I went to watch Stevenage destroy Wimbledon at the new Plough Lane a couple of months ago. Awesome little stadium that would be a good model IMO. Capacity just under 10K, very user friendly and well-integrated with retail and high-density housing.
Putting the whole Fraser Park thing aside for a minute, as who knows how real a prospect it is. Before I heard about that I had assumed that Welnix's plan was just to dig in and wait until Sky Stadium needed major refurbishment and then lobby hard for it to be modified to be more appropriate for rectangular sports at that point.
I wonder, would it be a feasible option to try and make that happen sooner rather than later? Would it really be such a great loss to cricket? How many cricket games a year get bigger crowds than the capacity of Basin Reserve? How expensive would it be to do stadium surgery to turn the stadium into something more rectangular and intimate feeling for games with an attendance of >10k? How much more expensive than constructing a new stadium at Fraser Park and associated surrounding infrastructure upgrades? Could the existential threat to Sky Stadium of rugby and football taking everything to a Fraser Park Stadium get them/Council on board with speeding up that timeline?
Because Sky Stadium obviously has everything else going for it in terms of location and transportation.
I went to watch Stevenage destroy Wimbledon at the new Plough Lane a couple of months ago. Awesome little stadium that would be a good model IMO. Capacity just under 10K, very user friendly and well-integrated with retail and high-density housing.
Nice stadium but i just dont see the point of building one if thats the capacity for me defiantly needs to be 15k at the smallest
I read somewhere that the temporary pop up stadium at Rugby league park in Christchurch will be down graded/decommissioned. No longer needed when the new Te Kaha stadium comes on stream. The stands are designed to be unbolted and could be moved and rebuilt else where. Ok, its not ideal but it would be considerably cheaper to move a couple of these stands to a venue in Wellington than build from scratch. You wont get a cent or any help from WCC but it might work in the Hutt Valley
I went to watch Stevenage destroy Wimbledon at the new Plough Lane a couple of months ago. Awesome little stadium that would be a good model IMO. Capacity just under 10K, very user friendly and well-integrated with retail and high-density housing.
Nice stadium but i just dont see the point of building one if thats the capacity for me defiantly needs to be 15k at the smallest
According to the initial latest rumour, it would be a venue for most A League games, except playoffs and AFC Derbies which would be at the ROF.
So 10K capacity is all that's needed. I imagine it's going to be difficult to finance this mooted project as it is. The smaller it is the cheaper it is, and 10,000 is enough for 90-95% of matches played by Wellington Rugby NPC and the Nix.
Putting the whole Fraser Park thing aside for a minute, as who knows how real a prospect it is. Before I heard about that I had assumed that Welnix's plan was just to dig in and wait until Sky Stadium needed major refurbishment and then lobby hard for it to be modified to be more appropriate for rectangular sports at that point.
I wonder, would it be a feasible option to try and make that happen sooner rather than later? Would it really be such a great loss to cricket? How many cricket games a year get bigger crowds than the capacity of Basin Reserve? How expensive would it be to do stadium surgery to turn the stadium into something more rectangular and intimate feeling for games with an attendance of >10k? How much more expensive than constructing a new stadium at Fraser Park and associated surrounding infrastructure upgrades? Could the existential threat to Sky Stadium of rugby and football taking everything to a Fraser Park Stadium get them/Council on board with speeding up that timeline?
Because Sky Stadium obviously has everything else going for it in terms of location and transportation.
Ain't no configuration happening anytime soon. Neither knocking down and starting from scratch. Have a read of the below link.
Seems the Stadium Trust were reluctant to take out extra bank lending to do seismic strengthening as it was.
There is just no money around, to make multi million dollar changes to the ROF. A stadium that is still a young 25 years old.
Maybe if a Australian, Indonesian & NZ joint bid ever successfully bid to host the FIFA Mens World Cup, there would be some big FIFA and/or NZ Govt money sloshing around to upgrade the ROF. Make it a rectangle.
Give NZ two stadiums that could host pool games. Noting FIFA requires WC stadiums to have a minimum capacity of 40,000 spectators for group stage matches.
