brbrookemGooner 4 LifemartinbNoah4thenix+5number8, Simon B, WanderingSheep, WhoStoleMySock, YoungHeartHM
about 1 year ago
Thanks for the photos. Some good memories or display there with captain head band (Brown) and Aloisi on display. The line up of shirts also highlights how boring the home strip has got over the years.
BRING BACK THE YELLOW AND BLACK STRIPY!!!
Supporter of the world's best football teams: Waikato..., Kingz FC, NZ Knights, The Nix, The Argyle & of course the All Whites
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
i haven't seen the full interview yet, but from what i have heard it was said that the transfer income had funded operating costs. this would be an unusual situation and one that is quite dangerous. if it were an operating funding shortfall, it would make sense. in which case the stadium situation is possibly not so immediate.
hence my doubt, in this case. need to see the full interview.
in terms of quick fix, in the scenario where games / events are costing money, there are plenty of available options for limiting losses.
for example, if an event loses brings in $50k, but costs $80k, thus losing $30k per event at sky stadium, and an event brings in $20k, but costs $25k, thus losing $5k at newtown park, and operating costs are unfunded in other areas as well, you'd go with newtown park at a $5k loss.
Basically Dome said the income from those 3 player sales (Surman, Old & AP) was really only helping to plug the gap from the APL disbursement falling to a paltry $530K/year.
Noting that pre Covid in the heady days of the Foxtel TV rights deals, prior to unbundling from Football Australia, the annual club distribution was close to $3.6M! So it's been a massive drop in revenue fore the clubs over the last 6-7 years.
Still I think all 3 player sales had add ons?? So the player transfer income will keep coming from those 3 sales for awhile yet.
The current Paramount deal, expires end of next season. Dome seemed optimstic the APL will have negotiated a much better deal (so higher disbursements for the clubs) by then. Read somewhere all the viewing metrics for the A League are up, and the 2026 WC will have people talking about the value of football, around then.
It was interesting that he basically said that the Nix were in the top 6 spenders.
this alone is an interesting statement. follow up questions that i have would be (some here might know the answers)
1. is this measured, monitored and reportted upon among APL clubs?
2. you say top 6. is this 6th, or top 6?
3. if you were 7th, would you say 'top 7'?
in the 90s, every mall that ever opened in NZ i would say it was the biggest mall in the southern hemisphere.
if the club said 'it's none of your business' that would be 100% cool. but if generic statements are being rolled out to support a narrative, i.e. that the club are doing their bit, some people naturally become interested in the detail behind it.
also, if we're talking player budget, maybe chico made a difference, but otherwise, i cant reconcile that statement.
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
Welnix can always invite more investors onto the Board. MLS clubs seem to have dozens of individual backers.
in terms of quick fix, in the scenario where games / events are costing money, there are plenty of available options for limiting losses.
for example, if an event loses brings in $50k, but costs $80k, thus losing $30k per event at sky stadium, and an event brings in $20k, but costs $25k, thus losing $5k at newtown park, and operating costs are unfunded in other areas as well, you'd go with newtown park at a $5k loss.
Doubt Newtown Park would meet A League standards. If it did what a nightmare for fans to get to.
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
Welnix can always invite more investors onto the Board. MLS clubs seem to have dozens of individual backers.
They tried to get more investors a few years back, dont remember if it was successful or not.
It was interesting that he basically said that the Nix were in the top 6 spenders.
this alone is an interesting statement. follow up questions that i have would be (some here might know the answers)
1. is this measured, monitored and reportted upon among APL clubs?
2. you say top 6. is this 6th, or top 6?
3. if you were 7th, would you say 'top 7'?
in the 90s, every mall that ever opened in NZ i would say it was the biggest mall in the southern hemisphere.
if the club said 'it's none of your business' that would be 100% cool. but if generic statements are being rolled out to support a narrative, i.e. that the club are doing their bit, some people naturally become interested in the detail behind it.
also, if we're talking player budget, maybe chico made a difference, but otherwise, i cant reconcile that statement.
Wonder if it includes having to pay out contracts or is it Chief over valuing some senior players? Or negotiating poorly with injury prone players?
Because I can’t see it on the field for most of the season.
