Kiwi Players Elsewhere

Andrew Durante (Melbourne Victory | A-Leagues)

826 replies · 165,076 views
over 12 years ago
Steve-O wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Durante

Wikipedia says loan.  Case closed.

The Wellington Phoenix have let go of Captain Andrew Durante to join A League rivals Sydney FC, but there's a catch. Durante will play for last years Champions in the upcoming Asian Champions League,before retuning in June, after inking a temporary deal with the club last night. Durante admits it may look a little confusing, but FFA rules mean he'll have to chop and change between the clubs rather than do a straight loan. The Wellington Phoenix have approved the arrangement with coach Ricki Herbert more than happy for his captain to take advantage of the opportunity. RadioLIVE's Willy Nicholls caught up with Andrew before he flies out to Sydney today.

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Durante-to-leave-Phoenix/tabid/441/articleID/18772/Default.aspx [Video doesn't exist anymore]


All that NZ Football have to do is send FIFA my link instead of yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 12 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Steve-O wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Durante

Wikipedia says loan.  Case closed.

The Wellington Phoenix have let go of Captain Andrew Durante to join A League rivals Sydney FC, but there's a catch. Durante will play for last years Champions in the upcoming Asian Champions League,before retuning in June, after inking a temporary deal with the club last night. Durante admits it may look a little confusing, but FFA rules mean he'll have to chop and change between the clubs rather than do a straight loan. The Wellington Phoenix have approved the arrangement with coach Ricki Herbert more than happy for his captain to take advantage of the opportunity. RadioLIVE's Willy Nicholls caught up with Andrew before he flies out to Sydney today.

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Durante-to-leave-Phoenix/tabid/441/articleID/18772/Default.aspx [Video doesn't exist anymore]


All that NZ Football have to do is send FIFA my link instead of yours.
May as well change the Wikipedia page to say that Durante was born and raised in nz and never played for Sydney while they're at it.

Allegedly

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over 12 years ago
Tegal wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Steve-O wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Durante

Wikipedia says loan.  Case closed.

The Wellington Phoenix have let go of Captain Andrew Durante to join A League rivals Sydney FC, but there's a catch. Durante will play for last years Champions in the upcoming Asian Champions League,before retuning in June, after inking a temporary deal with the club last night. Durante admits it may look a little confusing, but FFA rules mean he'll have to chop and change between the clubs rather than do a straight loan. The Wellington Phoenix have approved the arrangement with coach Ricki Herbert more than happy for his captain to take advantage of the opportunity. RadioLIVE's Willy Nicholls caught up with Andrew before he flies out to Sydney today.

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Durante-to-leave-Phoenix/tabid/441/articleID/18772/Default.aspx [Video doesn't exist anymore]


All that NZ Football have to do is send FIFA my link instead of yours.

May as well change the Wikipedia page to say that Durante was born and raised in nz and never played for Sydney while they're at it.

And when he played for Newcastle, he commuted daily from Wellington
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over 12 years ago

Any likelihood that FIFA could come up with some BS like "If NZF waited for us to confirm, he would have been eligible as he met all the criteria, but because NZF went against us we are now ruling him out indefinitely just to be dicks"

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
TopLeft07 wrote:

Why does Dura have an apparent connection with Seattle Sounders?

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/68888/andrew-durante?cc=3436

 

It's clearly a mix-up with "Andrew Duran" who was a Seattle Sounders defender until they waived him to make room for another player in April this year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Duran

 A mix-up seems to have been made in some football data base ESPN and MLS use, leading to this error being repeated all over the net on many football sites.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Durante's eligibility for NZ: 

In a worse case scenario FIFA have disqualified teams from competitions for fielding ineligible players: 

- In a case in 2011, Fifa disqualified the Equatorial Guinea women's team from the London Olympics qualifying phase and suspended forward Jade Boho Sayo for two months over her disputed nationality.

