Liverpool Thread - Premier League Champions* 2019/20 (Part 2)

3999 replies · 842,801 views Locked
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
From the Daily Mail, make of it what you will
 
WHAT HAPPENED AT ANFIELD ON OCTOBER 15?

Manchester United faced Liverpool in a Premier League match. In the 57th minute Suarez fouled Evra and tempers flared at the next corner. They squared up to each other and Evra asked why Suarez kicked him. Suarez said he should forget about it, these things happen. Evra claims Suarez then became racially abusive, using the word 'negro'. Suarez denies using the word in that clash. Evra is clearly wound up, but nearby players do not seem particularly bothered.

A few minutes later Marriner calls the pair together. Suarez apologises and tries to pat Evra on the head. It is alleged Evra said: 'Don't touch me, you South American,' to which Suarez replies: 'Porque, negro?'  

Evra catches Kuyt two minutes later and is booked. He allegedly shouts at Marriner: 'You're only booking me because I'm black.'

Suarez is bemused, saying: 'I called him something his team-mates call him and even they were surprised by his reaction.'


Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Pretty sensible stuff from Gabriele Marcotti in the Times also:
 
Gabriele Marcotti

The release of the Independent Commission's judgment on the Patrice Evra-Luis Suarez case will, hopefully, shed more light on this thorny issue.  Each of us will then be able to draw our own conclusions.  But, already, there are some early thoughts that come to mind:

1. Until we accept that being a racist and engaging in racist abuse are two different things, we won't get very far. And, in that sense, it was disturbing that Liverpool's statement went out of its way to underscore the fact that Luis Suarez is not a racist, pointing out that he has a black grandparent, his involvement with a race-related charity and his captaincy of a multi-cultural team like Ajax.  
If the hearing put Liverpool in a position where they felt they needed point this out, then something's wrong. It's not the job of the footballing authorities to take action against people who have racism in their hearts and minds. Why? Because we still have freedom of thought. And, more importantly, nobody is a mind-reader. The hearing should have focused only on Suarez's actions because those are the only things that can be monitored and the only things that affect others.  Hopefully that's what happened, which would have made Suarez's ethnic descent entirely irrelevant.

2. It is fair to clearly make rules about what you can and cannot say on a football pitch and, if someone violates those rules, then he should be punished. The central question is how clear those rules are. Obviously, from here on out, it's imperative that the authorities and the club make it crystal clear to the players.  There is plenty of abuse that can be heaped on on opponent, but some of it is out of bounds.  Cross the line and you will be punished.  Evidently Suarez did not have a clear idea of what was and was not allowed.

3. One thing remains unclear to me.  It  has been widely reported that Suarez admitted making a reference to Evra's skin colour but he did not do so in a derogatory manner (at least not in his mind, based on the cultural mores in his native Uruguay).  If this was indeed the basis of his defence, then I think Liverpool played their hand poorly. 
At the risk of sounding like Sepp Blatter, perhaps a face-to-face sit-down with Evra followed by an apology if he took offence would probably have helped his case.  Evra, of course, would have been free to turn it down and pursue the case further, but at least Suarez would have shown an intent to atone. Instead, Liverpool's statement questions the reliability of Evra as a witness and points out that it's one person's word against another.
Strategically, you're best served choosing one path or another. Either Evra is not a credible accuser and it's man's word against another or Suarez said something but it was entirely innocent and certainly not meant as racist abuse. Trying to play it both ways undermines your case, regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

4. It has also been widely reported that Evra told the referee, Andre Marriner, that he was only being booked because he's black.  I hope we find out whether this is true and where this comes from. If Marriner heard it, then he ought to be disciplined.  You can't have a referee meekly accepting accusations that he is racially prejudiced without some kind of inquiry. As an accusation, it's exceptionally serious. If it's entirely made up then I hope Evra has a good libel lawyer because it's defamatory towards him.

5. I'm also eager to know how they arrived at an eight-match ban. And I hope we take this opportunity to reflect on what the purpose of punishment is.  If it's to rehabilitate, then you don't need an eight-match ban. You need to simply sit Suarez down and explain a thing or two to him. If it's to deter others from following in Suarez's footsteps, fair enough. It's certainly a long enough ban that it serves as a massive deterrent. But it's worth remembering that a seven-game ban or nine-game ban would have served the exact same purpose.  It's not as if a footballer sits and thinks: "If I racially abuse my opponent, I'll get eight games so I better not, but if I only got three games it would be worth the satisfaction of calling him a black so-and-so." Let's not kid ourselves. It's hard to conclude that they did anything but pluck the number eight out of thin air.

