Coliseum Sports - EPL Overlords

Tegal - do you watch any other programmes on Sky?  If not, isn't it a bit of a waste of money paying $1200 per year for just the A league.  If you do, you know that you will also have to pay to watch these other shows via iTunes or the like (or wait a few years for them to come to Channel 2)

Don't ignore the cross-subsidy you get from other Sky subscribers.  For some sports it's not going to be economic to acquire the rights, set up the infrastructure to deliver over the internet and unbundle them from Sky.

Umm everyone in the household kind of needs their phone and laptop for a lot more than just watching PLP, and we didn't buy a TV just to watch EPL on it. Not a single device was bought purely for the EPL.

My point is that there are a lot of devices that people already own that can play PLP on it. I'd go out on a limb and say there are more computers/smartphones/tablets in NZ then there are Sky decoders. Therefore PLP is a lot more accessible than Sky.

Why would the A-League as a gowing/developing competition want to limit their access to die-hards who want to pay for it specifically? In a consumer market where they have a massive scrap on, why would they limit their reach? Sure, it doesn't really rate on Sky but when you are trying to sell your reach to sponsors etc, you can claim the Sky subscription group as a potential market. If you sold your rights to a PLP then you would seriously limit that reach and therefore potential market. Fine for the Premier League who probably aren't all that bothered about growing in new markets but it would be absolutely ridiculous if the A-League did it.

Yeah that's a fair call. Bit of a catch 22, it's better for the A league and smaller leagues for sky to have it, but sky aren't that bothered about it and waste the rights delaying games etc. Whereas a PLP style service would cover those sports a lot better, but perhaps isn't as attractive. 

The A league does seem to be in that annoying in between. Local competitions such as the NBL in nz could really benefit from such a service, since sky ignore them completely. In fact the nz NBL has started streaming its own games online lately. 

It's the way the wind is blowing, I think eventually sky might have to get with the times as competition increases and such online services become cheaper and more attractive route for sports to go down - and as it gets more accessible to consumers. 

It's the way it is blowing in certain circumstances. American Sport, yes because of their schedule and amount of content as well as the massively regionalised and fractured TV network in the US. Sports where they don't get any coverage at all, like the NZ NBL, yes. But if the A-League would only sell the rights to a Sky if they didn't bundle the content, which is my underlying premise, then Sky won't bundle the content.

It's a fascinating debate and will be amazing to watch for the next 5-10 years. I get the feeling that NZ might be a bit of a guinea pig as we have "reasonable" infrastructure as well as a reasonably diverse sporting landscape taking most of our content from overseas providers.

What we actually need is a subscription based dedicated football channel.

Nah just sport. Which is sort of my point. To get sport I have to pay for everything else as well. Not ideal. 

Even then I only really watch A league, warriors in nrl, black caps test matches over summer (and occasionally overseas), and the odd all blacks test on sky. Maybe the odd game of something else, or something I'm forgetting about, but still not $1200 worth. 

It really is a rip off compared to online options. It'd be ideal just to buy all that individually like I do with MLB, EPL and sometimes NBA. I have been shown an online nrl stream (that's only accessible overseas, but there are ways around that), so if cricket decides to create its own online service and PLP win all balls rights (they won't, but it was mentioned in that article JD posted) then I'd be set, and save a lot of money.

I don't agree with that.  If you look at the model for pay television worldwide it is basically driven by sports rights.  There is no way that the pay TV operators are going to give up without a very big fight - these are huge valuable businesses.  Sky TV in the UK is completely dependent on the Premier League.  Yes, some sports will go direct to consumers like the American Sports do, or other minority sports do, but remember that there is a real benefit to selling rights to someone who is in the business of producing television coverage.  That's a huge investment to set up all of that in-house.  If you look at Sky and BT in the UK their coverage is fantastic and goes way beyond just showing the games which is all we get in the UK.  If you sell the rights you also get guaranteed income for your sport, selling direct to the consumer means you take that risk on board - what's the benefit of that?

PLP produce no original content, they are just a distributor of a pre-packaged product which is fairly simple.  Now that's fine because we are used to not having any locally produced shows that cover the premier league.  But if you think about local sport like Rugby the rights holder, Sky, have to employ people to film, produce, commentate, distribute etc.  It's going to take someone a lot more experienced than Coliseum to do all of that.  It would be a very big risk to move that from Sky elsewhere

In that article they also said Coliseum are using NZ as proof of concept for taking over rights in other Asian markets.  It would be interesting to know how much they are losing.  I'd be almost certain they are paying more for the rights than they earn from subscribers

I agree with this point, OFC TV have attempted to produce their own material but the production quality is far lower than anything produced by Sky. However if someone were to come along with a little bit more money than OFC do, the only big thing standing in the way of this happening to the level that Sky do it is the number of subscribers they can get to fund the venture. Team up with other sports that get shafted by Sky (basketball, local cricket other than T20's etc) and this might just be able to happen. 

OFC have shown that it's relatively easy to do, its just hard to do it to a high standard.

fair points JD.