2038 WC? Though would violate FIFA's confederation rotation policy, as AFC (Saudi) is hosting in 2034. Unless of course AFC splits in two at some point.
https://www.gw.govt.nz/assets/Documents/2024/08/Wellington-Regional-Stadium-Trust-Statement-of-Trustees-Intent-2024-25.pdf The other included capex is what is necessary to keep the Stadium operating as a safe and efficient venue, with limited capacity to make material improvements that would provide for a better client and patron experience. With the Stadium approaching 25 years of age, much of the plant equipment and fixtures are from the original build and replacement is required due to age of equipment and obsolescence of parts for repairs. Many Stadiums in Australia and New Zealand built around the same time have received or are earmarked for substantial upgrades, or in some cases replacement.
I went to watch Stevenage destroy Wimbledon at the new Plough Lane a couple of months ago. Awesome little stadium that would be a good model IMO. Capacity just under 10K, very user friendly and well-integrated with retail and high-density housing.
Nice stadium but i just dont see the point of building one if thats the capacity for me defiantly needs to be 15k at the smallest
According to the initial latest rumour, it would be a venue for most A League games, except playoffs and AFC Derbies which would be at the ROF.
So 10K capacity is all that's needed. I imagine it's going to be difficult to finance this mooted project as it is. The smaller it is the cheaper it is, and 10,000 is enough for 90-95% of matches played by Wellington Rugby NPC and the Nix.
We'll outgrow 10k with a purpose-built rectangular stadium. Once everyone gets a taste of the atmosphere, the crowd will be higher than the average 6k-ish we're currently getting. I'd honestly do 15-20k if I was to dream for a little moment.
I seriously doubt that would happen. Fraser Park is not as central or as easy to get to as the ROF, for the overall Wellington Region.
18 seasons show the club's locked on supporter base is in that 5,000-8,000 range. I don't think a new (maybe budget open modular design) stadium in the Hutt is going to change that.
There were the 3 games at the Hutt Wreck in 2015. Did the crowds grow in size over those 3 matches? I remember there was one, where the wind was pretty ferocious.
This idea all seems about saving on the high lease costs of playing at the ROF, and secondary to that providing a more intimate game day experience. But I seriously doubt the average crowds would grow from what they are now. Welly's population is barely growing, and regulary attending live sport every fortnight with each passing year is becoming less of a thing.
The Roar moved to suburban Redcliffe (about 40 min drive north of the Brissy CBD) for a few seasons. Can't have made much long term difference to their financial situation, or attendances. They are now back at cavernous 50,000 capacity central city Suncorp.
I went to watch Stevenage destroy Wimbledon at the new Plough Lane a couple of months ago. Awesome little stadium that would be a good model IMO. Capacity just under 10K, very user friendly and well-integrated with retail and high-density housing.
Nice stadium but i just dont see the point of building one if thats the capacity for me defiantly needs to be 15k at the smallest
This (as it is one I’ve worked on) is designed to go up to 20k. The main stand is the only permanent stand with the other 3 having the ability to be extended. Main stand houses a function room and boxes to help with the commercial viability. Or at least it did at the planning stage
Scarcity tends to impact demand though. It would be much more realistic selling out a 10k stadium than selling out Sky Stadium if the Phoenix are having a good season. With a higher chance of selling out, people get their tickets early, FOMO & hype builds and it's a snowball.
Hope they're able to get this over the line to make home games less expensive for the club.
I went to watch Stevenage destroy Wimbledon at the new Plough Lane a couple of months ago. Awesome little stadium that would be a good model IMO. Capacity just under 10K, very user friendly and well-integrated with retail and high-density housing.
Nice stadium but i just dont see the point of building one if thats the capacity for me defiantly needs to be 15k at the smallest
This (as it is one I’ve worked on) is designed to go up to 20k. The main stand is the only permanent stand with the other 3 having the ability to be extended. Main stand houses a function room and boxes to help with the commercial viability. Or at least it did at the planning stage
Any idea of the cost? Noting I imagine labour and maybe even materials costs would be more expensive in London.
