Wellington Phoenix Men

AFC President message to FFA: no NZ teams by 2011

621 replies · 9,179 views
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Double post.wellyphoenixfan2008-11-28 00:12:59
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
More talk from Terry
 
Football Australia, Phoenix rally against threatBy MICHAEL COCKERILL - SMH | Friday, 28 November 2008

The Asian Football Confederation might have doubts about the longevity of Wellington Phoenix, but owner Terry Serepisos insists his fledgling A-League club "isn't going anywhere".

AFC president Mohamed bin Hammam caught both Football Federation Australia and the Phoenix by surprise a fortnight ago when he made it clear he did not want the New Zealand club in the A-League past 2011, when FIFA's approval for the club to be treated as a "special case" expires.

Those comments have forced the FFA into damage control, and during AFC executive meetings in Shanghai early this week it's believed chairman Frank Lowy and chief executive Ben Buckley both argued the case for Wellington's continued participation in the A-League.

Whether bin Hammam is inclined to relax his views remains unclear, but Buckley chose his words carefully before saying: "Let's make one thing clear, there are no issues between now and 2011 regarding Wellington. There is some work to do to clarify what happens after that, but we'll be sitting down with the club to work though the issues. In everyone's best interests, those are not discussions which should be held in public."

Serepisos, for now, remains happy to let the FFA take up the case on his behalf, but has emphasised he expects Wellington's long-term future to be clarified sooner rather than later.

"Obviously, this is a sensitive situation, and it would be nice if the FFA could sort it out without us having to get involved," he said.

"For now, we're letting them do that. But it's also true to say we will be protecting our interests. As I said when I started the club [last year], I am in this for the long haul. I've not spent $NZ10 million of my money on something that's only going to be around for a couple of years. We've got big plans for the future, we're as ambitious as anyone else, and we are putting the structures in place to make this a strong club for the long term."

Wellington's problems are unique in world football - not only does the club compete outside its country, it also competes outside its confederation, geographically at least - following Australia's switch from Oceania to Asia in 2006.

But Serepisos claims the club's confused status has already been worked out at the highest levels.

"We have a letter from FIFA, which we got a few months ago, which states we are regarded as an Australian club which resides in New Zealand.

"That's why all our players are registered with the FFA. We've closed the door on competing in Oceania, that's not going to happen. Our future is with Asia, that's what we are pursuing. If we win the league this season, for instance, we expect to be playing in the Asian Champions League. That's our position, and we believe we have the support to do that."

Buckley, meanwhile, confirmed Australia would pursue extra places in the ACL beyond 2011 after the revamp of Asia's showpiece club competition was approved by the AFC this week. The new ACL will be a 32-team competition from next year, with a one-off final [in Tokyo] and a fivefold increase in prizemoney to $US20 million ($31 million). The only changes made at the 11th hour by the AFC were to include clubs from Uzbekistan and Qatar at the expense of India and UAE.

Australia's two places were confirmed, but with the A-League entering an expansion phase, Buckley made it clear Australia would mount a strong claim for at least one more slot when the competition is next reviewed in 2011. The AFC has a rule that no domestic league can have more than one-third of its clubs qualifying for the ACL.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nice


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tony P wrote:
loyalgunner wrote:
They seriously need to focus on getting the license renewed and then focus on sorting out this AFC problem (and get us a few strikers).
 
Dont worry we will win the battle. Just the media trying to stir it up. I am confident. Plus it was a good way to give Sony a plug.


Good on ya Tony.  Btw, the mo is awesome and you should keep growing it until it is long at both ends (in the Mongolian fashion).
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
MLS clubs have never played in the Copa Libertadores...although I think the US national team (and Japan also) have played in the South American champs (can't for the life of me remember what's it called right now).
sorry  i was thinking of  concacaf champions league
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tony P wrote:
loyalgunner wrote:
They seriously need to focus on getting the license renewed and then focus on sorting out this AFC problem (and get us a few strikers).

