Why are existing pro teams allowed to join - will Auckland play a reserve team? More importantly, why are South Melbourne involved?
Ideally, This would be a reserve team for Auckland to help build a full on squad towards their 1st team. CHCH will be really good for the comp. Why the Nix missed out is weird. The reserves could have played in that too, like AFC. WTF has South Melbourne got to do with this, God only knows. An Aussie team can play in an Oceania League but neither the Nix nor AFC can play in the Asian Champions League. Double standards me thinks.
South Melbourne will not be allowed to compete at the CWC if they win the OFCLeague.
Is this an assumption or is there a source for this? I'd be interested to know what's in it for south Melbourne if they can't get the cash for the win.YoungHeartHM
LG
rua_taniwha
Why are existing pro teams allowed to join - will Auckland play a reserve team? More importantly, why are South Melbourne involved?
Ideally, This would be a reserve team for Auckland to help build a full on squad towards their 1st team. CHCH will be really good for the comp. Why the Nix missed out is weird. The reserves could have played in that too, like AFC. WTF has South Melbourne got to do with this, God only knows. An Aussie team can play in an Oceania League but neither the Nix nor AFC can play in the Asian Champions League. Double standards me thinks.
South Melbourne will not be allowed to compete at the CWC if they win the OFCLeague.
Man, you always take the club’s side. Are you employed by them?Ryan
I think David was spot on.
until last season the club was generally thought of being well run. Praised for the quality of visa signings, the work the academy was doing in both mens and womens side, navigating nzf to setup the framework that allowed reserve teams to play in local comps, taking pro football around the country, lobbying football Australia to get an alw team, bringing in big overseas clubs in preseasons, relatively financially stable, not terrible crowds compared with clubs in aus in larger markets, programmes like football for all giving back to the community etc.
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7 months ago
Nommag
Is this an assumption or is there a source for this? I'd be interested to know what's in it for south Melbourne if they can't get the cash for the win.YoungHeartHM
LG
rua_taniwha
Why are existing pro teams allowed to join - will Auckland play a reserve team? More importantly, why are South Melbourne involved?
Ideally, This would be a reserve team for Auckland to help build a full on squad towards their 1st team. CHCH will be really good for the comp. Why the Nix missed out is weird. The reserves could have played in that too, like AFC. WTF has South Melbourne got to do with this, God only knows. An Aussie team can play in an Oceania League but neither the Nix nor AFC can play in the Asian Champions League. Double standards me thinks.
South Melbourne will not be allowed to compete at the CWC if they win the OFCLeague.
It was stated by OFC when the Pro League was launched. Fame and glory is what's in it for them, I suppose.
Is this an assumption or is there a source for this? I'd be interested to know what's in it for south Melbourne if they can't get the cash for the win.YoungHeartHM
LG
rua_taniwha
Why are existing pro teams allowed to join - will Auckland play a reserve team? More importantly, why are South Melbourne involved?
Ideally, This would be a reserve team for Auckland to help build a full on squad towards their 1st team. CHCH will be really good for the comp. Why the Nix missed out is weird. The reserves could have played in that too, like AFC. WTF has South Melbourne got to do with this, God only knows. An Aussie team can play in an Oceania League but neither the Nix nor AFC can play in the Asian Champions League. Double standards me thinks.
South Melbourne will not be allowed to compete at the CWC if they win the OFCLeague.
I can't speak for SMFC's motivations towards being in this competition. Maybe its a big middle finger to Football Australia, The A-League? I don't know exactly. They're a polarizing figurehead in the game over there.
I dont have a source to hand per se, as this is what I've been told in private conversations with several people more in the know than me. Andrew Pragnell has said previously about Oceania clubs being the only ones who could progress to the riches of the Club World Cup out of this league too, and that is something I support 100% - If NZ teams can't qualify through an AFC league, then an AFC side should face the same blocking mechanisms.