I mean it in the sense that streaming content online is becoming cheaper and more attractive. Even sky are starting to do it. The lower costs lower the barriers to entry for potential competition to come in - like PLP has. It makes it more likely that somebody can come in And create their own content to go with such sports like sky does. 

But yeah you're right, sky does still have a big competitive advantage with OSB etc. 

And yeah Bopman, I enjoy the discussion about all this too, as you can probably tell!

Absolutely agree, as a delivery method online is the future definitely.  It will be extremely interesting to see where Coliseum go next.  I can't see them getting any Rugby and in that article they said cricket have signed up an 8 year deal with Sky.  I suppose league could be a good option for them??  Maybe one off ring sport events like UFC or boxing on PPV could work for them?

N-Bomb may have a better idea, but one that springs to mind is NZ NBL. They've tried to do it this year but it was quite poorly done and I doubt it got much exposure. They'd do well to align themselves with coliseum for increased exposure and website quality. Could be mutually beneficial? 

The nrl could work, and would be a big fish. But again you run into problems with broadcasting nz matches. To make any real dent, they have to invest further in infrastructure. Would they be willing to do that or are they just happy doing what they're doing now? It'll be interesting. 

The FFA did sell the online broadcast rights for the A-League last season internationally to livesport.tv (they have several other sports incl basketball, snooker, boxing, cricket, darts, pool, martial arts etc.) a UK company.

Not confirmed if this will continue this season though.

Their website says the A-League service is available everywhere except Australia:

:http://www.aleague.livesport.tv/about

Anyone know if you could subscribe in NZ last season?

If it is blocked here in NZ, there are ways around it as some Aussies worked out last season: " When viewing A-League Livesport.tv streams from within Australia, a VPN/DNS service is required to bypass Geo-Block Restrictions."

There is info if you click on VPN/DNS but I use the free service "Hola" and it works for most blocked websites:

http://hola.org/

http://hola.org/download?list=1

http://download.cnet.com/Hola-Unblocker-for-Chrome...

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Interesting discussion. 

Sky do need to get their act together regarding their online presence if they want to be as strong as they have been.

SkyGo is absolutely terrible. 

The big american sports who go straight to the market via online channels do not make all the content as well though. Their rights are somewhat fragmented, for example they have the Monday Night Football game live on one tv network, another tv network will get rights to another game, etc etc, so that the casual fan can still catch some of the high-rating games through their tv services - but crucially not all of them. It is the diehard fans that the online service is aimed at, those who want to watch many games, every week. Much the same as PLP here with their agreement with TVNZ, but on a larger and more elaborate scale. And then obviously networks like ESPN make a crapload of content to preview and review matches.

If the interest is high enough then someone will make content other than the matches - if the Super Rugby rights went online I very much doubt that would be that, you have to sign up to see anything. You'd imagine they'd sign a deal with someone like TVNZ to show the 7.30 Saturday night game, and also allow them to use all footage etc to create pre-match and post-match content. Joe Casual will just catch that game each week and watch the highlights show to catch up on the rest, while the next level of fan will get the online service. If the sport is big enough, then the subsidiary deal with TVNZ or whoever would be big enough as well.

Enjoying the discussion. Hard to imagine Sky letting go of rugby rights. There would be too much of a mass exodus of subscribers.They must be able to blow Coliseum out of the water if they need to and will do so if it comes down to it. There were rumours they deliberately bid low for the EPL because they didn't want it anymore but this way they were able to say "we got outbid, there was nothing we could do." When they saw the backlash they scrambled to do a few deals with the big clubs for delayed games.

The issue with PLP has never been the price for me. Yes it's annoying to have to pay out more in addition to Sky, as there's enough other sport I follow to still need Sky. But the $150 last season or even $200 this season seems fair for all 380 games live. I also think it's good they have introduced a monthly payment option this season for those who may not want to, or are unable to fork out the full amount in one go. Although I do think a one team option could be good for people like me who tend to only really watch their team's games. Maybe something like $120 for one team and all other games could be available to those subscribers as PPV for $5-$10 each or something for the times you might like to watch a big game or relegation battle that's not your team. But I suspect the majority of subscribers would probably do this which Coliseum wouldn't want.

Live wasn't reallly key to me either as I usually recorded games and watched them as live as soon as I got up rather than staying up or getting up in the night.

Main issue for me is the quality of the product. On Sky I could put it on and easily watch it in HD on my 42 inch full HD TV, and I could pause, rewind or fast forward whenever I wanted. With PLP it's a lower quality picture which I have to watch on my small laptop screen to get the best experience, or I can plug the laptop into the TV via HDMI to watch it judder as though it was fimed on a handheld camcorder. My other options are to buy a new Samsung TV to replace my perfectly good 2012 LG one, or an Iphone to replace my 2013 Nokia or an Ipad I have no other use or need for. If taking the Apple route, I'll also need to buy an Apple TV device. And even then, with these options there is no guarantee that the apps will give me a better experience.

