Darije Kalezić: We hardly knew ye.

I'd keep Ridenton and Rufer - both are young NZ midfielders and have had good moments this year.

Durante and McGlinchey - but only on a heavily reduced wage.

Paracki - with better players in the team, I think he could be the player he promised at the start.

Either way: Mullen / Galloway

Unfortunately with both McGarry and Rogerson I have no idea as they have been given next to nothing in terms of minutes to really judge them.

Ridenton 

Mac on a heavily reduced wage

The rest can go

Sorry was only listing the players to show which ones where off contract and the new coach hopefully gets to choose who to keep. Please keep this thread about coaching and take player talk to here

https://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/wellington-phoenix-discussion/topics/contracted-players-now-with-added-ginger-calm-yerself-j?page=230#post_1230519

Just some forum spit-balling

Now to get Ifill back as Greenacre's Assistant and the Iffy-Diddy-Greenie sandwich is back on!!!

If we make the top six but try to get rid of Darije we'd be up theoretically for constructive dismissal, even if he said he was not coming back next season. Basically we'd be keeping him on just in case of Greenie having a massive finals run. 

I am not sure I can cope with any kind of conjecture much longer. 

So the overwhelming opinion on how this is at the moment - courtesy of various newspaper articles and social media quotes from people in and around the club.

- The club want Darije to go.

- The club have in his deal that if they don't make the six he can get the archer

- Darije wants to be paid.  If they don't make the six he will be paid the next 6 weeks and chopped (assumption).

- The club have been trying to work out a deal to get him out right away but he went public while they were talking.

- If they make the six Darije would be entitled to a larger severance package as his contract does not end at the end of the season in that circumstance.

- Darije is being stubborn and holding out to be paid more than the next 6 weeks of pay based on the fact a miracle would mean he has a deal for next season.

- The club are betting we won't top six.

- Darije has been told not to turn up at work and can pack as soon as the 6th is mathematically out of reach.

- The players are likely to be celebrating at this last point.

I think that's it.  Conjecture but if you troll through all the comment has reasonable standing. Would pass a politifact audit.

Day thread summary part 2.

Sourced from Facebook groups but also supported by some investigation (not be counted as confirmed fact in anyway).  

It has been suggested that Ramon's coaching certificates may not be enough to qualify him as a water bottle runner for the Phoenix let alone head coach.

Please do not shoot the messenger.  I'm just summarizing.

Fact - Remon is booked in to do his Licence as the winter/Euro summer back in Europe as soon as the ACFC season is finished, I think June was mentioned. If he passes (given the homework he does in all aspects of the game normally) he will be certified to coach the Nix or the All Whites by August.

Opinion- Which also makes you scratch you head as to why NZF couldn’t see him as an option for the AW role. I think basically Andrei or whatever his name is simply didn’t want him and used the pro licence as a way to rule him out and get his co worker in.

I've heard rumours along the lines of what is mentioned in this thread out of Auckland and they explain why he was not considered for the AWs role and I am surprised to read articles saying the Phoenix are considering him based on the A-Leagues coaching requirements.

I see where you're going with this. Should the club miraculously be 7th with a game in hand that'd take them into 6th, would Greenie be asked to throw it in order to avoid the payout to DK? 

I guess one would have to ask if the payout for getting into 6th would be enough to compensate DK.

Who cares - top 6!! & still fighting

COYN!!

Some Questions re Ramon:

Is the pro License requirement a new thing? I vaguely recall the requirement being UEFA A but could be wrong.

How Long has it been the requirement?

Why has a "part time" coach who clearly has Pro Aspirations not progressed this further given it is at least 4 years since he first looked at the Nix job and has been turned down for others in the interim?

Have NZF tried to help the most successful domestic coach advance his qualifications? Have Auckland City? If not why not?

Has he tried sitting it before and missed out?

I would like to see Ramon involved, but for me, far too much of a risk to take someone on on the hope that they gain the right license that they are due (apparently) to sit in June.  It would be a disaster to end up having to start another worldwide search for a coach in June.

3 month pro licence? Sceptical. Usually 12 at least isn't it?

Edit: His linked in page says he got his UEFA A from acadef. If he is using them again, they claim they have a UEFA Pro equivalent course that is run over 2(!) months. Guess there is still a question of whether UEFA/FIFA/FFA/others recognise it as equivalent. 

http://acadefinternacional.com/wp-content/uploads/...

I can help with the first two. 

I think the pro licence requirement came in before the 2015/16 season. Just to add to the mix, it only applies for foreign (non-Australian) coaches. Australians only need the A Licence. But the pro licence for foreigners also applies for those wanting to be an assistant. 

Page 78-80 outlines this https://www.ffa.com.au/sites/ffa/files/2017-09/FFA...

So it seems he has had 2 seasons to get the correct Licence in order to progress further with his career - At least at A-League level.

Also take into account he missed the all whites job last time to Hudson as well, so missing both the Nix and All Whites jobs you think he would have looked at improving his qualifications earlier than this year so if a job opened up he had a chance at it. 

From what I've read it takes 18 months to do the UEFA Pro license, so if it's the final exam he's sitting in May he's potentially been doing it for a while.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/6189330.s...

Information on the qualification. Designed at a year can be spread over 18 months

What coaching badges does Greenie have? Assume he wouldn't be qualified to be a head coach in the A-League at this stage, apart from taking the Nix for a few weeks as interim. 