Also if the top four are 5-7 million and then we’re 2.3 million, we might be in the top 6 but we’re still behind the 8 ball.
in terms of quick fix, in the scenario where games / events are costing money, there are plenty of available options for limiting losses.
for example, if an event loses brings in $50k, but costs $80k, thus losing $30k per event at sky stadium, and an event brings in $20k, but costs $25k, thus losing $5k at newtown park, and operating costs are unfunded in other areas as well, you'd go with newtown park at a $5k loss.
Doubt Newtown Park would meet A League standards. If it did what a nightmare for fans to get to.
The playing pitch might be ok, lights would be an issue, even upgraded they are only at training standard for FIFA, the facilities for media, players etc would need a major upgrade, and then you have the stand which would seat 2000 max (?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtown_Park says capacity is 5000, but I'm not sure if thats seated or in total.
in terms of quick fix, in the scenario where games / events are costing money, there are plenty of available options for limiting losses.
for example, if an event loses brings in $50k, but costs $80k, thus losing $30k per event at sky stadium, and an event brings in $20k, but costs $25k, thus losing $5k at newtown park, and operating costs are unfunded in other areas as well, you'd go with newtown park at a $5k loss.
Doubt Newtown Park would meet A League standards. If it did what a nightmare for fans to get to.
It was interesting that he basically said that the Nix were in the top 6 spenders.
this alone is an interesting statement. follow up questions that i have would be (some here might know the answers)
1. is this measured, monitored and reportted upon among APL clubs?
2. you say top 6. is this 6th, or top 6?
3. if you were 7th, would you say 'top 7'?
in the 90s, every mall that ever opened in NZ i would say it was the biggest mall in the southern hemisphere.
if the club said 'it's none of your business' that would be 100% cool. but if generic statements are being rolled out to support a narrative, i.e. that the club are doing their bit, some people naturally become interested in the detail behind it.
also, if we're talking player budget, maybe chico made a difference, but otherwise, i cant reconcile that statement.
Dome didn't say top 6. He just said not the biggest spenders, but also not the lowest.
That's just based on rumours and looking at their squads. The Bakrie Group are known for spending squat on the Roar, and the Jets basically didn't have any visa players until the January window.
But who knows for sure.
I'm presuming Dome gets this club budget intel from attending regular APL meetings. I mean the ALM has a minimum squad spend rule of $2.25M, so presumably the clubs amongst themselves have to be fairly open on what they spend, and provide evidence.
It was interesting that he basically said that the Nix were in the top 6 spenders.
this alone is an interesting statement. follow up questions that i have would be (some here might know the answers)
1. is this measured, monitored and reportted upon among APL clubs?
2. you say top 6. is this 6th, or top 6?
3. if you were 7th, would you say 'top 7'?
in the 90s, every mall that ever opened in NZ i would say it was the biggest mall in the southern hemisphere.
if the club said 'it's none of your business' that would be 100% cool. but if generic statements are being rolled out to support a narrative, i.e. that the club are doing their bit, some people naturally become interested in the detail behind it.
also, if we're talking player budget, maybe chico made a difference, but otherwise, i cant reconcile that statement.
Wonder if it includes having to pay out contracts or is it Chief over valuing some senior players? Or negotiating poorly with injury prone players?
Because I can’t see it on the field for most of the season.
Also if the top four are 5-7 million and then we’re 2.3 million, we might be in the top 6 but we’re still behind the 8 ball.
in most cases paying out contracts would be a fraction of the value of the time remaining on the contract. if the contract paid out were multi year, I don't think they were, it could bring some future costs in to the curret season.
maybe they also built the budget around marco?
if the statement's true, they're being ripped off. if it applies to organisation-wide costs (academy, facilities, event costs, etc), then it does not support the narrative.
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
Welnix can always invite more investors onto the Board. MLS clubs seem to have dozens of individual backers.
They tried to get more investors a few years back, dont remember if it was successful or not.
Auckland are also doing it.
You have Foley plus Mowbray/Williams. But then also minority owners Noah Hickey, Tim Brown, Winston Reid and Steve Adams. Also Foley's mate fellow American rich lister Bennett Rosenthal (part owner of MLS club Los Angeles Football Club (LAFC)), has a stake now in Auckland FC.