6. The only precedent I can remember in a high profile match came back in October 2000, when Sinisa Mihajlovic racially abused Patrick Vieira in a Champions League match.  Mihajlovic was banned for two games.  But there are substantial differences.  Mihajlovic admitted it immediately after the game. He said that he had been provoked by Vieira, who had called him a "gypsy s***", a version of events which Vieira never disputed.  And Mihajlovic made a very public apology, taking the "heat of battle/reciprocal insults" defence. 
In other words, there was a very clear defensive strategy that played out very quickly.  Which is why he only got a two-game ban. There was no dispute about what was said and there was near-immediate atonement. For those reasons, you can't really compare it to this case.
(There was a curious epilogue to this whole affair. In 2006, Mihajlovic retired from football and became Roberto Mancini's assistant at Inter.  That same summer, Inter signed Vieira and Mihajlovic, effectively, became his boss.  Now, of course, Vieira is one of Mancini's assistants at Manchester City. Whatever their differences, it's pretty obvious that Vieira and Mihajlovic buried the hatchet rather quickly.)

7. All that said, the Commission had an extremely difficult job to do.  And it approached the task knowing that, whatever it came up with, it would come in for criticism.

Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
james dean wrote:
Pretty sensible stuff from Gabriele Marcotti in the Times also:
Gabriele Marcotti

1. Until we accept that being a racist and engaging in racist abuse are two different things, we won't get very far.�And, in that sense, it was disturbing that Liverpool's statement went out of its way to underscore the fact that Luis Suarez is not a racist, pointing out that he has a black grandparent, his involvement with a race-related charity and his captaincy of a multi-cultural team like Ajax. �



You call that sensible? Parentage also is a red herring in the "I'm not a racist" arguement.

Context and intent is the key (partially explained later on) - but that opening statement is redonkulous.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Sup my Negrito Red Men!

Big morning so far. Suarez starting. All the players warming up in Suarez 7 shirts and the following statement from the players:

Luis Suarez is our teammate and our friend and as a group of players we are shocked and angered that he has been found guilty by the FA.

We totally support Luis and we want the world to know that. We know he is not racist.

We are a squad of many different nationalities and backgrounds. All of us support the Club's commitment to fighting racism. All of us accept there is no place in the game for any form of discrimination. As a group of players we totally support the Kick it Out Campaign.

We have lived, trained and played with Luis for almost 12 months and we don't recognise the way he has been portrayed. We will continue to support Luis through this difficult period, and as a popular and respected friend of all his teammates, he will not walk alone.


Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Should be 5 zip at the half. A tonne of chances but Al Hasbi having a good game. Usual story, blah, blah, blah...
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Tyler wrote:




Even Kenny was wearing one!
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
We will get fined for that no doubt!
 
Come on boys, we need to kill games like this
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Sup my Negrito Red Men!

8 post ban for you TK
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Can one get banned for non racial abuse? ie if someone was constantly calling another player a c**t, f**khead, w**ker etc for the duration of a game would he get banned for 8 matches?

Im not in anyway condoning racism or anything like that but this whole situation reminds me of a south park episode where the boys were learning about hate crimes and were confused as they thought that any crime was done with hate.

What im trying to say is that now that the FA have banned Suarez for 8 matches should they not ban any player they find to be abusing another player in any way, racist or otherwise. Abuse is still abuse.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Positives? Erm, clean sheet?
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Downey26 wrote:
Can one get banned for non racial abuse? ie if someone was constantly calling another player a c**t, f**khead, w**ker etc for the duration of a game would he get banned for 8 matches?Im not in anyway condoning racism or anything like that but this whole situation reminds me of a south park episode where the boys were learning about hate crimes and were confused as they thought that any crime was done with hate. What im trying to say is that now that the FA have banned Suarez for 8 matches should they not ban any player they find to be abusing another player in any way, racist or otherwise. Abuse is still abuse.




According to their own laws, (E1, 2 something like that) yes they can. But they don't.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
TheKop wrote:
Positives? Erm, clean sheet?
No injuries?  Grrrr grumpy now
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
40 sots in the game. No goals.
Al Hasbi 9 saves (best equal with De Gea?)
3 or 4 LFC penalties saved this season.
17 shots off the woodwork this season.

When will it end?
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Grumpiness sets in that even xmas won't fix.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Sooo frustrating!!!!!! Worked all day looking forward to watching the game when I got hme!

Positives? for opposing teams, show downing onto his weak foot every time and he's got nothing!

