Wellington Phoenix Men

Coaching Angst - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

2374 replies · 72,193 views Locked
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
irnbru14 wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
Thing about that article is if Herbert had us playing very attacking football and winning/losing every other game 4-3 or 3-2 people would then say he is too cavallier in his approach and by ignoring the defensive aspects of the game is also holding the team back from truly flourishing.
 
Can't have it both ways.
 
Why take it to the other extreme, there is a balance between attack and defence, and sometime Ricki is more inclined to the defensive than the offensive.  At home I would like to see us achieve that bit more, it isn't a huge stepchange in mindset, it's just a small nudge to readress the balance of the way the team is set up and plays.
 
I don't want my nerves to have to deal with the Kevin Keegan score more than you school of football!!!
 
Fair point, but the article already takes it close to one extreme, almost suggesting as if we don't know the meaning of the word attacking football.
 
I'm not suggesting we play that Keegan way either, but merely pointing out that if that was the case the tone of the article would be similar, which to me indicates frustration at results as opposed strickly to the style of football played.
 
Ok, thats not how I read it, to me it reads of someone a bit frustrated with the way we are playing at the moment, don't think it's a call for goalkeeper and 10 up front! 
 
I think it's frustration at both, we can be very good when we acually do attack and play a quick passing style of football, if we could get that right for a whole game (or at least more than 50% of one!) then the results should follow (more often than not!).
 
Ricki is perhaps a more pragmatic coach who has the ideal that he would rather we didn't lose than try to go out and win a game.  That is where, IMHO,  he stifles our attacking edge, we should have taken all 3 points at the weekend but we didn't, we had them rattled in the first half when we attacked, yet for whatever reasons (players, coach, weather, pie's at halftime) we sat in more defensively that second half, even before Ifill went off injured, and didn't really try and kill the game off.
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
UberGunner wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
UberGunner wrote:
This is nearly as bad as the Arsenal fans fracturing into the AKB's  (Arsene knows best) versus the 'Wenger out, get someone who spends money" arguments that crop up every season.
Why do people assume Ricki isnt trying his best to make this club successful?
 
Who is assuming that?
 
Strange as it may be, sometimes someones 'best' just isn't good enough - we see it in football all the time.
then why do you assume that the players on the picth have no say in how they perform?
It doesnt always have to be the coaches fault. I think we played more defensivley on sunday not as a tactical approach but more in reaction to squandering possesion to the fury to easliy in the last 10 minutes. the players failed to hold on to the ball and gave the fury the chane to eqaulise. Ricki cant make every pass and tackle himself you know.
 
But he can change the set up during the second half when it was obvious Fury were getting a foothold in the game and we weren't creating much going forward.
changing the set up/positioning/tactical orders orders doesnt change the fact the ball wasnt sticking to a phoenix players boot and the passes werent finding anyone when coming out from the back. again how is that Rickis fault and not the individual players? In this sort of scenario most coachs will pull a team back as pushing forward wihtout possesion is asking to be picked apart.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
 
Fair point, but the article already takes it close to one extreme, almost suggesting as if we don't know the meaning of the word attacking football.
 
I'm not suggesting we play that Keegan way either, but merely pointing out that if that was the case the tone of the article would be similar, which to me indicates frustration at results as opposed strickly to the style of football played.
 
I would say you CAN have it both ways to an extent - away from these tactics are fine, and a point away will usually be an acceptable result (although I still think if we'd pushed it we could've won in Melbourne).
 
At home, I think we do need to be more cavalier, but we seem to play the exact same way home and away.
 
As irnbru says, there is a balance and no need to be TOO cavalier and end up losing 4-3 - I wouldn't mind winning a couple of games 4-3 though!
 
Ah you wan't Ricki to follow the Jim Duffy coaching model
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:
changing the set up/positioning/tactical orders orders doesnt change the fact the ball wasnt sticking to a phoenix players boot and the passes werent finding anyone when coming out from the back. again how is that Rickis fault and not the individual players? In this sort of scenario most coachs will pull a team back as pushing forward wihtout possesion is asking to be picked apart.
 
The players are by no means perfect as you suggest, but by the same token neither is Ricki.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
 
Fair point, but the article already takes it close to one extreme, almost suggesting as if we don't know the meaning of the word attacking football.
 
I'm not suggesting we play that Keegan way either, but merely pointing out that if that was the case the tone of the article would be similar, which to me indicates frustration at results as opposed strickly to the style of football played.
 
I would say you CAN have it both ways to an extent - away from these tactics are fine, and a point away will usually be an acceptable result (although I still think if we'd pushed it we could've won in Melbourne).
 