- In August 2011, FIFA expelled Syria from the 2014 FIFA World Cup qualification process following the appearance of George Mourad in a senior qualification match against Tajikistan. Mourad had made friendly match appearances for Sweden earlier in his career, but had not requested permission from FIFA to change national associations prior to playing for Syria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules

- However, this year Burkina Faso , Gabon and Sudan have all been docked points during the 2014 World Cup qualifiers for using players deemed to be ineligible for various reasons - but not expelled from the competition...Equatorial Guinea are currently under investigation for fielding an ineligible player in an April qualifier where none of the Equatorial Guinea starting line-up was born there: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22092031

I think it will work in Durante's favour that he asked FIFA for permission to play for New Zealand months prior to taking the field (even if they didn't rule on it) and he fulfills all other FIFA requirements under Statute 17 with the five year continuous residency the only thing questioned. He fulfills the requirement to hold the permanent nationality of a country without being dependent upon any residency requirements etc.

I think FIFA will decide that three months spent on loan from a New Zealand club to a team in the same league won't be material.

(They should make an exception anyway because it's one of a handful of leagues internationally that FIFA allow to field teams from more than one country).

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Found this from the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAF) - clearly the interpretation has to be in the spirit of what FIFA intended -i.e. to stop countries bringing in foreign players with no demonstrated tie to the country.: http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/Intellectual_Life/10_e._CAS_Irish_case.pdf

"The interpretation of the statutes and rules of a sport association has to be objective

and always start with the wording of the rule. The adjudicating body will have to 

consider the meaning of the rule, looking at the language used, and the appropriate 

grammar and syntax. The identification of the intentions of the association which 

drafted the rule will be further taken into consideration, as well as any relevant 

historical background and the regulatory context in which the particular rule is 

located. In this respect, according to article 8 of the Swiss Civil Code, the party 

alleging an analysis bears the burden of demonstrating the accuracy of it. It is not 

sufficient for it simply to make an assertion as to the relevant rules’ derivation."


Big Pete 65, Christchurch

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over 12 years ago

Far out that article on stuff re: Dura annoyed me. We all knew going into the game that we wanted the Solomons to appeal his eligbility, yet it says NZ Football are in hot water for feilding a player believed to be Andrew Durante.. what the! 

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over 12 years ago

Just two things on Dura:

1. I've heard some criticsm of NZF, but really isn't it FIFA's fault for mucking around with his eligibility proceedings for so long?

2. Does anyone know whether Dura plans to stay around in NZ once his playing career is over? Because I can't help but feel slightly moralistic if he has no plans to remain here and simply wants to play international football. (Note: This is completely irrelevant to the issue) 

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over 12 years ago
N-Bomb wrote:

Just two things on Dura:

1. I've heard some criticsm of NZF, but really isn't it FIFA's fault for mucking around with his eligibility proceedings for so long?

2. Does anyone know whether Dura plans to stay around in NZ once his playing career is over? Because I can't help but feel slightly moralistic if he has no plans to remain here and simply wants to play international football. (Note: This is completely irrelevant to the issue) 


This.
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over 12 years ago
2ndBest wrote:

No. This will determine where he can play for the AWs or not. Well until he does 5 years here after that stint in Sydney.

So the stint in Sydney could completely reset the clock for him; i.e. he needs 5 years since that date?
Or does he need 5 years total, and effectively needs to wait another 3 months (probably less by now) until he hits the 5 years total residency?
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over 12 years ago

Five years continuous residence.

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over 12 years ago

Rules say continuously. so the stint would reset the clock.

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over 12 years ago

So going on holiday would mean the clock resets too?


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over 12 years ago

Holidaying assumes you are living back in NZ so would have thought it was fine.


for me, spending 3 months working in another country seems dubious. 

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over 12 years ago
2ndBest wrote:

Rules say continuously. so the stint would reset the clock.


Continuously is rather loaded though. The majority of professional players cannot live continuously anywhere with international competition especially at club level. By that rationale Durante would have to never travel to any away games to Australia etc or any pre-season trips (India) etc. 
I don't think the issue is solely around Sydney 2011 its about the total number of days in each year he's spent in NZ. He has to have spent at least 240 each of those 5 years which would've been checked in order for his citizenship to be rubber stamped which it was. 
Personally I think both statements by Fifa and NZ Football are really nothing to read into - Durante is fine


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over 12 years ago

Well I guess the question is, whether FIFA set a higher bar than what the NZ govt sets.