�

Dont worry we will win the battle. Just the media trying to stir it up. I am confident. Plus it was a good way to give Sony a plug.
Are you confident of signing someone good enough to replace Smeltz?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
giddyup wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
MLS clubs have never played in the Copa Libertadores...although I think the US national team (and Japan also) have played in the South American champs (can't for the life of me remember what's it called right now).
sorry  i was thinking of  concacaf champions league
 
Mexican clubs Guadalajara, America and FC Atlas played in the Copa Libertadores this year. The only thing it means is if they win, they cannot represent the region at the World Club Cup.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Paulinho wrote:
giddyup wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
MLS clubs have never played in the Copa Libertadores...although I think the US national team (and Japan also) have played in the South American champs (can't for the life of me remember what's it called right now).
sorry� i was thinking of� concacaf champions league

�

Mexican clubs Guadalajara, America and FC Atlas played in the Copa Libertadores this year. The only thing it means is if they win, they cannot represent the region at the World Club Cup.


Yep, that's been discussed already, they've been doing that for a number of years now.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Article""A-League plans midweek rounds"


Lowy also said that he had a top-level meeting with Asian Football Confederation president Mohamed Bin Hammam in Shanghai this week to seek clarification over the latter's shock announcement that no foreign club should form part of the A-League beyond 2011.

Bin Hammam's declaration in Adelaide two weeks ago caught the FFA and Wellington Phoenix by surprise but Lowy said the parties concerned will be working on a solution.

"I had a one-on-one meeting with Mr Hammam on Wednesday and I hope we can find a solution for that," Lowy said.

"Wellington have to be with us till 2011 through contractual rights but we are working through the AFC to keep the club in business.

"We are trying to find a formula whereby Wellington can play with us."

Lowy confirmed that one option being considered was transferring the A-League licence from New Zealand Football to Wellington Phoenix, effectively making Phoenix an Australian club based in New Zealand.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hate to bring this up again but...

Soccernet Interview with Mohamed Bin Hammam

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=598136&sec=global&root=global&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1&cc=3436

Might be going for the FIFA Presidency soon...

From the interview below.

What is the latest on your discussions with Football Federation Australia about Wellington Phoenix's future in the A-League?

For a New Zealand team to be playing (in the A-League) from outside the territory of an AFC member, Australia was given special permission from FIFA's committee and were provided with this permission until the year 2011.
Our criteria insists that all clubs are from the territory of the federation. They must be registered under the commercial law of the same country. We don't allow outside clubs to be part of that league. But considering that this club already has this permission from FIFA we presume they are also committed commercially, with their sponsors, TV rights holders and so on. We don't want to break that and we want to protect that league so we put that in our consideration. We allow them to participate for now in Australia. But it will only be until 2011 after which either this club must definitely disappear or they'll re-register themselves in Australia as an Australian club under the law of Australia. That would mean that all New Zealand players would be treated as foreigners so they would only be able to have three New Zealanders playing.

And if Wellington won the title (before 2011), or were runner's up, they could not participate in the AFC's competition. That's very clear.

Is there any flexibility in this?

Absolutely not, absolutely not.

...Only 3 Kiwis allowed...farken...
DKP222008-12-02 23:23:29
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Depressing.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Damn right it is. I'm finding it more and more difficult to visualise a positive outcome for us. Doesn't seem as though Bin Hammam is going to let this one go, especially reading those chilling 'absolutely nots'.
 
I suspect that FFA will bend with the wind on this one....
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Not good at all but atleast we could stay with only 3 kiwis? Don't know if they would want to do this but who would you keep?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
StopOut wrote:
Damn right it is. I'm finding it more and more difficult to visualise a positive outcome for us. Doesn't seem as though Bin Hammam is going to let this one go, especially reading those chilling 'absolutely nots'.
�

I suspect that FFA will bend with the wind on this one....
Also it looks like it is even more unlikely that NZ will go into the AFC.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We're f**ked. Plain and simple.

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
We're f**ked. Plain and simple.
 
On the plus side weve ideal management for it!
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Get that Nix merchandise snapped up while you can

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
"2011 after which either this club must definitely disappear or they'll re-register themselves in Australia as an Australian club under the law of Australia. That would mean that all New Zealand players would be treated as foreigners so they would only be able to have three New Zealanders playing."
 