The new ChCh Te Kaha stadium has cost $693M. It sounds state of the art, uber flash. Has a roof, conference facilities, etc etc . Listed as a multi-functional venue, with no doubt incredible corporate box stuff going on. It's got a 30,000 capacity. It cost $693M.
I'd imagine a 10,000 ground with roofed grandstands like Plough Lane and Louisville City is a minimum $50M project as a wild wild guess, maybe more like $100M??
Why would Rob Morrison spend that much of his hard earned on such a project. How would he monetise it? Cash strapped Wellington Rugby paying him a $20K game day lease fee, 5 times per year. That's a 0.2% gross rental return on a $50M spend. I don't think Rob would like that.
Does Infratil have a taxation issue? You would have millions of deductible depreciation with a new shiny stadium.
Is there yes a local developer prepared to get involved as well. But they would literally need to be able to sell hundreds of apartments in Fraser Park, to offset the stadium cost, to make a buck. Could you build a shopping centre inside the project to make it stack up. But does the area need another Queensgate? Games of padel?
Councils and Government will just say we ain't helping, we have pipes to repair, and there is nothing wrong with playing at the ROF.
Sorry to be a bit of a killjoy, but I just don't see how building a Plough Lane replica would stack up. Austin's idea of relocating the Addington scaffolding to the Hutt may well be a good cheapest option. So yeah a rectangular small intimate ground hopefully happens, I just wouldn't get too excited about what it may look like. Happy to be proven wrong.
Note - it cost $30M to build that 'temporary' Addington stadium back in 2011. That would have included some demolition costs to knock down some of the old ugly Rugby League concrete seating. Normal capacity 18,000 but expanded to 26,000 for All Blacks test matches etc. The Government paid most of that $30M cost.
Was talking to someone heavily involved with NZRU yesterday and they mentioned that there are some plans to set up a small stadium at NZCIS for the Lions. Now obviously they have much lower attendance than the Nix at around 1500 on average but it is still interesting.
I wonder if this is something the Nix might be getting in on?
Was talking to someone heavily involved with NZRU yesterday and they mentioned that there are some plans to set up a small stadium at NZCIS for the Lions. Now obviously they have much lower attendance than the Nix at around 1500 on average but it is still interesting.
I wonder if this is something the Nix might be getting in on?
Trouble is 1500 dosnt do it for either Phoenix team. Far too small for the men and at that figure leaves no room for an increase numbers for the Wahnix.
Think Trentham would be the ideal location for a boutique stadium. Can't see it happening unless Gillies is involved.
too far away from the city the team represents, its not the Upper Hutt City Phoenix, nor is it the Wellington region Phoenix.
Sorry cant agree at all. Pretty sure since our inception much of the marketing has been directed at the Wellington Region. Would imagine a large number of fans come from outside the city area. Your having a laugh too far away , what a half hour train ride or a trip down the motorway. Seems to me there are always heaps of complaints when trains arnt running that suggests there are a number of people using them. Would imagine costs involved would be significantly better than they currently are that has to be a massive plus for the Phoenix.
What would be cool but would require someone prepared to spend a lot of money would be in the block of Rialto cinemas. Maybe have a roof and a system to be able to have concerts and other events without messing up the turf.
Think Trentham would be the ideal location for a boutique stadium. Can't see it happening unless Gillies is involved.
too far away from the city the team represents, its not the Upper Hutt City Phoenix, nor is it the Wellington region Phoenix.
Sorry cant agree at all. Pretty sure since our inception much of the marketing has been directed at the Wellington Region. Would imagine a large number of fans come from outside the city area. Your having a laugh too far away , what a half hour train ride or a trip down the motorway. Seems to me there are always heaps of complaints when trains arnt running that suggests there are a number of people using them. Would imagine costs involved would be significantly better than they currently are that has to be a massive plus for the Phoenix.
30 min train ride, lol, maybe on an express - weekend trains, stopping t every station is 45 mins+, even driving from town to Upper Hutt is a 30+ minute trial and that's without a few thousand people travelling out there.