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over 12 years ago
2ndBest wrote:

Well I guess the question is, whether FIFA set a higher bar than what the NZ govt sets.


Which is the ultimate question yes. I think we'd have excellent grounds for appeal if it's overruled. My understanding is Durante spent more 240 days in NZ in 2011 (including that Sydney loan) so really there shouldn't be any issue with spell that some in the media are well overstating at present


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over 12 years ago
I can see some bored FIFA lawyer who has a job for life looking at this, getting a hard on and thinking what a dodgy dodgy case. Born and bred in ausi, lived there for 85 per cent of his life, NZ has some one sided immigration rules meaning he becomes a resident the day he flys across the tasman (no it doesnt work the other way - those racist ausis!!). Subsequently named in an Ausi side but never made the field. Let's try and decline this guy and make an example, who are we going to upset? (the yellow fever?). How are we going to do it, hey here's three months in Ausi.

Auckland will rise once more

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
TV wrote:
2ndBest wrote:

Well I guess the question is, whether FIFA set a higher bar than what the NZ govt sets.


Which is the ultimate question yes. I think we'd have excellent grounds for appeal if it's overruled. My understanding is Durante spent more 240 days in NZ in 2011 (including that Sydney loan) so really there shouldn't be any issue with spell that some in the media are well overstating at present


I wouldn't automatically assume he met the citizenship rules. The minister can do what ever he likes and this is the type of case they may well have used their discretion. Was he absent for 126 days? Very likely three months is usually 93 days. How many away trips did he have with the Phoenix and how many days do they stay there? Throw in a holiday to Ausi in the off season and he is likely over


Auckland will rise once more

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over 12 years ago
TV wrote:
2ndBest wrote:

Rules say continuously. so the stint would reset the clock.


Continuously is rather loaded though. The majority of professional players cannot live continuously anywhere with international competition especially at club level. By that rationale Durante would have to never travel to any away games to Australia etc or any pre-season trips (India) etc. 

I don't think the issue is solely around Sydney 2011 its about the total number of days in each year he's spent in NZ. He has to have spent at least 240 each of those 5 years which would've been checked in order for his citizenship to be rubber stamped which it was. 

Personally I think both statements by Fifa and NZ Football are really nothing to read into - Durante is fine


Like I said previously, 'Residence' does not necessarily entail continuous physical presence for the set amount of time. But it's up to NZF to make that case to FIFA.

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over 12 years ago
N-Bomb wrote:

Just two things on Dura:

1. I've heard some criticsm of NZF, but really isn't it FIFA's fault for mucking around with his eligibility proceedings for so long?

2. Does anyone know whether Dura plans to stay around in NZ once his playing career is over? Because I can't help but feel slightly moralistic if he has no plans to remain here and simply wants to play international football. (Note: This is completely irrelevant to the issue) 

I don't know if we should hold him to a higher standard than others. We wouldn't expect McGlinchey, Smeltz or Reid to come back to NZ to live once their careers are over. By the time Durante's Phoenix stint is over, he may well have spent more time in NZ than some of them. Does being born in NZ or having a Kiwi parent, make you more of a Kiwi than someone that has moved to NZ and raised their family here?

As long as he shows the respect and commitment to the Silver Fern, that he would the Kangaroo he grew up dreaming about wearing, I have no issue myself.
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over 12 years ago
I just hope that NZ football are not doing this half assed and saying Fred feel like presenting this case? My god I hope they have hired some experts in the field of immigration



Auckland will rise once more

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over 12 years ago

I know the meme here is that NZF are incompetent boobs, but this is what they wanted, this is why they played Dura in the dead rubber so they could get a firm answer one way or another, so they wouldn't be wasting all this money if they didn't think they had a case and were prepared to fight it.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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over 12 years ago
I know they wanted it but I think you are giving them way to much credit to assume that they are fully prepared with a watertight case and have engaged legal experts to act upon their behalf.



