Wellington Phoenix Men

we need a goalscorer

319 replies · 3,935 views
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
Tegal wrote:
There is no evidence that they have tightened any purse strings though. Or have I missed something


The evidence is that Ricki had contracts in front of three Euro strikers, and Welnix told him to pull the plug.
No, that's a statement, not evidence.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TopLeft07 wrote:
Has to be room. Three of our 20 are youth players and how many players have we signed have been at a loose end? Those guys aren't earning lots.
 
Exactly.
 
Why is it that it now appears he does NOT have the entire salary cap to work with?
 
We've barely heard a peep from the new owners since day 1, bar about 1 article in the Dom Post from Morgan talking about big plans...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:

TopLeft07 wrote:
Has to be room. Three of our 20 are youth players and how many players have we signed have been at a loose end? Those guys aren't earning lots.

�
Exactly.
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Why is it that it now appears he does NOT have the entire salary cap to work with?
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We've barely heard a peep from the new owners since day 1, bar about 1 article in the Dom Post from Morgan talking about big plans...


dont think thats fair considering they did an open members forum

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
so if we ( wellnix ) want to sign a new player does it have to go through all the owners first ? or can just one of them say yes and it's done and dusted

I LOVE LAMP

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
...or a Shooting Stars one?

Amusing that it's Term who is generally a (somewhat rabid) voice of reason being slammed.
lol my "slam" was in the plural - Term just happened to be the last poster on the theme
 
meh
 
OK we lost a couple of games we should arguably have won
OK it would be nice to have a star striker
 
but we have played well in both games
+ we have indications Welnix is planning with Ricki a decent signing post Xmas
+ if the boyos hadn't gone berserk with cards we would have a second striking option up there with greeny
we've got midfielders to burn as soon as ifill is back
if we are planning a big striker signing post xmas and we get Pav back we are pretty loaded there
if there is anywhere that we probably do need cover its at FB
 
I suspect Ricki has agreed with Welnix it is better to get a strong frontman signing in the next window and maybe the targets he had in mind on a TS restricted budget don't match up to marquee
and as a consequence I suspect Ricki is frustrated that his current players are doing everything well
except butcher good chances
and getting themselves suspended from games, every game
 
but slinging mud at the new owners right now just seems to me to be petulant
 
no great offence meant, but blaming the guys that have rescued the club seems mighty uncivil to me
just giving a few a hard blast of their own medicine
 
as you were, rant over
 
mjp22011-11-01 08:38:25
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
Tegal wrote:
There is no evidence that they have tightened any purse strings though. Or have I missed something


The evidence is that Ricki had contracts in front of three Euro strikers, and Welnix told him to pull the plug.
No, that's a statement, not evidence.
A true statement though.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
chefmivec wrote:
so if we ( wellnix ) want to sign a new player does it have to go through all the owners first ? or can just one of them say yes and it's done and dusted
Nathan has final say.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
this all seems to be assuming there is a top goal scoring talent all ready to come to us? otherwise the debate as to whether the funding is there or not is pretty academic. Herbert saying he had 3 contracts in front of strikers does not mean 3 were willing to come.

we'll beat CCM, im glad we're playing well enough to have all this angst, rather than apathy after getting spanked 4 times and thinking that we can just write off the season due to lack of squad.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I recall reading something somewhere, where one of them (RM?) said the timing was wrong for signing a big player at the start of the season because it would lose exposure / marketing opportunites etc due to the RWC etc + short build up to the season (for them). Anyone else see that?
This would fit in with the theory that they're going to sign Killen or someone in January and make a big pitch out of it. Which would be a scenario I could live with (assuming the current squad keep picking up points until then).
Losing Pantellis was also a big blow I reckon. Did that (+ Pav) happen before or after they pulled the pin on the Euro options?
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Before
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
OK, let me explain this carefully for those of you who seem incapable of dealing with anything other than a simple "Welnix good/Welnix bad" assessment rubric.
 
I'm very happy with the Welnix as owners and the financial security that they bring. However, given that financial security is an absolute non-negotiable pre-condition for ownership (and in this case the only compelling driver for a change in ownership at all) I think it is fair to ask "what else?" or "what kind of owners will Welnix be?".
 
There is also absolutely no doubt that many of the criticisms that Terry faced over the last year were about more than just baseline financial viability. They were also about what kind of squad was being assembled, our ability to challenge for the play-offs and the strength of the backroom operation. I think that some of you are not being consistent around this and that this betrays the fact that you have other issues with Terry that are not actually relevant to his ownership of the Nix.
 
It is not just the lack of new player signings that is worth questioning but the lack of progress on other well documented issues at the club. For instance, how else are we meant to interpret this statement by Mark Paston about the lack of a goal-keeping coach:
 
Dom Post on Friday wrote:
Team Wellington's Mark Oates helps out on a part-time basis and Paston stated the obvious by saying "it's not an ideal situation".
 