The only reason the Nix have been welcome to all within the region is to make sure all the football fans not in Wellington City will come watch too. Wellington City is the football club's home, that is where they should be playing - simple!
You'd also have to get out there on a bus replacement half the games. Think you'd see a significant drop in crowds if home games were in Trentham. I'd certainly be making it to fewer than I do now from Island Bay.
The Phoenix do represent Greater Wellington (and much of NZ south of the Bombays), but the games should be accessible to fans living in all the cities that make up greater Wellington. The ground simply has to be closer to the population base than that.
I went to watch Stevenage destroy Wimbledon at the new Plough Lane a couple of months ago. Awesome little stadium that would be a good model IMO. Capacity just under 10K, very user friendly and well-integrated with retail and high-density housing.
Nice stadium but i just dont see the point of building one if thats the capacity for me defiantly needs to be 15k at the smallest
This (as it is one I’ve worked on) is designed to go up to 20k. The main stand is the only permanent stand with the other 3 having the ability to be extended. Main stand houses a function room and boxes to help with the commercial viability. Or at least it did at the planning stage
Any idea of the cost? Noting I imagine labour and maybe even materials costs would be more expensive in London.
The new ChCh Te Kaha stadium has cost $693M. It sounds state of the art, uber flash. Has a roof, conference facilities, etc etc . Listed as a multi-functional venue, with no doubt incredible corporate box stuff going on. It's got a 30,000 capacity. It cost $693M.
I'd imagine a 10,000 ground with roofed grandstands like Plough Lane and Louisville City is a minimum $50M project as a wild wild guess, maybe more like $100M??
Why would Rob Morrison spend that much of his hard earned on such a project. How would he monetise it? Cash strapped Wellington Rugby paying him a $20K game day lease fee, 5 times per year. That's a 0.2% gross rental return on a $50M spend. I don't think Rob would like that.
Does Infratil have a taxation issue? You would have millions of deductible depreciation with a new shiny stadium.
Is there yes a local developer prepared to get involved as well. But they would literally need to be able to sell hundreds of apartments in Fraser Park, to offset the stadium cost, to make a buck. Could you build a shopping centre inside the project to make it stack up. But does the area need another Queensgate? Games of padel?
Councils and Government will just say we ain't helping, we have pipes to repair, and there is nothing wrong with playing at the ROF.
Sorry to be a bit of a killjoy, but I just don't see how building a Plough Lane replica would stack up. Austin's idea of relocating the Addington scaffolding to the Hutt may well be a good cheapest option. So yeah a rectangular small intimate ground hopefully happens, I just wouldn't get too excited about what it may look like. Happy to be proven wrong.
Note - it cost $30M to build that 'temporary' Addington stadium back in 2011. That would have included some demolition costs to knock down some of the old ugly Rugby League concrete seating. Normal capacity 18,000 but expanded to 26,000 for All Blacks test matches etc. The Government paid most of that $30M cost.
Budget at the time was £26m from memory, but I believe it ended up just north of £31m. Doloras would know for sure, but yeah, not horrendous for the size but I think that the adjacent developer helped offset some of that, presumably the purchasing of the land.
Newtown would be epic, once the tunnels are built, does the velodrome site become an option? Shuttle bus from the train station or airport, sorted.
Dont think Newtown would be epic at all tunnels dont solve a massive parking issue and access in and out of that area. Shuttle buses wouldnt really solve an issue getting in and out of that area they would just add to it.
Have NEVER seen anything from the club that has said "Wellington City is the football club's home, that is where they should be playing - simple!" That is purely an assumption you have made. Seems you have no understanding of the efforts many make to get to the games at the stadium know. Many travel for the time you are claiming is excessive. Actually laughable you rubbishing travelling 30+ minutes to get to games its what many do and have done since we started. Im afraid if it means the club is able to save considerable money by going out there they would plain stupid to ignore it if the opportunity arises.