Man, you always take the club’s side. Are you employed by them?Ryan
I think David was spot on.
until last season the club was generally thought of being well run. Praised for the quality of visa signings, the work the academy was doing in both mens and womens side, navigating nzf to setup the framework that allowed reserve teams to play in local comps, taking pro football around the country, lobbying football Australia to get an alw team, bringing in big overseas clubs in preseasons, relatively financially stable, not terrible crowds compared with clubs in aus in larger markets, programmes like football for all giving back to the community etc.
There's a difference between thinking the club is being well run and defending every single decision the General Manager makes.
On a side note, people get way too hung up on the Nix not being eligible to qualify for the CWC via the ALM and AFC Champions League.
I don't think there has been a season yet in 17 campaigns where the Nix finished high enough in the ALM to get a spot in the AFC Champions League. Even in 2023/24 when they were 2nd to CCM, AFC had formed the AFC Champions Elite comp with the ALM getting just the 1 spot.
Last year in that Champions Elite comp Eastern Conference, the Mariners were dead last, not even close to making it to the playoffs (East verus West). They got 1 point from 7 games. ALM teams of late have consistently been outclassed in the AFC Champions League (East).
Looking back the Wanderers winning the 2014 Champions League under Poppa was some sort of miracle, totally against the odds. And since then the Saudi teams with all the slush money in their league have got manifestly stronger.
Saudi teams have won 3 of the last 6 versions of the AFC Champions League to get to the CWC. Ulsan Hyundai (Sth Korea), Urawa Red Diamonds (Japan) and Al Ain (UAE) the other winners in that period.
Even if the Nix were eligible I would give them as low as a 1% chance, of being able to win the Premiers Plate and then go on to get past all those AFC teams in their path, to qualify for the CWC. Even monied Auckland FC I'd have as low as 5%. It's just that tough.
This OFC Pro League, is going to offer a far far easier potential path to the CWC. Hence Dave Dome spitting the dummy.
Though we are yet to find out what the OFC Pro League's regs will be on whether surplus ALM squad players can drop down to play in the OFC League etc etc. It won't be a walk over for AFC at all. Plus need to remember that the CWC is now only every 4 years. So it's associated big pot of qualification gold doesn't come around annually any more.
Man, you always take the club’s side. Are you employed by them?Ryan
I think David was spot on.
until last season the club was generally thought of being well run. Praised for the quality of visa signings, the work the academy was doing in both mens and womens side, navigating nzf to setup the framework that allowed reserve teams to play in local comps, taking pro football around the country, lobbying football Australia to get an alw team, bringing in big overseas clubs in preseasons, relatively financially stable, not terrible crowds compared with clubs in aus in larger markets, programmes like football for all giving back to the community etc.
There's a difference between thinking the club is being well run and defending every single decision the General Manager makes.
Ryan is the latter.
Im with what Bullion has posted. There can be no denying Domey has been a big part in negotiating the Phoenix through some troubling times. Yes he has got some things wrong but doubt there is a Football CEO out there who gets everything right and satisfies all the fans. It could also be argued that without some of the groundwork put down by the the Phoenix and Domey its doubtful Auckland would have even been given a chance. Also not sure i get how people can lay the blame with him for not being succesful when there has been little released about how the decision was reached.
Man, you always take the club’s side. Are you employed by them?Ryan
I think David was spot on.
until last season the club was generally thought of being well run. Praised for the quality of visa signings, the work the academy was doing in both mens and womens side, navigating nzf to setup the framework that allowed reserve teams to play in local comps, taking pro football around the country, lobbying football Australia to get an alw team, bringing in big overseas clubs in preseasons, relatively financially stable, not terrible crowds compared with clubs in aus in larger markets, programmes like football for all giving back to the community etc.
There's a difference between thinking the club is being well run and defending every single decision the General Manager makes.
Ryan is the latter.
I think the club is on average well run and it's intangible things that have prevented us from being successful. I don't agree with everything, I'm not a supporter of Chief staying on for instance but think he probably deserved another chance after his first season. I think our squad is quite weak and I don't think playing a high line and a press is a good idea for a NZ team playing in the heat of Australia.