He made a plea to the new Welnix ownership group to open their wallets. "Obviously everyone realises the club has gone through a pretty tough patch ... but hopefully the new owners will get someone on board."
 
The lack of a goal-keeping coach was used time and time again as a stick to beat Terry with but it's hardly been mentioned since Welnix took over.
 
Look, I'm not trying to bag on Welnix too much but they admitted when they took over that they are not football experts. I am a football expert so I am merely offering them the benefit of my expertise for free. That's all.
 

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We have been playing really well this season, so far, with Greenacre and Sanchez being a big part of that. I don't know how we would incorporate a new striker without dropping one of those two and expect the same level of performance as a team.

In regards to Welnix, let the dust settle, let them get the lie of the land, let them work out how they want to achieve their goals.Bullion2011-11-01 11:21:20
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Like a lot of football fans I have my good days and bad days, make deciosions on how well i think that the players have played, thought I  could pick a better team and play a better formation than Ricki  and generally done the whole 'oh god were doomed' and 'what if they move us to auckland bit'
I will say that this season despite all the preseason angst and the lack of a decent recruiting drive due to forces beyond Ricki's control the NIx have played some great football!  its true that that we dont have a gun striker but we certainly have the players who have scored previously and lady luck idoesnt appear to be with us currently. I am really enjoying the way the Nix are playing.more through the middle, less defensive type football. Certainly we could have had several goals against the Tards and if just one of those had gone in the result may have weel been different. I for one am prepared to wait a while and give things a chance to settle in with the new owners and see what the team can produce, bearing in mind that just prior to this season the upset that was unfolding was in danger of derailing us altogether and im sure that a lot of us were just glad that we would be watching the Nix at the Westpac ( the team not moved to auckland)and been happy with that...for me everything else is a bonus, and people may say that I have low expectations and maybe I have ( also a birmingham city supporter) but as I said earlier we are playing better football than we have for a couple of years and when all the finances are sorted there may be a little cash for new players....it would be a most welcome bonus

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
There's only one thing these fat cat football club owning 1%ers understand and that's Occupy something!!!
We are the 99% of Phoenix fans and we demand a more onesided distribution of salary cap to one epic striker!!!

Lets all go to the waterfront and sit down and when people ask us what our goals are we'll tell we want more Phoenix players.

No but seriously the angst all over the place is ridiculous, we are playing good football and have a decent squad, the injury situation is only temporary, we will probably sign someone in January in keeping with the Welnix plan of building support base and the club for the future.
This season was always going to be difficult with our poor recruitment, we won't always get the results we deserve but keep the faith, the second half of this and the next the season will be kick ass.

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm panicking solely because Sunday's game proves that RoF is no longer our fortress, and we will be wooden spooners if we don't start winning games and fast. And I have a horrible feeling that Welnix's response to coming last will be to cut back on players even more - perhaps run a squad half full of ASBPrem players next year and have them coached by Dave Edgecumbe.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bring back optimistic Doloras (and Hope!)
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Optimistic Doloras was beaten to death by j_d and Napier Phoenix, whom I believe are still dancing on the corpse.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
Optimistic Doloras was beaten to death by j_d and Napier Phoenix, whom I believe are still dancing on the corpse.


You should go to Smiggle. That place is like Disneyland with stationery!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
And I have a horrible feeling that Welnix's response to coming last will be to cut back on players even more - perhaps run a squad half full of ASBPrem players next year

The impression I get is that they want to increase the amount of kiwis in the squad and increase the development ability of the club regardless of where we finish. Not sure of time frame but sort of general direction of club, obviously while balancing short term goals of being competitive.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion wrote:
Doloras wrote:
And I have a horrible feeling that Welnix's response to coming last will be to cut back on players even more - perhaps run a squad half full of ASBPrem players next year

The impression I get is that they want to increase the amount of kiwis in the squad and increase the development ability of the club regardless of where we finish. Not sure of time frame but sort of general direction of club, obviously while balancing short term goals of being competitive.

I'm pretty sure that they (welnix) said at some point that while they didn't expect to the win the league soon but they saw top 6 finishes as goals for the club, I think the word consistently was used also.
Chill out they won't run us into the ground.

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

This might not add much, but Pav's injury is being discussed as if it's a bad thing for the club. I realise that it halves the striking stocks at the club, but it increases the striking ability infinitely.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bigtobz wrote:

This might not add much, but Pav's injury is being discussed as if it's a bad thing for the club. I realise that it halves the striking stocks at the club, but it increases the striking ability infinitely.



I'd hate to agree... but I agree.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
Optimistic Doloras was beaten to death by j_d and Napier Phoenix, whom I believe are still dancing on the corpse.


Mostly true.  I'm dancing with them on her grave.  While Optimistic Doloras may not have appreciated or deserved a burial, the old girl was getting a bit rank and squishy after so much cavorting.



We have "Ding-dong! The witch is dead!" on loop.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cool guys don't dance.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
Yeah,Chris greenacre needs to teach himself to shoot better!
..
 