Dont think Newtown would be epic at all tunnels dont solve a massive parking issue and access in and out of that area. Shuttle buses wouldnt really solve an issue getting in and out of that area they would just add to it.
the proposed light rail by lgwm would have been great for this
but any decision would have to weigh cost savings benefits with the main location of the supporter base. the phoenix will have stats on this.
for example, western/northern suburbs fans need to make 2x train trips, there will be a drop off. if southern suburbs need to travel further, there will be a drop off. offset of course by ease of access from the hutt valley. who knows, there could be gains.
i've said this for a long time. tickets are far too expensive. i'm told stadium costs are to blame. any move to reduce ticket prices would help a lot. far less fans are in the habit of attending games regularly. cost is a deterent, but the real damage comes from match going habits within the wider target market dropping away due to cost. this has been an ongoing downwards spiral. the phoenix is now a 1x or 2x a season treat for many.
Imagine if everyone attended most weeks? This would be driven by affordable cost that re-establishes the match going habit. This would drive increasing brand engagement which would significantly increase non matchday revenue, via merch, TV rights, etc.
Any stadium in the hutt wouldn’t get attendance from a decent proportion. It would gain attendance from Hutt folk. Might as well rename the team
Sorry Greenie, What a buggar some might have to travel just as many do know.
I’d give it a 5% chance of a stadium in Taita
Didnt say i wanted one there. With our sporting Mayor in the Hutt know, would be happy with a Hutt Rec small Stadium. Must have a chat with Ken when i next see him and plant the seed. Need a few others to do some planting as well.
Dont think Newtown would be epic at all tunnels dont solve a massive parking issue and access in and out of that area. Shuttle buses wouldnt really solve an issue getting in and out of that area they would just add to it.
Sorry, tunnels are in relation to the velodrome and yes, shuttle busses would sort a lot of it out because eventually this city will realise that they just need to dedicate a bus lane in each direction from airport to western mt. Vic to sort out a lot of traffic problems. Also, waitoa as a local, happy days 😂
I went to watch Stevenage destroy Wimbledon at the new Plough Lane a couple of months ago. Awesome little stadium that would be a good model IMO. Capacity just under 10K, very user friendly and well-integrated with retail and high-density housing.
Nice stadium but i just dont see the point of building one if thats the capacity for me defiantly needs to be 15k at the smallest
This (as it is one I’ve worked on) is designed to go up to 20k. The main stand is the only permanent stand with the other 3 having the ability to be extended. Main stand houses a function room and boxes to help with the commercial viability. Or at least it did at the planning stage
Any idea of the cost? Noting I imagine labour and maybe even materials costs would be more expensive in London.
The new ChCh Te Kaha stadium has cost $693M. It sounds state of the art, uber flash. Has a roof, conference facilities, etc etc . Listed as a multi-functional venue, with no doubt incredible corporate box stuff going on. It's got a 30,000 capacity. It cost $693M.
I'd imagine a 10,000 ground with roofed grandstands like Plough Lane and Louisville City is a minimum $50M project as a wild wild guess, maybe more like $100M??
Why would Rob Morrison spend that much of his hard earned on such a project. How would he monetise it? Cash strapped Wellington Rugby paying him a $20K game day lease fee, 5 times per year. That's a 0.2% gross rental return on a $50M spend. I don't think Rob would like that.
Does Infratil have a taxation issue? You would have millions of deductible depreciation with a new shiny stadium.
Is there yes a local developer prepared to get involved as well. But they would literally need to be able to sell hundreds of apartments in Fraser Park, to offset the stadium cost, to make a buck. Could you build a shopping centre inside the project to make it stack up. But does the area need another Queensgate? Games of padel?
Councils and Government will just say we ain't helping, we have pipes to repair, and there is nothing wrong with playing at the ROF.
Sorry to be a bit of a killjoy, but I just don't see how building a Plough Lane replica would stack up. Austin's idea of relocating the Addington scaffolding to the Hutt may well be a good cheapest option. So yeah a rectangular small intimate ground hopefully happens, I just wouldn't get too excited about what it may look like. Happy to be proven wrong.
