Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

Rob Morrison just on with Piney on ZB.

Ricki will not be sacked there will be a review at the end of the season, and it will then be decided whether there is a new coach and ricki moves on to another position in the club.

Still the aim to get to the finals this year.

Sounds like there will be a lot of player movement at the end of the season, as they will certainly going to the transfer market, seemed to make a point of this.

Acknowledged the support of YF and support of the hard core supporters.

Thats what I heard others may have heard more.

Ricki should go completely. The team have no direction at all, so why on earth do we need him as 'director of football'? Has this arrangement ever worked in world football?

Because there is such thing as a golden parachute, and also because we'd lose him as an All Whites coach (financially, not formally) if he was left jobless at the 'Nix. Ricki's salary with the All Whites was the lowest of all coaches at the 2010 WC, as was widely reported in serious media (BBC etc) at the time.

mainland, you're probably right that this is the case, but it is completely ridiculous nonetheless

he should be judged by each entity on his performances with each entity and he definitely deserves to be fired by the nix

come to think of it, after missing out on the confederations cup, maybe he needs to be removed from both jobs

Lets hope the Nix don't become an old boys club like NZ Football appears to be!

Hard to believe such intelligent owners just don't get it (after listening to the Morrison thing)  . Herbert has nothing left to offer the Phoenix. Can understand retaining him till end of season. But to retain him in some other role just because they don't want to pay him out, will be a disaster. There are lots of well connected football people on this site, and no matter where you go in football, they will tell you the same thing. That Herbert is out of his depth in the A league. That he has run out of ideas and has lost the players. Mark Elrich said on national radio that the players are unhappy. Many of those unhappy players will still be at the Phoenix next year. 

When you think about how thin the rest of the Nix back-room staff is I think we'd be crazy to let Ricki go completely. Even if he is not head coach he still has a wealth of A-League knowledge/experience that could be usefully deployed in a DoF/GM type of role. If you had Ricki working in a DoF role taking care of scouting, recruitment (players and technical staff), oversight and management of the Academy, organisation of off-season tours etc - basically a lot of stuff that either Ricki and David Dome probably have to do - then that takes a hell of a lot of pressure off a) the new head coach, who can then focus fully on the first team, and b) the GM, who could then focus more on other areas that need attention like marketing.

The only problems are that this is an additional role that needs to be funded, and whether Ricki actually wants a role like that.

Ricki in charge of scouting and recruitment?! Give me strength...

The point being that someone would be doing it as part of a full-time role, instead of the completely half-arsed job we do of it now. Of course recruitment would still heavily involve the head coach, but I'm talking about doing all the leg work, dealing with agents, getting things to a point where the head coach can look at a short-list of already-vetted players suitable for a role. The kind of thing that Ricki has probably never had the benefit of.

OK, so take Ricki out of the organisation and show me where we have any real experience at all of running an A-League franchise, including amongst the ownership. Basically, there isn't any, and I'm to sure that's a place we're ready to go.

I just don't think a discussion about Ricki's future should be as polarised and, dare I say, unsophisticated as "he either stays as total over-lord" or "he must be banished forever". There are a lot of different options that could be considered.

I also think you are failing to distinguish clearly enough between trying to do recruitment, for example, as a head coach with very little time and support (as Ricki has mostly had to do) and contributing to recruitment as a DoF supporting a head coach. They are two completely different scenarios.

The man has been with the Phoenix from day one, and nobody knows the Phoenix and the A-League better than him. Yes, it seems clear he has reached the natural conclusion of his head coaching duties, but can we really afford to biff all that knowledge and experience completely?

Anyone know what percentage of Ricki's income is from the Nix job and what is from the AWs job? I assume the AWs would at least pay enough to live comfortably, albeit not in Serepisos-style extravagance.

Cos here's a left-field idea: all the talk about why Ricki isn't going is focusing on the costs - paying him out of his contract with the club which is for 2 more years. What if Ricki was willing to accept a cut-and-run deal on his contract? Say, pay out a quarter of the remainder and let him leave the club now to focus on the All Whites. Because the way the Phoenix are going is only damaging his reputation and hence his chances of future employment anyway, and I think that he's acheived all he can with the Phoenix anyway. After all these seasons with the same core group of players his ideas and motivational approach are played out. He's not Alex Ferguson and we haven't been winning titles for years. We have been a mid-table side consistently and this season with potentially the best chance to improve on that we're bottom of the barrel. Ricki's done what he could in this environment and it hasn't worked. 2 more years is not going to change that.

2 season's lost income, or a bit less than that, can be made up later if he get's a good gig somewhere else in the world. But he's not going to get that gig if he has 2 more dismal seasons with the Nix. However, regardless of how the AWs go with him in charge for the next few years he can point to his success at the 2010 WC as proof of his ability in that role. So leaving the club now might actually be better for Ricki in the longrun anyway! 

I know this is a pipedream and Ricki doesn't seem like the type to walk away from a challenge, but I'm just thinking of ways around the issues at hand. Someone needs to convince Ricki that it's in his best interests to leave the club at the end of this season. Because I think the number of people who think it's in the club's best interest for him to go is getting bigger and bigger. And that possibly includes players and other staff at the club too.

I would like to add to my previous post and just say that - at present - Ricki appears to be the most experienced in terms of football (apart from playing on the field), therefore getting rid of him completely would not be conducive to The 'Nix recovery if only one new person (a replacement coach) is employed. Additional, experienced support staff is important. We seem to be doing worse with no Luca Triani but with Greenie instead, which is the main difference in the coaching backroom this season.  A good head coach is of course crucial.