Auckland will rise once more

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over 12 years ago

I think the thing with Sydney can be looked at from this one angle:

Where was his mail being delivered? Where did his wife and child live? Was he calling Sydney home or was he just bunking down at Mums?


It's easy for FIFA to say that technically this and technically that but common sense says 'he lives in Wellngton'

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 12 years ago

My understanding was FIFA had given us the non-official 'OK' to play Durante in the Solomons. Not so?

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over 12 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:

I think the thing with Sydney can be looked at from this one angle:

Where was his mail being delivered? Where did his wife and child live? Was he calling Sydney home or was he just bunking down at Mums?


It's easy for FIFA to say that technically this and technically that but common sense says 'he lives in Wellngton'


That's exactly the kind of point I've been driving at JV.
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over 12 years ago

the scariest thing for me is that de jong is still fronting the issue for NZ football.

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over 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

the scariest thing for me is that de jong is still fronting the issue for NZ football.

You know I do agree with you but then when I really think about it, this is not a governance issue for the board/Franko to front and its not an organisational issue so the CEO wouldn't be fronting either. It's about player elligibility and as the 'head of football' it's Fred's domain. I don't think we should confuse Fred the commentator (who is wanting) with Fred the businessman (who had a successful career before NZF job) so I think we kinda need to be cool with it unfortunately.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 12 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:

I think the thing with Sydney can be looked at from this one angle:

Where was his mail being delivered? Where did his wife and child live? Was he calling Sydney home or was he just bunking down at Mums?


It's easy for FIFA to say that technically this and technically that but common sense says 'he lives in Wellngton'


That's exactly the kind of point I've been driving at JV.

Part of me wants to do the typical 'she'll be right mate' but this is FIFA and its not as simple as that. I just hope that NZF really make a full and proper representation of this issue to FIFA and explain it all in detail and get the Phoenix and Sydney on board with this (in fact is this not ideal with Tony P having been on both sides???)  and not 'forget to man the fax'

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 12 years ago

Yeah, they need to take it seriously and provide a strong argument. But FIFA itself appeared a bit uncertain initially (which is why they dragged their feet on giving the official green light), so I think they're there to be convinced.

It's all on the NZF now.

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over 12 years ago

We're fucked then

                                                                        COYN    

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over 12 years ago

It's a pretty crap system where it takes a protest to get FIFA off their arse and make a ruling. It should have been as simple as NZF presenting their case [application] with FIFA saying yes or no before he played. All the rest is just bullshit.

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over 12 years ago

It's a pretty crap system where it takes a protest to get FIFA off their arse and make a ruling. It should have been as simple as NZF presenting their case [application] with FIFA saying yes or no before he played. 


It usually is, but this is quite an unusual set of circumstances.
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over 12 years ago
el grapadura wrote:

It's a pretty crap system where it takes a protest to get FIFA off their arse and make a ruling. It should have been as simple as NZF presenting their case [application] with FIFA saying yes or no before he played. 


It usually is, but this is quite an unusual set of circumstances.

The facts haven't changed, a ruling could have been made before hand
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over 12 years ago

A ruling should have been made before hand but FIFA refused to do it.


VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 12 years ago
Bullion wrote:
el grapadura wrote:

It's a pretty crap system where it takes a protest to get FIFA off their arse and make a ruling. It should have been as simple as NZF presenting their case [application] with FIFA saying yes or no before he played. 


It usually is, but this is quite an unusual set of circumstances.

The facts haven't changed, a ruling could have been made before hand


It was NZF who really pushed it through by wanting to play Durante in March and not wanting to wait for the official ruling.
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over 12 years ago


and why wouldnt they he is a new zealand citizen now and back then also

I LOVE LAMP

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over 12 years ago
chefmivec wrote:


and why wouldnt they he is a new zealand citizen now and back then also

Citizenship has very little to do with FIFA eligibility, for fairly obvious reasons
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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

nufc_nz wrote:

What I'm saying is, this whole thing will be sorted in the coming months


Told you.


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