.....and Leo...108 matches in the A-LEAGUE  for a return of  8 goals, super goalscoring effort from a attacking midfield player..0.074074 goals per match.
 We just need people to start finshing....3-1 win on Friday!!!
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Stripes wrote:
They do too.� And I can prove it.

And here

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Getting a new striker is going to do little to change what is a pretty mediocre mid table squad that will finish somewhere between 8th and 6th.  What is a bit of a concern for me is that the general staff surrounding the club are still both low key and thin on the ground.  The club needs a proper general manager to both be the face of the club in the media and to make the effective changes to the organisation required to get us back up to the level we were at 3 years ago.  The lack of a goal keeping coach is a worry and I'm at a loss to know why that hasn't been addressed.
 
Contracts in front of 3 european strikers?  How would we have paid for that?  I'd believe it when I saw it.
 
Asking the owners to dip into their pockets for significant funding for new players - has anyone considered that if that was what was required they might not have invested? 
 
I've no doubt the club still loses money - although it would be good if members were shown the accounts so that we had some idea of the level of losses and so that the  owners could be held to some level of accountability.  E.g. when we sold John McKain why weren't we the fans told how much we got for our best player?  The point of that deal hinged on the value of the fee that we received.
james dean2011-11-02 23:46:36

Normo's coming home

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No.  The point of that deal hinged on the fact that a Saudi club were offering him way more than we could pay and he wanted to go.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yes, but he still had a contract with us which he signed freely and willingly.  We were told it was a great deal for all concerned, as a fan I'd like to know what we got out of the deal.  Just generally I'd like to see a bit more openness and professionalism

Normo's coming home

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Getting a new striker is going to do little to change what is a pretty mediocre mid table squad that will finish somewhere between 8th and 6th.  What is a bit of a concern for me is that the general staff surrounding the club are still both low key and thin on the ground.  The club needs a proper general manager to both be the face of the club in the media and to make the effective changes to the organisation required to get us back up to the level we were at 3 years ago.  The lack of a goal keeping coach is a worry and I'm at a loss to know why that hasn't been addressed.
 
Contracts in front of 3 european strikers?  How would we have paid for that?  I'd believe it when I saw it.
 
Asking the owners to dip into their pockets for significant funding for new players - has anyone considered that if that was what was required they might not have invested? 
 
I've no doubt the club still loses money - although it would be good if members were shown the accounts so that we had some idea of the level of losses and so that the  owners could be held to some level of accountability.  E.g. when we sold John McKain why weren't we the fans told how much we got for our best player?  The point of that deal hinged on the value of the fee that we received.
 
Yay, that's at least one doom merchant prepared to stick to his guns!!
 
When you've got Mark Paston, a model professional, openly challenging the club's new owners to open their wallets in the press it is not the time to be saying "let's all cut Welnix some slack".
 
We disagree on the striker issue though JD. We've needed something more up front for a long time. Much as I wish it weren't true, waiting for Pavlovic to get fit ain't the answer.
 
 

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Once more with feeling: we needed new owners who understood how to run a football club. All indications are that Welnix don't. Wouldn't be surprised if Iffy et al. get poached in the next couple of months.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
seriously guys are we going to give the welnix crowd a chance here or not - you can't expect new owners to come in flashing money around especially when players liek Kewell and Emerton are failing - the big money spenders are not the ones succeeding - take the Roar for example - smart buyers and great results.
Quote from Morrison in the paper today - tells me that welnix are in this for the long haul, this season may be less than we expected but the future looks bright.
"We want to start identifying young players and building talent through an academy system and feeder team, because longer-term that makes a lot more sense in terms of building a sustainable football club. The clubs that are doing best aren't the clubs who are actually spending the most money at the moment. We've got an open mind, hopefully the fans can have an open mind as well."

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What he's effectively saying is that Nix fans should look forward to being wooden spooners for the next three to four years.
 
God knows what sort of club might be left by the time they finally have an academy player ready to join the first team.
 
Look, it's a great long-term strategy and I'm not asking them throw millions down the drain in the short-term but at least give us something. And the back-room and coaching staff need to be brought up to speed now.
 

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
terminator_x wrote:
 
Look, it's a great long-term strategy and I'm not asking them throw millions down the drain in the short-term but at least give us something. And the back-room and coaching staff need to be brought up to speed now.
 
Think he's on the same page with you there:
"In terms of tangible developments this season, Morrison said there would be a boost to the currently skinny staffing numbers, both on the footballing and administration sides."
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hlmphil wrote:
terminator_x wrote:
 
Look, it's a great long-term strategy and I'm not asking them throw millions down the drain in the short-term but at least give us something. And the back-room and coaching staff need to be brought up to speed now.
 
Think he's on the same page with you there:
"In terms of tangible developments this season, Morrison said there would be a boost to the currently skinny staffing numbers, both on the footballing and administration sides."
 
If he's only taliking about sometime this season then not only are we not on the same page we're not even reading the same book.
 

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Same library?
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