What does that mean? That if we re-register in Australia we can stay? Or does it mean we have to shift the whole operation to Australia (like that Seattle NBA team that moved to Oklahoma)? The whole import thing would be a ACL thing, cos teams are allowed 5 imports in the A-League (from next season), not 3. The FFA  has ruled that we can have Kiwis, but if it came to Asian copmpetition matchday squads, then of course they couldn't be counted as Australian.   
 
Paulinho2008-12-03 09:48:13
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Is there any chance of Kiwis not being imports for all the teams and not just us?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nope. Because then they'll be imports for the ACL, and that wouldn't work.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Is there any chance of Kiwis not being imports for all the teams and not just us?


That is how it is now...

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:

Is there any chance of Kiwis not being imports for all the teams and not just us?
That is how it is now...


No, thats how it was. We're the only team for whom NZers don't count as imports. Both Smeltz and Mossy will be taking up import spots next season, and Bertos did last season (which was when the rule changed)
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yomcat wrote:
valeo wrote:

Is there any chance of Kiwis not being imports for all the teams and not just us?
That is how it is now...


No, thats how it was. We're the only team for whom NZers don't count as imports. Both Smeltz and Mossy will be taking up import spots next season, and Bertos did last season (which was when the rule changed)


Oops, misread his post.

Moss definately wont be an import though
valeo2008-12-03 10:10:04

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Paulinho wrote:
�

"2011 after which either this club must definitely disappear or they'll re-register themselves in Australia as an Australian club under the law of Australia. That would mean that all New Zealand players would be treated as foreigners so they would only be able to have three New Zealanders playing."

�

What does that mean? That if we�re-register in Australia we can stay? Or does it mean we have to shift the whole operation to Australia (like that Seattle NBA team that moved to Oklahoma)? The whole�import thing would be a ACL thing, cos teams are allowed 5 imports�in the A-League (from next season), not 3. The FFA� has ruled�that we can�have�Kiwis, but if it came to Asian�copmpetition matchday squads, then of course they couldn't be counted as Australian.   

�
Im pretty sure we could be based in NZ but only have 3/5 spots. Hopefully the FFA would raise the amount of import spots we could have. An out of the blue solution could be a merger with Canberra and play home games in both Canberra and Wellington if we had to be based in Australia.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Here's an idea - instead of the OFC merging into the AFC, maybe NZ can finally drop the formality and officially merge into Australia? 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
robbwatson wrote:
Here's an idea - instead of the OFC merging into the AFC, maybe NZ can finally drop the formality and officially merge into Australia? 
 
I second that. NZ was administered as part of NSW before so no reason why it could not be again. Or at least as a state of Australia. It already is in sporting terms anyway.
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
at least doing that would make our dollar stronger. and we could introduce australians to real beer!
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We'd win State of Origin Rugby League too >:)

We'd pwn the world with our fantastic cricket team (which the only NZers is Vetorri and Southee)

What else would we do?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Interesting idea but in keeping with the thread if you ever wanted to know how much football is seen to provide a link into Asia for Australia... have a boo peep at this link from the Aussie today.

It's in some ways lol funny that Football to save the tourism industry ....... forget "Australia" the film its football ....

What is of more interest is look at what department the reporter comes from ........ "political reporter" with research and reported in the political / business pages not the sporting pages.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...013404,00.html


Football focus to kick tourism goals



Imre Salusinszky, NSW political reporter | December 03, 2008


SOCCER could be the unlikely saviour of the flagging Australian tourism industry, according to research by the NSW Parliamentary Library.

Investment in soccer could also boost Australia's exporting and diplomatic efforts, thanks to the surging popularity of the sport in Asia.

Researcher and economist John Wilkinson says universities could leverage Australia's membership of the Asian Football Confederation by offering training programs for Asia's new breed of football administrator.

Dr Wilkinson estimates the 2018 World Cup could contribute $5.4 billion to the local economy if Football Federation Australia is successful in its bid to host the Cup, which runs for five weeks and is considered the biggest sporting event in the world.

He also says soccer could be the avenue for deepening cultural contacts with the region.