We are lacking go forward urgency, we seem happy to take an age to keep the ball in transition from defense to attack knocking the ball about but by then wigan had dropped onto their 18yard box changing their "3" at the back to 5 and crowding out space so we couldn't play thru them. If we put it wide they were able to double team any wide player. Bit disappointed that it took so long to get carroll on as after the first half you could see it was going to be one of those games. Get some form of cross into the box and hope that carroll can hustle and bustle his way in and get something on it!
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
james dean wrote:

3. One thing remains unclear to me. �It �has been widely reported that Suarez admitted making a reference to Evra's skin colour but he did not do so in a derogatory manner (at least not in his mind, based on the cultural mores in his native Uruguay). �If this was indeed the basis of his defence, then I think Liverpool played their hand poorly.�


Lol!

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Junior82 wrote:
james dean wrote:

3. One thing remains unclear to me. �It �has been widely reported that Suarez admitted making a reference to Evra's skin colour but he did not do so in a derogatory manner (at least not in his mind, based on the cultural mores in his native Uruguay). �If this was indeed the basis of his defence, then I think Liverpool played their hand poorly.�


Lol!


LOL at image/caption.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Suarez looks tired, we should give him a rest.... for 8 or so games
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
glen_johnson Glen Johnson
I will support who i want when i want!!! There are a lot of reasons why I'm standing by Luis Suarez!!!



Jazcobar2011-12-23 08:07:01
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
https://twitter.com/#!/NicoFleche85/status/150395468118114305/photo/1
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
ha! Like it!
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Stoked ! Got a Charlie Adam home top for christmas from my older brother.! now i know why he was telling me not to buy one ha so happy !!
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
so Suarez gets 8 matches and fined 40000 pounds, John Terry gets a 2500 pound fine maximum. What does the FA have against Uruguayans? thats discrimination....
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
More likely favouritism for Terry.

Now here's something that is entirely more sensible than all the pontificating/justification bollocks that you pyul lot have been cr*pping on about.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
big game tomorrow morning. as much as i want Blackburn to stay in the epl (for Ryan Nelson) i think Liverpool need to win by 3 or 4 to really prove they are worthy of a spot in Europe next season. YNWA
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Kyle4276 wrote:
big game tomorrow morning. as much as i want Blackburn to stay in the epl (for Ryan Nelson) i think Liverpool need to win by 3 or 4 to really prove they are worthy of a spot in Europe next season. YNWA


How's that going for you then?

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Arsenal wrote:
Kyle4276 wrote:
big game tomorrow morning. as much as i want Blackburn to stay in the epl (for Ryan Nelson) i think Liverpool need to win by 3 or 4 to really prove they are worthy of a spot in Europe next season. YNWA


How's that going for you then?


At least we didn't lose to them, aye Arsenal
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
At home against the bottom of the table who were missing 3 first choice out of their back four and their first choice keeper. Zero excuses. That was sh*te.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
damn. didnt watch the game but saw highlights. Keeper was amazing to keep out Carroll right at the end. but still no excuse for a draw against the bottom club
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
robags wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Kyle4276 wrote:
big game tomorrow morning. as much as i want Blackburn to stay in the epl (for Ryan Nelson) i think Liverpool need to win by 3 or 4 to really prove they are worthy of a spot in Europe next season. YNWA


How's that going for you then?


At least we didn't lose to them, aye Arsenal


True - you have a good record of taking a point from rubbish teams at Anfield.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Arsenal wrote:
[QUOTE=robags] [QUOTE=Arsenal] [QUOTE=Kyle4276]  True - you have a good record of taking a point from rubbish teams who have all eleven players at Anfield.Unlike us , who are so far up ourselves that we can only be bothered taking one point at home from 10 man sides  , because it simply isn't worth us even trying for all three. 
 
Fixed.Now piss off
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Learn to quote, you're a shambles.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Yep , sorry about that.
Looks a bit untidy.Was going to edit but had to go and do something in a hurry at work.
Sentiment remains though.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Jazz

Need a bit of humor! Just checked and unfortunately we have newcastle at home so probably another frustrating draw with Krul having a blinder!
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Suarez out again. Interesting article https://www.thisisanfield.com/2011/12/suarez-out-of-newcastle-match/

what do the FA have against Suarez?
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Kyle4276 wrote:
Suarez out again. Interesting article https://www.thisisanfield.com/2011/12/suarez-out-of-newcastle-match/

what do the FA have against Suarez?


I hope that's not a serious question.......
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Everton FC wrote:
Kyle4276 wrote:
Suarez out again. Interesting article https://www.thisisanfield.com/2011/12/suarez-out-of-newcastle-match/

what do the FA have against Suarez?


I hope that's not a serious question.......


it is though. why slam him with the big suspensions and fines when other players get away with sod all punishment?
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Rooney got a two match ban for his candid camera episode so I think suarez got off lightly with one.

Moral of the story is that he should not have done it. end of.
Permalink Permalink

This topic is locked.