I also think the Phoneix have done the hard yards and flown the flag for professional football in the region and deserved the spot.
Man, you always take the club’s side. Are you employed by them?Ryan
I think David was spot on.
until last season the club was generally thought of being well run. Praised for the quality of visa signings, the work the academy was doing in both mens and womens side, navigating nzf to setup the framework that allowed reserve teams to play in local comps, taking pro football around the country, lobbying football Australia to get an alw team, bringing in big overseas clubs in preseasons, relatively financially stable, not terrible crowds compared with clubs in aus in larger markets, programmes like football for all giving back to the community etc.
There's a difference between thinking the club is being well run and defending every single decision the General Manager makes.
Ryan is the latter.
sure, no one's perfect. But we don't know what went on regarding this ofc pro league, all we have is evidence as outside observers we can see and in general the last better part of a decade the club has been pretty well run which I imagine Domey has some part in that.
Yes, the stakes have been raised - a poor season on the pitch will put more scrutiny on all areas of the business.
Insane take. As if there is nothing Dome can do that influences the on field success of the team(s) at the club. It is just completely random, they might as well be rolling dice, is it?
Insane take. As if there is nothing Dome can do that influences the on field success of the team(s) at the club. It is just completely random, they might as well be rolling dice, is it?
I know you want some bloodletting, but you know there is separation between areas of the club - yes, if Dome's side is doing well it gives the footballing side more resources but that's not a guarantee for on field success.
Insane take. As if there is nothing Dome can do that influences the on field success of the team(s) at the club. It is just completely random, they might as well be rolling dice, is it?
by my count we have had three golden opportunities to win it, one we lost momentum after a long break for the Asian cup, another we lost momentum during covid, the third the team should have won, maybe a confidence thing. In most cases you could say the back office did everything possible to get results, including building a temporary stadium in lower hutt and relocating the team to Australia with everything that entailed, and the footballing side had the ingredients for success but for varioud reasons it didnt work out. Thats the intangibles.
So who is in charge of the club? Not the owner/s but the person who has the overarching responsibly for running the club. That’s Dome isn’t it? We have moaned for a number of years about the perceived failings of the club but lets just cast our memories back ove4 the last 18 months or so. Extending the GK contract after only 2 games, coach losing the dressing room and being given another contract when we were pretty poor. Losing 3 of our best performing players to other A League clubs, Failing to put together a decent enough proposal for the OFC league (someone here shared a rumour that the application was very poor - might have been YH who’s bully is usually spot on except for his unexplained theory on the width of the German/Danish border lol. A seemingly poor recruitment strategy this year, have I missed anything? I know that if was in charge of a clusterfudge like this, my employer would give me the boot, as a boss, I would certainly be giving him the arse.Bullion
imanixsupporter
Insane take. As if there is nothing Dome can do that influences the on field success of the team(s) at the club. It is just completely random, they might as well be rolling dice, is it?
I know you want some bloodletting, but you know there is separation between areas of the club - yes, if Dome's side is doing well it gives the footballing side more resources but that's not a guarantee for on field success.
Ryan, I said in my post the last 12 months of intangibles
There is a saying you are only as good as your last game.
A bit harsh admittedly, so let’s have them for the last 12 months to be fair.
That is the period which any performance review would cover as past performance is no indication of future performance and it is clear balls are being dropped constantly by the CEO.
This ball dropped is the biggest one yet and includes the loss of potential FIFA dollars (we hear constantly from him how he doesn’t know how the owners keep on pumping dollars into the Nix - well FIFA dollars would be a good start) exposure of sponsors to a different market and young players from the academy, not immediately signed into the top squad now having a better pathway to being professionals with competitors.
Some people here are talking about Roy Krishna, being an example of how the Nix have benefited Oceania. They have short memories as he was only picked up when he was 26 or 27, despite carving up the domestic league for years.
He then plays the entitled card, talking about lawyering up simply as a diversion to hide his own fudge up.
