me. Guess I was wrong.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 12 years ago

Lop... hope it made your day Leggy

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over 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

Lop... hope it made your day Leggy



It did.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

Quite right ! QPR went to their plast8c pitch due to mud. Your right about the leather balls... I remember as a centreback cringing as I stood under a goalies clearnce knowing it was going to be like getting punched by Ali!... I even remember playing with a laced ball !! .


Exactly, QPR's pitch was a shocker. That Omniturf pitch was like playing on concrete. No give in it at all. Laced soaked leather footballs. I remember those when playing as a kid on strand park in a cold raining southerly. It was like kicking a concrete wall without shoes on. Heading almost guaranteed you a concussion of some degree.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 12 years ago

I guess you old boys use to walk 20km to school in the snow in bare feet as well? 

Fuck this stupid game

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over 12 years ago
TopLeft07 wrote:

I guess you old boys use to walk 20km to school in the snow in bare feet as well? 


50 actually. And I had to fight off packs of wolves both going to and back from school.
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over 12 years ago

Jeez you had it tough! The youth of today don't know how bloody lucky they are

Fuck this stupid game

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over 12 years ago
TopLeft07 wrote:

I guess you old boys use to walk 20km to school in the snow in bare feet as well? 


Was not too much snow in Auckland.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 12 years ago

Wolf packs....pffft.... luxury....had to get up arf an hour before I went to bed etc etc etc

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over 12 years ago
TopLeft07 wrote:

I guess you old boys use to walk 20km to school in the snow in bare feet as well? 


Not quite but the football boots we had were a choice of either Black or Black.and were quite thick leather, not these light weight ones of today. jersies were made out of heavey cottonand when they got soaked, you were carrying around an extra 5 kilo. Although in my later teens, polyester did come into fashion. I've still got both jerseys too. Upper Hutt College. dark blue tops with gold/yellow sleeves!!
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 12 years ago
TopLeft07 wrote:

I guess you old boys use to walk 20km to school in the snow in bare feet as well? 


Well I would 500 miles and I would walk 500 more.
I'm the Phoenix fan who walked a thousand miles to watch Paul Ifill score...

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
Junior82 wrote:
TopLeft07 wrote:

I guess you old boys use to walk 20km to school in the snow in bare feet as well? 


Well I would 500 miles and I would walk 500 more.

I'm the Phoenix fan who walked a thousand miles to watch Paul Ifill score...



New song for this weekend! brilliant. The fever zone could split in two for the "di di didi" bit that comes after it.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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