"Encouraging more Asians to travel to Australia (given the rise in Asian overseas travel) necessitates getting Asians to know Australia better," he writes.

"One way to do this could be taking advantage of the surge in popularity of football in Asia ... there appears to be a significant interest in football in China and this could be taken advantage of, to encourage even more Chinese tourists to visit Australia."

Dr Wilkinson credits Rupert Murdoch, chairman of News Corporation, owner of The Australian, with igniting Asia's passion for soccer by beaming in European games via BSkyB and its affiliates since 1989.

The 2002 World Cup, which was co-hosted by South Korea and Japan, was watched by 11.1billion viewers in Asia, compared with 4.1 billion in Europe.

Events NSW research director Rob van den Honert agreed that soccer generally, and the 2018 World Cup in particular, could boost Australia's diplomatic and trade efforts in Asia, comparing the effect with the role played by rugby in trans-Tasman relations.

With the Rudd Government already pledging $32 million for the development of soccer over the next four years, Mr van den Honert agreed that established codes such as Australian football would be "terrified" if the round-ball game received even more public support.

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
In keeping with the thread, frankly I cannot see the point of even having Oceania as a group on its own. Really it's pretty much 3rd world quality. Only Australia were any serious test and now NZ is the lead team - well in theory anyway.
 
Asia could take us and move countries west of Pakistan into either Africa or have a Middle east zone. Is even Pakistan and Asian country? Closer to the african area.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
Is even Pakistan and Asian country? Closer to the african area.


Maybe you need to brush up on your geography just a little
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
at least doing that would make our dollar stronger. and we could introduce australians to real beer!
 
VB > Lion Red
 
And keep NZ out of State of Origin - NSW vs Canetoads, nobody else, end of. The tri-series tournament where NZ was involved is still a good idea, but NZ matches didn't, wouldn't and shouldn't count as State of Origin proper. It's the equivalent of saying South Africa should be able to contest the Bledisloe Cup.
 
/stops hijacking the thread
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mate, that is if we were a state of Aus. Elsewise NZ Rugby league could only be represented as apart of Australia in the WC. Which we can win by ourselves.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Michael wrote:
Mate, that is if we were a state of Aus. Elsewise NZ Rugby league could only be represented as apart of Australia in the WC. Which we can win by ourselves.


I'll PM you to clarify rather than thread hijack further.


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I encourage you all to take a quick look at the Aussie FourFourTwo homepage.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Robb, clear your inbox please.

/End of hijackingMichael2008-12-04 18:22:53
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The most annoying thing about this is that it's taken attention away from things that we need - like a youth team. Not having one is a huge disadvantage - because we don't have any leverage at all. valeo2008-12-04 18:22:49

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
 
Asia could take us and move countries west of Pakistan into either Africa or have a Middle east zone. Is even Pakistan and Asian country? Closer to the african area.
 
Do you mean have different zones within the Asian Confederation? They zone themselves anyway and have often used that as a way of grouping their early World Cup Qualifying rounds.
 
But you mention moving Pakistan to Africa. Putting aside the geographical faux pas, Asia can't tell other Confederations to take countries. (And Africa has enough countries, at 53 the biggest zone, without giving them some of the Asians!)
 
There have been a few postings talking about FIFA splitting Asia, with one half picking up Oceania. I think it's a good idea and it's been around for over a decade - I first mentioned it in 1998 and when I did, I found I wasn't the first to think of it.
 
However, FIFA cannot dictate to AFC that they must split. They don't have the authority. They could suggest it and provide incentives. The AFC have to decide to split and I can't see them doing that. The East Asian countries that would "gain" the Pacific Islands and lose Western Asia would never vote for it. There would have to be a big carrot... like a world cup hosting for each side in 2018 and 2022?
SiNZ2008-12-05 12:54:20
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
The most annoying thing about this is that it's taken attention away from things that we need - like a youth team. Not having one is a huge disadvantage - because we don't have any leverage at all.


Perhaps we should solidify the future of our current team beyond Legs before we get carried away with eweth and chuckies teams aye

(sorry - Friday arvo and my fourth Orange-b... 10pm is a long long way away )

E + R + O

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