That is inexcusable and if people continue to be cheer leaders, then the Nix despite their academy will never reach its true potential.
So who is in charge of the club? Not the owner/s but the person who has the overarching responsibly for running the club. That’s Dome isn’t it? We have moaned for a number of years about the perceived failings of the club but lets just cast our memories back ove4 the last 18 months or so. Extending the GK contract after only 2 games, coach losing the dressing room and being given another contract when we were pretty poor. Losing 3 of our best performing players to other A League clubs, Failing to put together a decent enough proposal for the OFC league (someone here shared a rumour that the application was very poor - might have been YH who’s bully is usually spot on except for his unexplained theory on the width of the German/Danish border lol. A seemingly poor recruitment strategy this year, have I missed anything? I know that if was in charge of a clusterfudge like this, my employer would give me the boot, as a boss, I would certainly be giving him the arse.Bullion
imanixsupporter
Insane take. As if there is nothing Dome can do that influences the on field success of the team(s) at the club. It is just completely random, they might as well be rolling dice, is it?
I know you want some bloodletting, but you know there is separation between areas of the club - yes, if Dome's side is doing well it gives the footballing side more resources but that's not a guarantee for on field success.
We have a director of football that has the purview of running the footballing side. There is a football committee above that (Chiefy had to present to the committee to keep his job in a split vote), which I'm not sure who is involved at present (at one point Noah Hickey was on the committee but he's an AFC shareholder now) and it may include Dome (maybe as a non-voting member so he keeps abreast of operations). Dome might be involved with signings, but more likely only on the financial side as Gill seems more active in that area.
Ryan, I said in my post the last 12 months of intangibles
There is a saying you are only as good as your last game.
A bit harsh admittedly, so let’s have them for the last 12 months to be fair.
That is the period which any performance review would cover as past performance is no indication of future performance and it is clear balls are being dropped constantly by the CEO.
This ball dropped is the biggest one yet and includes the loss of potential FIFA dollars (we hear constantly from him how he doesn’t know how the owners keep on pumping dollars into the Nix - well FIFA dollars would be a good start) exposure of sponsors to a different market and young players from the academy, not immediately signed into the top squad now having a better pathway to being professionals with competitors.
Some people here are talking about Roy Krishna, being an example of how the Nix have benefited Oceania. They have short memories as he was only picked up when he was 26 or 27, despite carving up the domestic league for years.
He then plays the entitled card, talking about lawyering up simply as a diversion to hide his own fudge up.
That is inexcusable and if people continue to do so, then the Nix despite their academy will never reach its true potential.
Not just Roy, but Kaltak was given a spot in the academy, and we had two Solomon Islanders in Totori and Raphael Lea'i (who the club had organised a scholarship at Scots College.
Brian's skills even caught the attention of Colin Tuaa, a former New Zealand internationalplayer, during an Oceania Football Confederation tournament in New Zealand. Impressed by Brian's abilities, Colin arranged a six-month scholarship for him to train with the A-League club Wellington Phoenix while continuing to play local football with Waterside Karori.[3][6] To support his training and development, Brian received financial assistance of NZ$15,000 from the Oceania Football Confederation, covering the costs associated with his training and ensuring he had the opportunity to grow as a player.[7]
I question if we can put that one down to David Dome supporting the pacific and giving an academy spot the last 15 years.
Dome isn't the CEO, he's the General Manager. Ultimately i think the board and WelNix are more involved with the running of the club than you think as well as the aforementioned footballing committee.
The intangibles last season included an injury crises and a loss of confidence after the first game against Auckland. Until that point we were riding high.
the point is that the issue isn't necessaril with the back office and often the back office has been able to provide the footballing department with the resources it needs to succeed and theres been intangible things in the footballing side which has stopped it. I never said the intangibles related to Dome.
Lol [headed off to this]ed thread to turn a point into a straw man.
You’ve got a hardon for Dome. I get it. We all get it. We’ve heard it a lot.