Consider the Western Sydney Wanderers who have a newbie coach (Tony Popovic) and are successful on the park. Tony spent many years playing football in Australia (Sydney United in the nineties, and then only with Sydney FC in the 2007-8 season), but crucially played also for many years in Japan (Sanfrecce), England (Crystal Palace) and finally in the Middle East. That means a well-rounded football experience. As the style of football in HAL changes to a more skill-based one, Popovic seems to have arrived as a "young" (he's 40) coach at the right time.

Now contrast that with Ricki Herbert, who simply did not have the opportunities to play abroad that the younger players now have. He may be a good coach in many ways, but had no real exposure to continental European football which coaching in HAL increasingly requires, with decreasing percentage of hoofball and higher percentage of ground passing. If there was additional experienced coaching personnel that Ricki would rely on or listen to, it may have worked; but it is just too early for Greenacre to be that kind of a person, despite his other good qualities (importance high workrate, etc).

He may be expensive, but the Australian professional coach of Argentine origin, Raul Blanco, could be a man to consider as an additional coaching staff member (he was already involved with the All Whites earlier). Instead of sacking Ricki, giving him a support staff may be an answer. 

The figures being bandied about a couple of years ago were that Ricki was on about $200-250k and then NZF paid the Nix about $50k for his time with the AWs.

I'm sure that's the kind of discussion that's going on right now BZ.

Ricki probably does want to increase his time with the AWs over the next two years, but NZF also can't afford to give him a full time position (or anybody else for that matter). That's why this job-sharing deal has always appealed so much. So maybe the split becomes something more like 50/50. That would mean NZF only need to find another $50k and the Nix would have a part-time DoF and some money freed up to get another head-coach. Ricki still has a job(s). Good outcome for everyone.

I think I've worked out Welnix's grand plan. It's fiendishly cunning.

They are cultivating all this angst to try and build up a new angsty/mopey/goth/emo teenage fanbase, who will have heaps of (their parents') disposable income. Depressed teenagers will like the fact that football isn't rugby so they will be "rebelling" against New Zealand's society as well. In a few years, once the Phoenix fad has passed and the next wave of kids are into something else, then Welnix will have heaps of cash from it to build a successful, non-angsty football club.

We should all angst more to help the owners out.

Yeah you're right.

Am sure NZF will give Herbert an option fulltime to make sure his knowledge isn't lost, but that really is a NZ Football problem. The Phoenix club owe it to themselves and the fans to bring in the best Australasian/foreign replacement they can get (and afford). His replacement isn't in NZ. The Warriors have tried that in their comp. Two grand final appearances with Oz coaches - nowhere near the GF with Kiwi coaches.

I love the occasional comparisons with the Warriors and the Breakers that come up.

Let's not forget that the Warriors did not even reach the finals until their seventh season and only once finished in the top half of the comp prior to that. They have still never won the comp in 18 years. The Breakers didn't make the play-offs until their 5th season, and were pretty awful prior to that. Even if we finish last this year the Phoenix have still been more successful than either of those teams at the same point in their history.

I agree that Ricki's replacement probably isn't in NZ though.

Off the back of swirling rumours about Ian Ferguson's future at Perth, just let me categorically state here and now that if the Phoenix pick him up as coach for next season my loyalty to the club will be seriously undermined.

Agreed

The last thing we need is a big fat useless ex hun in charge ,I'd rather have Hekia Parata or Buzz light year !!

Ferguson along with other ex Hun Stuart Munro have  between them  managed Perth's decline since they  took over from Dave Mitchell  ! 

Ferguson played in Scottish league only (albeit under some good coaches, intermittently, like Dick Advocaat and Leo Benhaaker). Once he moved to Australia he really only absorbed Lawrie McKinna style of coaching (first at Northern Spirit, and afterwards at the Mariners). This style is effective with certain teams only (those with little flair but a lot of grit). Hence my argument still stands, that HAL is no longer reflecting the "direct & effective" old-UK style of football, but that is finally maturing with more continental and Latin influence, also now prevalent in Japan and South Korea. Ferguson could not get NQ Fury to succeed in A-League even with Robbie Fowler on the park, but let's not forget he took Perth Glory all the way to Grand Final last season. Give credit where due.

I forgot Perth made the finals last year. Funny how both finalists are cellar dwellers this year.

I found a screenshot of the A-League table as of the 4th Feb 2012 on my phone. If you replace GCU with WSW, leave CCM where they are and flip the rest of the table, you very nearly have this years table.

Teams have gone from Champions one season, to cellar dwellers the next. The competition really is quite even. Only team not to suffer both highs & lows, has been CCM.

They have heard our calls and they are coming. Ladies and Gentlemen I present to you, Journey LIVE in New Zealand. http://www.ticketmaster.co.nz/Deep-Purple-Journey-tickets/artist/734897?tm_link=edp_Artist_Name
#don'tstopbelievin'

Read the following post on a football thread in Australia.... made me wonder how committed are the owners to support the club ...

The post that made think  ... """"Im getting really worried about Welly. I think they are just entering the death spiral. It's not too late to put things right, but they desperately need start to get their act together""""" 

What was the source of this, because I think you have taken it out of context. Where do you get your take on the statement, to me its just some probable throw away line someone has said. I certainly doesn't indicate that Welnix are not committed to keeping it going ??????

Yeah fair comment. I guess my point is there is an existing template emerging from NZ sides competing in Oz comps. And yes, Herbert's replacement cannot be from here.   

let's hire Poppa! and sign Ono and Hersi and NTS....

Midfielder, you take one throw away comment someone makes on a forum and present it as a worrying sign that we may be going under. 

Do you or have you ever worked for the doom post?

Should be neither. Get the CEO/GM to communicate or get a media manager