Rosenthal is part of the investment group looking to transform Western Springs into AFC's new home.
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
Welnix can always invite more investors onto the Board. MLS clubs seem to have dozens of individual backers.
They tried to get more investors a few years back, dont remember if it was successful or not.
The MLS is remarkable, insofar as it's a sure thing. When it first started many in the US landscape doubted that it could be sustainable. They're surpassed his and while it's nowhere near the scale of the NFL, if you are lucky enough to obtain or invest in a franchise you are basically guaranteed to profit significantly.
The A-League was heading in this direction, but the wheels have fallen off significantly.
However, Foley investing in ACFC would have had a positive effect on the A-League's attractiveness. It re-inforces that these franchises will likely increase in value over the long term.
If investers feel this way, then our current owners will be more inclined to 'maintain the asset' for future gains, and prop up or invest more themselves.
It was interesting that he basically said that the Nix were in the top 6 spenders.
this alone is an interesting statement. follow up questions that i have would be (some here might know the answers)
1. is this measured, monitored and reportted upon among APL clubs?
2. you say top 6. is this 6th, or top 6?
3. if you were 7th, would you say 'top 7'?
in the 90s, every mall that ever opened in NZ i would say it was the biggest mall in the southern hemisphere.
if the club said 'it's none of your business' that would be 100% cool. but if generic statements are being rolled out to support a narrative, i.e. that the club are doing their bit, some people naturally become interested in the detail behind it.
also, if we're talking player budget, maybe chico made a difference, but otherwise, i cant reconcile that statement.
Dome didn't say top 6. He just said not the biggest spenders, but also not the lowest.
That's just based on rumours and looking at their squads. The Bakrie Group are known for spending squat on the Roar, and the Jets basically didn't have any visa players until the January window.
But who knows for sure.
I'm presuming Dome gets this club budget intel from attending regular APL meetings. I mean the ALM has a minimum squad spend rule of $2.25M, so presumably the clubs amongst themselves have to be fairly open on what they spend, and provide evidence.
If I misheard, apologies (through gritted teeth!), but as MartinB said even if the Nix are in the top 6 spenders they could still be a long way behind the likes of monied AFC & SFC.
See them with a cluster of similar, middle of the range type clubs. Median verus Mean.
And as Dome pointed out the club don't just spend on the ALM first team squad. Macarthur for example don't even have a ALW side yet. And the Nix's academy is one of the better ones.
Though you feel Auckland are about to go bigger on off field infrastructure spurging, than any other A League club previously in the history of the league.
in terms of quick fix, in the scenario where games / events are costing money, there are plenty of available options for limiting losses.
for example, if an event loses brings in $50k, but costs $80k, thus losing $30k per event at sky stadium, and an event brings in $20k, but costs $25k, thus losing $5k at newtown park, and operating costs are unfunded in other areas as well, you'd go with newtown park at a $5k loss.
Doubt Newtown Park would meet A League standards. If it did what a nightmare for fans to get to.
The playing pitch might be ok, lights would be an issue, even upgraded they are only at training standard for FIFA, the facilities for media, players etc would need a major upgrade, and then you have the stand which would seat 2000 max (?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtown_Park says capacity is 5000, but I'm not sure if thats seated or in total.
I was there for a Welly Utd game on the weekend - it would have to be in total, and even then it’s hard to picture a crowd of 5000 even with the grassy banks filled.
It wasn’t too bad getting there by bus (although the bus to the RoF afterwards was sufficiently delayed that I got there just in time to miss Piper’s goal). But that was without thousands of other fans wanting to go to the same place, and from what I saw car parking is minimal at best.
I don’t know how other regional grounds stack up, but if the Nix couldn’t afford Sky Stadium would Newtown Park be the next best thing? Better than joining the Wahinix out in Porirua?
in terms of quick fix, in the scenario where games / events are costing money, there are plenty of available options for limiting losses.
for example, if an event loses brings in $50k, but costs $80k, thus losing $30k per event at sky stadium, and an event brings in $20k, but costs $25k, thus losing $5k at newtown park, and operating costs are unfunded in other areas as well, you'd go with newtown park at a $5k loss.