My point on OFC was two fold- are we supposed to be this business or not? That was the complaint right? We’re not hard nosed like AFC.
Roy Krishna took a long time not starting and getting coaching from Merrick to make the step up. Even after dominating everything he could at the highest level the OFC could offer at that point. And that was a good decision that benefited everyone. Are we supposed to have been a charity for the OFC? What has the confederation been doing to prepare their players for professional football? Remembering that for most teams OFC players are competing with the Guilermo Mays of this world as imports requiring dispensations and often visas that require higher level international play.
Fair enough if you want to criticise, but don’t be a plonker about it.
We were supposed to be running a charity for OFC during the metrics era? Come on man.
Should we have signed Kaltak ahead of Steven Taylor or Wootton?
I actually made this thread because none of the cheer leaders here have ever questioned David Dome and it’s about time someone did - so no I won’t be fudgeing heading anywhere.
And I believe it was actually Dome in his short statement whilst threatening legal action who brought up all the great stuff the club had done for Oceania.
When in reality over 15 years it is minimal for the island nations.
Not criticising minimal action or investment with our island cousins as it’s not the Nix’s job but criticising and calling the bull shark from the guy who said it was actually done.
It hasn’t been over 15 years so don’t sell it. If he tried that on in his business plan you could understand why he got rejected.
If you are lapping up the bull shark from this guy then I have a bridge to sell to you.
Haven’t read it and it’s good to keep the club and Domey honest. [Sorry- my first thing was to say you’d not replied directly to me in the other thread but come here instead and talked vaguely about what I posted. I didn’t mean you should take a hike. That’s very poorly worded by me. Corrected it now.]
Edit: Here’s the statement. I certainly don’t think it’s unfair at all if you consider NZ is part of Oceania and the way the professional game in this country has evolved as a result of the Phoenix. He doesn’t say the Pacific Islands.
Statement: “The Phoenix have fought for football in Oceania since 2007. We are the only club in the OFC region with a fully staffed, eight team professional academy, the only club in Oceania with a professional pathway for women’s footballers, we have world class training facilities and we have invested more money into football in the region than any other private organisation.
“We are considering a judicial review of the process and how the licensing decision has been made.”
Having been the only professional club for so long and then not having a pathway to represent the region, to be excluded from this while including AFC, is odd. I think there was something of a consensus in opinion on here that they either needed to go with both or neither of the A league clubs.
And his threat has already changed what’s being said.
I don’t know that it’s fair to assume that the issue is all with the Phoenix and their submission. The Phoenix do have a credibility given the rate at which clubs fall over, as they’ve survived so many issues under Rob’s leadership.
Dome is the general manager NOT the CEO should we really be talking about him or should we be talking about Rob Morrison or are we not allowed to because he has the money?
I mean yeah pretty much. Rob is accountable to no one and without his money we would be in a new level of trouble. Domey is and maybe should be expendable
I was wondering how Rob and Mr Foley were getting along because initially they were wine making friends, or strong acquaintances. There seemed to be respect there.
To have one A league club in for the big cash prize and the other shut out entirely must make that an interesting relationship.
I was wondering how Rob and Mr Foley were getting along because initially they were wine making friends, or strong acquaintances. There seemed to be respect there.
To have one A league club in for the big cash prize and the other shut out entirely must make that an interesting relationship.
Were they ? i had heard Rob tried to have some form of dialogue him but nothing came of it. Pretty much the same cold shoulder some of the staff got when they tried to liaise with Auckland over various things.
I mean yeah pretty much. Rob is accountable to no one and without his money we would be in a new level of trouble. Domey is and maybe should be expendable
Spot on Rob does what he wants even down to walk out songs if dosnt like it then stands no show of being used.
I was wondering how Rob and Mr Foley were getting along because initially they were wine making friends, or strong acquaintances. There seemed to be respect there.
To have one A league club in for the big cash prize and the other shut out entirely must make that an interesting relationship.
Were they ? i had heard Rob tried to have some form of dialogue him but nothing came of it. Pretty much the same cold shoulder some of the staff got when they tried to liaise with Auckland over various things.