Note - it cost $30M to build that 'temporary' Addington stadium back in 2011. That would have included some demolition costs to knock down some of the old ugly Rugby League concrete seating. Normal capacity 18,000 but expanded to 26,000 for All Blacks test matches etc. The Government paid most of that $30M cost.
Budget at the time was £26m from memory, but I believe it ended up just north of £31m. Doloras would know for sure, but yeah, not horrendous for the size but I think that the adjacent developer helped offset some of that, presumably the purchasing of the land.
Newtown would be epic, once the tunnels are built, does the velodrome site become an option? Shuttle bus from the train station or airport, sorted.
Sorry, didn't pay that much attention to the NPL costs, except that it was more than they expected and they're probably going to have to expand it a bit
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
After seeing the proposed flyover for SH1 with the tunnel changes (I'm assuming this actually gets built this time) - I do really hope Welnix and WRFU/Canes investigate Hataitai park as an option for a small rectangular ground. The road connection to Hataitai park would be drastically improved and buses to and from the train station shouldn't be hard to organise for events. No offence to the outer areas like LH and Porirua but I feel that Wellington is the heart of the region and where our regions sports teams should be on display.
After seeing the proposed flyover for SH1 with the tunnel changes (I'm assuming this actually gets built this time) - I do really hope Welnix and WRFU/Canes investigate Hataitai park as an option for a small rectangular ground. The road connection to Hataitai park would be drastically improved and buses to and from the train station shouldn't be hard to organise for events. No offence to the outer areas like LH and Porirua but I feel that Wellington is the heart of the region and where our regions sports teams should be on display.
People dont want to go to the Hutt or Upper Hutt or Porirua but seem happy to move the stadium even further away for those that travel from areas North of the Central City. Some of you have no idea of the numbers who travel form North of the city on both coasts to get to games.
Current location is perfect, size and shape of said stadium is not. Haitaitai would be easy enough to get to if the roading allowed, but it would mean an additional bus for those coming in from UH,LH and Porirua - which lengthens an already longish journey, especially if the trains are off. Not ideal. And again, the Nix, Wellington rugby arent footing the bill for a new stadium in Haitaitai, especially when they have already invested heaps of money in the NZCIS setup in UH and the hub in LH.
I agree current location is perfect, just not the right stadium. Size, shape and cost. Although the result at the last two away derbies sucked, no disputing that even when we were put in the corner the spectacle was miles better because of the venue shape.
After seeing the proposed flyover for SH1 with the tunnel changes (I'm assuming this actually gets built this time) - I do really hope Welnix and WRFU/Canes investigate Hataitai park as an option for a small rectangular ground. The road connection to Hataitai park would be drastically improved and buses to and from the train station shouldn't be hard to organise for events. No offence to the outer areas like LH and Porirua but I feel that Wellington is the heart of the region and where our regions sports teams should be on display.
This is why I raised it, there is absolute sense to it. But building a stadium in the town belt would be a mighty task if you’re not a government agency. As Porirua resident, sure, I’d love it to be at the JC but I know there are pitfalls and feel the team belongs in wellington. Current location is perfect, but barring a natural disaster, we’re not gonna get what we want.
This whole thing makes no sense. Building a rectangular ground for the Canes, Lions and Nix to play regularly in would be a death knell for Sky Stadium. Why isn't the threat of this happening enough for the Council/Government/other entities to get the money together to transform it into something more suitable for the vast majority of games played there? It'll cost millions to get any other ground together, why can't those millions go towards Sky Stadium surgery instead?
Is the idea that Sky Stadium will be dismantled and the land used for something else if/when this theoretical alternative rectangular ground is realised?
The alternative stadium ideas to Sky ain't being mooted by Govt or Council, it's wishful thinking punters on here or some rumour Welnix/Wgtn Rugby will build their own little ground.
Govt and Council have other expenditure priorities and just want things to continue as they are, for another 30 odd years.
As above it's either an earthquake, or from left field FIFA money as NZ gets approved as a mens World Cup co host - that sees any large spend on Sky (and it would be minimum $50M as a wild guess) for a partial knockdown and re configure. I mean due to it being an oval, it might have to be a total knockdown. Te Kaha has cost $683M