Doubt Newtown Park would meet A League standards. If it did what a nightmare for fans to get to.
The playing pitch might be ok, lights would be an issue, even upgraded they are only at training standard for FIFA, the facilities for media, players etc would need a major upgrade, and then you have the stand which would seat 2000 max (?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtown_Park says capacity is 5000, but I'm not sure if thats seated or in total.
I was there for a Welly Utd game on the weekend - it would have to be in total, and even then it’s hard to picture a crowd of 5000 even with the grassy banks filled.
It wasn’t too bad getting there by bus (although the bus to the RoF afterwards was sufficiently delayed that I got there just in time to miss Piper’s goal). But that was without thousands of other fans wanting to go to the same place, and from what I saw car parking is minimal at best.
I don’t know how other regional grounds stack up, but if the Nix couldn’t afford Sky Stadium would Newtown Park be the next best thing? Better than joining the Wahinix out in Porirua?
If we could develop JC and do a deal with Metlink to use the station car park and have a proper park and ride, we’d be laughing. But JC would have to forego some of the other land so we could sneak 10k in there.
in terms of quick fix, in the scenario where games / events are costing money, there are plenty of available options for limiting losses.
for example, if an event loses brings in $50k, but costs $80k, thus losing $30k per event at sky stadium, and an event brings in $20k, but costs $25k, thus losing $5k at newtown park, and operating costs are unfunded in other areas as well, you'd go with newtown park at a $5k loss.
Doubt Newtown Park would meet A League standards. If it did what a nightmare for fans to get to.
The playing pitch might be ok, lights would be an issue, even upgraded they are only at training standard for FIFA, the facilities for media, players etc would need a major upgrade, and then you have the stand which would seat 2000 max (?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtown_Park says capacity is 5000, but I'm not sure if thats seated or in total.
I was there for a Welly Utd game on the weekend - it would have to be in total, and even then it’s hard to picture a crowd of 5000 even with the grassy banks filled.
It wasn’t too bad getting there by bus (although the bus to the RoF afterwards was sufficiently delayed that I got there just in time to miss Piper’s goal). But that was without thousands of other fans wanting to go to the same place, and from what I saw car parking is minimal at best.
I don’t know how other regional grounds stack up, but if the Nix couldn’t afford Sky Stadium would Newtown Park be the next best thing? Better than joining the Wahinix out in Porirua?
If we could develop JC and do a deal with Metlink to use the station car park and have a proper park and ride, we’d be laughing. But JC would have to forego some of the other land so we could sneak 10k in there.
Cant agree it would be a nightmare trying to get 10k in and out of there. Also cant see the locals wanting Jerry Collins Stadium being turned into a football ground. Even years after he has been gone the mention of his name evokes great pride in Porirua.
The games at the Hutt rec were great, con the HCC into developing it into a football ground with a little 10k seat stadium 😂 Of course even the suggestion of this will rally the rugby crowd to start a petition like they did when Morgan said they wanted the petone rec
The games at the Hutt rec were great, con the HCC into developing it into a football ground with a little 10k seat stadium 😂 Of course even the suggestion of this will rally the rugby crowd to start a petition like they did when Morgan said they wanted the petone rec
That would be great but the HCC in all their wisdom decided to spend money on preparing a 1st class cricket pitch. That attracts buggar all people and probably little money into the Hutt. Just dont get why they would turn down the chance to have thousands visiting and potentially spending money locally. Then again the Nimbys probably would shut it down anyway. If we could find a billionaire (step up Peter Jackson or James Cameron) Fraser Park could also be turned into something cool.