ACADEF offer the “UEFA pro equivalent” as a 2 month block course. I wonder if that’s what he’s planning on doing. The question is whether that’s actually recognised by UEFA or valid anywhere outside of Spain - I’m skeptical. He always seems to be just a few months away from completing the qualification when he misses out on these jobs doesn’t he?

If pass rates are so low maybe he's failed it a couple of times.

If that hypothetical is true, it’s probably not a great bet for the nix to hire him and hope he doesn’t fail again. 

so reading the above if Ramon is working on the course after local league finishes and is expecting to graduate in August is in likely that the nix would risk hiring before he passes? NO! We have to get a coach in well before the new season starts. The new coach must have enough time to scope out the current players, decide who he wants to keep and change out of the off contract players. Assuming Ramon passes the course he is not going to do all this before the actual season kicks off and we will be poked again!

So Kalezic came in, we signed some good players, he f*cked everyone off and we let go of some good talent, now he's gone without getting to rebuild the squad - is this anything less than an absolute clusterf*ck?

My 2c  - The people best placed to know the details of his coaching badges are Ramon and any potential employers he has applied to.  If he was likely to finish it in May as first reported (now people are saying August) you'd have thought he have at least got a look in at the AWs gig (there wasn't a huge rush on that appointment given the time of the WC cycle) - yet he didn't. Similar seems to have happened with previous tilts at AL jobs as well.

Seems to me like there is something to all this that isn't as simple as "he has his A and will have his Pro very soon". I don't think it's a huge leap to put some credibility in these claims either his acadef qual isn't up to snuff (2 month course seems a bit off) or he has failed his attempts at the pro a few times and that's got employers jumpy.

I doubt they have even thought about it.

Or if you actually look at the acadef website you see the level 3 course which allows you to coach at an national and international level requires 600 hours theoretical, 200 hours practical training and 75 hours for the final project (bit more than 2 months) and he's working towards it (you obviously don't get it over night)

If there was an issue with his licence he wouldn't have got through the door for his previous interviews with A-League teams

There are 2 issues one is that he is currently in an amateur league and alot of people can't get past that and also I think he has been wanting to be the head coach, whereas he could have got into an A-League club if he'd been willing to take an assistant's role and work his way up (which is what he did at ACFC) 

It actually offers it as a 2 month course. With a disclaimer underneath saying it’s a 2 month course of the Spanish education ministry waive the practice hours. Which seems weird.

It’s also “UEFA equivalent” which begs the question of whether it’s actually recognised by UEFA. The court ruling posted earlier seems to suggest it has to be treated the same as a UEFA qualification within Spain. If they had to go to court to get that ruling, it makes me think it’s probably not UEFA certified - which by extension probably means Asia, the A league or NZF wouldn’t accept the qualification either. 

It’s a shame if this is the case, because he’s definitely high up on my (realistic) preference list for the nix job. 

I must be looking at the wrong part of the website as I can't see anything about that

He does have his UEFA A-Licence and an Oceania B-Licence, and a pretty reasonable record but all this seems to have gone out the window and he's gone from being a contender to some one who has failed (several times) a licence qualification from a dodgy provider!!!

But all this digresses from the point it doesn't really matter what licences he does or doesn't have Welnix are unlikely to offer him the job so lets start talking about who other possible options are

Forgetting the validity of the Spanish accreditation for the moment, some people are talking about a pass/fail for this qualification but it looks more to me like a course that has a wide range of components to it [theory, practicum, residential etc and is more akin to the old coaching level 2 type process than an University Degree exam at the end of a years study. "Failures" if you want to call them that are most likely to those that pull out rather than fail some final test. I'm also presuming that these type of courses are designed predominantly to upskill people not to pass or fail them. Does that make sense?

If the Nix can find a new coach in the next few weeks (before the season ends), would Greenie pass over the reigns and assist the new guy till we've played our last game? 

Sounds sensible, since Greenie is not qualified to be our permanent first team coach.

It's looking at the website that gives me more pause than I would have had otherwise. They talk about how "it is NOT necessary to ask for any of the UEFA licenses that the RFEF gives" for their "UEFA equivalent" badges which implies to me these courses are not recognised by the national body and are not actual UEFA badges? I may be wrong but that seems the implication to me - also there is translation at play muddying the water even more. Even having a section of the website to explain the "validity" of your qual feels strange. 

Published legal decisions regarding this make it a lengthy/confusing read so I'm not going to pretend to know the situation especially given I'm sure there are a lot of Spanish politics at play that I'm not aware of but if they aren't recognised by the national body as a UEFA badge it would seem hard to recognise them in an entirely different confed. They can say it's not necessary but that doesn't ring true given this is a standardised thing.

I'm not saying any of this is fact but a little bit of digging seems to give more rather than less cred to this random claim someone threw out there. And to your question of not getting in the door isn't that precisely what happened for the AWs job? Similarly foreign assistant AL coaches require a pro licence too.

We can speculate all we like but as I said Ramon and employers are the ones most in the know on this and they are the ones not shortlisting him due to not having the required badges. 

Personally I'd love Ramon to be in the mix but this feels like a good explanation of why he hasn't been given a shot yet and doesn't seem to be getting a look in for one either. It's the first reason I've seen that makes any sense to me.

Any Yellow Fever members got their relevant licenses?

Reading some of the matchday threads you'd be forgiven for thinking that there are plenty of people who think they could do a better job at the helm!