You’re probably more up to date than me. I remember there was some talk about Rob suggesting the league to him or something in the official version when he showed up to spike the other team that was looking for approval.
That is not how businesses work. There is always someone in charge, the clue is in Dome’s title, General Manager. Everybody reports to him and he reports to the board and owners, who only have governance functions. Morrison does not have time to be as hands on as some seem to think. Anyone putting forward this theory have any actual experience in big business and governance?Bullion
Napier Phoenix
So who is in charge of the club? Not the owner/s but the person who has the overarching responsibly for running the club. That’s Dome isn’t it? We have moaned for a number of years about the perceived failings of the club but lets just cast our memories back ove4 the last 18 months or so. Extending the GK contract after only 2 games, coach losing the dressing room and being given another contract when we were pretty poor. Losing 3 of our best performing players to other A League clubs, Failing to put together a decent enough proposal for the OFC league (someone here shared a rumour that the application was very poor - might have been YH who’s bully is usually spot on except for his unexplained theory on the width of the German/Danish border lol. A seemingly poor recruitment strategy this year, have I missed anything? I know that if was in charge of a clusterfudge like this, my employer would give me the boot, as a boss, I would certainly be giving him the arse.Bullion
imanixsupporter
Insane take. As if there is nothing Dome can do that influences the on field success of the team(s) at the club. It is just completely random, they might as well be rolling dice, is it?
I know you want some bloodletting, but you know there is separation between areas of the club - yes, if Dome's side is doing well it gives the footballing side more resources but that's not a guarantee for on field success.
We have a director of football that has the purview of running the footballing side. There is a football committee above that (Chiefy had to present to the committee to keep his job in a split vote), which I'm not sure who is involved at present (at one point Noah Hickey was on the committee but he's an AFC shareholder now) and it may include Dome (maybe as a non-voting member so he keeps abreast of operations). Dome might be involved with signings, but more likely only on the financial side as Gill seems more active in that area.
Dome is the general manager NOT the CEO should we really be talking about him or should we be talking about Rob Morrison or are we not allowed to because he has the money?
That is not how businesses work. There is always someone in charge, the clue is in Dome’s title, General Manager. Everybody reports to him and he reports to the board and owners, who only have governance functions. Morrison does not have time to be as hands on as some seem to think. Anyone putting forward this theory have any actual experience in big business and governance?Bullion
Napier Phoenix
So who is in charge of the club? Not the owner/s but the person who has the overarching responsibly for running the club. That’s Dome isn’t it? We have moaned for a number of years about the perceived failings of the club but lets just cast our memories back ove4 the last 18 months or so. Extending the GK contract after only 2 games, coach losing the dressing room and being given another contract when we were pretty poor. Losing 3 of our best performing players to other A League clubs, Failing to put together a decent enough proposal for the OFC league (someone here shared a rumour that the application was very poor - might have been YH who’s bully is usually spot on except for his unexplained theory on the width of the German/Danish border lol. A seemingly poor recruitment strategy this year, have I missed anything? I know that if was in charge of a clusterfudge like this, my employer would give me the boot, as a boss, I would certainly be giving him the arse.Bullion
imanixsupporter
Insane take. As if there is nothing Dome can do that influences the on field success of the team(s) at the club. It is just completely random, they might as well be rolling dice, is it?
I know you want some bloodletting, but you know there is separation between areas of the club - yes, if Dome's side is doing well it gives the footballing side more resources but that's not a guarantee for on field success.
We have a director of football that has the purview of running the footballing side. There is a football committee above that (Chiefy had to present to the committee to keep his job in a split vote), which I'm not sure who is involved at present (at one point Noah Hickey was on the committee but he's an AFC shareholder now) and it may include Dome (maybe as a non-voting member so he keeps abreast of operations). Dome might be involved with signings, but more likely only on the financial side as Gill seems more active in that area.
Think you may be surprised Morrison has more say in things than you seem to credit him for.