I guess it's unfortunate that having upgraded all my devices in the last 2 years, I didn't foresee that I would need certain brands to watch my football. Think I'll still be subscribing as the Sky delay for Arsenal TV was just too frustrating, but my hope is that there will eventually be an app for games consoles which may improve my experience without having to buy additional devices.

earlier on mine stuttered a little, but they seemed to fix that. Then it got even better with 4500 and I moved router into the lounge so could plug the Internet straight into laptop. 

Also a wireless mouse was great to fast forward or rewind as I pleased. The final round I watched on laptop rather than connecting to tv so I could watch multi screen and change games as different races unfolded - it was brilliant. 

I think they can't offer single team passes, as EPL dictates it so that top teams like man utd can't point to their individual team subscriptions being higher and command a higher revenue share. 

I tried it 2 or 3 times with free trials, the last time being for the final round when TAB sent out a code. With the 4500 option it was still much the same as it had been earlier in the season. Perfect on the laptop screen but like a handheld camcorder when connected to the TV. PLP support told me it must be problems with my equipment, yet I don't get the same issue with Sky Go, Arsenal TV online, and even some dodgy free streaming sites. If it was my equipment, wouldn't I experience the same issues with other streaming services? Unfortunately I can't move the router to the lounge as there's no phone point.

I'm glad for the free week trial given out at the games last weekend so I can at least try a few things in the first week before paying.

ajc28 did you read the article JD posted about Coliseum?

It seems if they want to go head to head with Sky, they have the money to do so.

But as you say, Sky know that rugby is their livelihood so they won't back away without the nastiest of fights. 

No I haven't read the article yet. But yeah I think Sky would pretty much go bust if they lost rugby and can't see any way they would let it happen.

With Netflicks on its way to NZ, Sky could well be on the way out

as long as sky has sport (mainly rugby) the will be fine. if that goes elsewhere they could fold quickly.

New Zealand needs an Anti-Siphoning law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-siphoning_laws_in_Australia but we are probably too far down the track with sports bodies too reliant on sky's money, so if the money was to decrease the quality probably would too 

I think rugby viewership numbers would be down year on year to be honest, probably a spike around any RWC but not sure they could survive on that alone. They'd have to consider adding advertising to some of their channels that are currently ad free.

It will be interesting to see what shows Netflicks is able to show in NZ - Sky and FTA channels do have the rights to a lot shows at present.

I have Netflix and have to say that if Netflix in NZ is going to be anything like the Netflix in the UK, I cannot see many people dropping Sky when it arrives.

Unless they are massive fans of shit movies from the 90s

Well this season is off to a good start. They are still selling subscriptions that expired yesterday. And you can still login to your expired accounts.

Also they have posted the following on Facebook regarding the Samsung apps:

"as the situation currently stands while we await the update to be released by Samsung which will expand the number of models it will be available to. (Additional caveat: Samsung are the only company so far willing to develop an app which is why they are the only ones who have one),"

Seems to suggest other brands are free to make one if they want doesn't it? I had understood from the statement last season that it was an exclusive deal with Samsung and other brands could not make one.

I asked about the above and this is their response:

"The exclusive part was about android devices due to needing high performance to support prolonged streaming and the huge variance in quality of android devices. You probably have noticed other broadcaster's apps also being billed as iOS and selected Samsung devices."

I have the US version of Netflix and it is miles better than the UK version. So much more content.

I believe it's 3000 hours vs 5000

each countries netflix has it's strengths and weaknesses. Like the US is a bit weaker when it comes to movies, than other countries, but probably generally you'd say it has a better range of tv shows.

an easy way to get the best of both is just to change your country through which ever service you are using to watch it (be it hola unblocker, unotelly or unblockus)

PLP still selling subscriptions that expired on Thursday.

Hmmm

So that 'free' one week pass actually cost $0.40 plus whenever else they text us.  And the code is just football united or something. Why not put that in the magazine? Now it'll cost another 20 cents to text them to stop texting me.  So if 10000 people texted them, that's the tv paid for right there. 

It has been a week and still no response from them to my text. A bit Mickey Mouse if they are trying to attract new subscribers.

It should have come through almost instantly. Followed by you replying YES then you get another with a link to enter the draw for the tv.

Sadly it didn't. Will have another go tomorrow when I wake up.

Still no option to re-subscribe or subscribe on their site. The link 'Subscribe' takes you a page with a $20 deal for the last 10 games of the 13/14 season and says it expires 31/7.

So no reason why they shouldn't have subscription offerings 4 days after their last option expired. And surely there is no reason why you couldn't sign up while another pass is still available and has yet to expire.

They make things so difficult this outfit. Which is the reason they will continue to get the hardcore football fans (like most of us) who will jump through hoops, but will miss out on the masses...

Tim Martin's piece in the weekend paper makes me nervous. He said they were very close to getting F1 and that SKY paid 3-4 times what the last deal cost and beat them in the bidding war. But that they have some big announcements coming soon.

They are some distance away from getting Football right, and are now looking to add more. You'd think the football experience will suffer once there's more content from other sports...

are you able to scan the article? would quite like a read and can't find it online anywhere.

the late subscription issue aside, I think they've done football better than sky have. Quite good that they're giving sky a run for its money in other sports too.