If any park in the Hutt was going to be developed by a billionaire I’d actually say Hutt park it’s already a football pitch so the rugby and cricket guys can’t complain, it wouldn’t be hard to reinstate rail to it as the tracks are still there, it’s not super close to housing (I live down the road and you didn’t really notice the noise from the juicy fest concert) it’s close to bus lines and easy to get to if driving…… just need a few billion Also the petone rec grandstand is…… well a death trap but the rugby community is fighting for it to be saved led by Lower Hutt’s deputy mayor, but maybe now’s the time to float a stadium there again with our non-existent billionaire benefactor
The games at the Hutt rec were great, con the HCC into developing it into a football ground with a little 10k seat stadium 😂 Of course even the suggestion of this will rally the rugby crowd to start a petition like they did when Morgan said they wanted the petone rec
That would be great but the HCC in all their wisdom decided to spend money on preparing a 1st class cricket pitch. That attracts buggar all people and probably little money into the Hutt. Just dont get why they would turn down the chance to have thousands visiting and potentially spending money locally. Then again the Nimbys probably would shut it down anyway. If we could find a billionaire (step up Peter Jackson or James Cameron) Fraser Park could also be turned into something cool.
They ARE NIMBYs 😂 well and truly.
Just on the JC point, I know it’s a pipe dream, but it wouldn’t just be a footballer stadium? I’d fully expect the lions to be there and whatever else plays there currently. A JV for the stadium would make so much sense, spread the costs. They’d probably need to have a TMP in place with diversions to allow for people / buses pre and post games. Happens elsewhere, no reason why it couldn’t work with some proper planning.
It was interesting that he basically said that the Nix were in the top 6 spenders.
this alone is an interesting statement. follow up questions that i have would be (some here might know the answers)
1. is this measured, monitored and reportted upon among APL clubs?
2. you say top 6. is this 6th, or top 6?
3. if you were 7th, would you say 'top 7'?
in the 90s, every mall that ever opened in NZ i would say it was the biggest mall in the southern hemisphere.
if the club said 'it's none of your business' that would be 100% cool. but if generic statements are being rolled out to support a narrative, i.e. that the club are doing their bit, some people naturally become interested in the detail behind it.
also, if we're talking player budget, maybe chico made a difference, but otherwise, i cant reconcile that statement.
Dome didn't say top 6. He just said not the biggest spenders, but also not the lowest.
That's just based on rumours and looking at their squads. The Bakrie Group are known for spending squat on the Roar, and the Jets basically didn't have any visa players until the January window.
But who knows for sure.
I'm presuming Dome gets this club budget intel from attending regular APL meetings. I mean the ALM has a minimum squad spend rule of $2.25M, so presumably the clubs amongst themselves have to be fairly open on what they spend, and provide evidence.
As I said Dome didn't state the Nix were a top 6 spender. AV alludes to they highly likely ain't in the top 5. Nix could be anywhere 6th to 10th, but that grouping could all be pretty similar.
There is no publicly available information as to what A-Leagues clubs spend on player salaries, but Auckland are widely considered to have joined the two Melbourne clubs – Melbourne City and Melbourne Victory – and the two Sydney clubs – Sydney FC and Western Sydney Wanderers – as the competition’s biggest spenders, on their way to sitting at the top of the ladder with three rounds to play in the regular season.
Wellington Phoenix general manager David Dome meanwhile told Stuff as recently as last Saturday, while discussing their failure to make the playoffs this season, after coming second and losing in the semifinals last season: “We still are one of the better spenders in the league. We’re not the smallest and we’re not the largest.
“Within that context, that’s why it’s disappointing that we’re outside the (top) six, because we absolutely should be in the six, given the investment we make in the team.”
It's all semantics. But you've stated, Dome stated the Nix are a definite top 6 spender. He hasn't said that. More they yes are not the biggest, nor the lowest. They highly likely ain't a top 5 spender. After the "big 5" there probably is a reasonable drop off to the next cohort of club spenders.
And yeah the club are disappointed they are not going to be in the top six.
That disappointment could be as much a function of them making the top six, 5 of the last 6 seasons (going back to Rudan), prior this season. The fact they finished 2nd last season. The fact that with their well respected Academy they feel they have an edge on some of the other (even bigger spending) clubs. Same with their access to the worldclass NZCIS facility. The fact that until this season they basically had a monopoly on NZ's best young talent
Dome also knows the fans want to hear the club are disappointed not to be in the playoffs. He ain't stupid.
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
Welnix can always invite more investors onto the Board. MLS clubs seem to have dozens of individual backers.
They tried to get more investors a few years back, dont remember if it was successful or not.
I'm still annoyed that Tim Brown invested in Auckland