At home, I think we do need to be more cavalier, but we seem to play the exact same way home and away.
 
As irnbru says, there is a balance and no need to be TOO cavalier and end up losing 4-3 - I wouldn't mind winning a couple of games 4-3 though!
 
Ah you wan't Ricki to follow the Jim Duffy coaching model
 
 
More like the Alex Ferguson one I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
But the point of this thread is about aportioning blame, so are you know willing to concede that the teams faults are just that? the "teams" faults and not just Ricki's?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
UberGunner wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
UberGunner wrote:
This is nearly as bad as the Arsenal fans fracturing into the AKB's  (Arsene knows best) versus the 'Wenger out, get someone who spends money" arguments that crop up every season.
Why do people assume Ricki isnt trying his best to make this club successful?
 
Who is assuming that?
 
Strange as it may be, sometimes someones 'best' just isn't good enough - we see it in football all the time.
then why do you assume that the players on the picth have no say in how they perform?
It doesnt always have to be the coaches fault. I think we played more defensivley on sunday not as a tactical approach but more in reaction to squandering possesion to the fury to easliy in the last 10 minutes. the players failed to hold on to the ball and gave the fury the chane to eqaulise. Ricki cant make every pass and tackle himself you know.
 
But he can change the set up during the second half when it was obvious Fury were getting a foothold in the game and we weren't creating much going forward.
changing the set up/positioning/tactical orders orders doesnt change the fact the ball wasnt sticking to a phoenix players boot and the passes werent finding anyone when coming out from the back. again how is that Rickis fault and not the individual players? In this sort of scenario most coachs will pull a team back as pushing forward wihtout possesion is asking to be picked apart.
 
Coach needs to analyse what is going wrong and attempt to fix it.  We had the same issue for the majority of the 2nd half, and ok the injuries really didn't help and allow him to change it around much, but we didn't seem to be able to get any fluid play going other than a few breaks and half chances.
 
There should at least be a Plan B, where if Plan A isn't working then the players have some awareness of how to get back on the front foot.  Losing Ifill was a major blow however and we lost our main out ball from defence. 
irnbru142009-09-23 10:06:44
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think the problem is here is that we, in heneral, are making assumptions based on what we think we see. We see our team playing deep and it is assumed that the coaching staff have requested it, and yet it could well be the capt making the call onfield or even in the dressing room. We see the coach start the line up with 4 - 3 - 3, but moan when players like Ifill drift back to the mid, none of us know what Ricki actually says at half time, from what we see he plays a with a defensive mindset which has worked in that its kept us unbeated at home, a small tweek here and there and we could easily see a number of goals being scored, at this stage it looks like he doesn't have the right front man to complete his dream....who really knows.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:
But the point of this thread is about aportioning blame, so are you know willing to concede that the teams faults are just that? the "teams" faults and not just Ricki's?
 
As the manager, the buck has to stop with him at some point doesn't it?
 
I'm willing to concede the players are not completely blameless but Ricki signs these players, picks them to play, and tells them how he wants them to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
Ah you wan't Ricki to follow the Jim Duffy coaching model
 
Please God, NO!
 
(Any excuse to get a Thistle pic in, gratefully received)
 

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
theprof wrote:
I think the problem is here is that we, in heneral, are making assumptions based on what we think we see. We see our team playing deep and it is assumed that the coaching staff have requested it, and yet it could well be the capt making the call onfield or even in the dressing room. We see the coach start the line up with 4 - 3 - 3, but moan when players like Ifill drift back to the mid, none of us know what Ricki actually says at half time, from what we see he plays a with a defensive mindset which has worked in that its kept us unbeated at home, a small tweek here and there and we could easily see a number of goals being scored, at this stage it looks like he doesn't have the right front man to complete his dream....who really knows.
 
In that case the Captain should have a strip torn off him for not following the coaching instructions!!
 
For me, the bench at the weekend kinda summed it up, no striker on the bench for a home game is at least a little bit conservative!
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
UberGunner wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
UberGunner wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
UberGunner wrote:
This is nearly as bad as the Arsenal fans fracturing into the AKB's  (Arsene knows best) versus the 'Wenger out, get someone who spends money" arguments that crop up every season.
Why do people assume Ricki isnt trying his best to make this club successful?
 
Who is assuming that?
 
Strange as it may be, sometimes someones 'best' just isn't good enough - we see it in football all the time.
then why do you assume that the players on the pitch have no say in how they perform?
It doesn't always have to be the coaches fault. I think we played more defensively on Sunday not as a tactical approach but more in reaction to squandering possession to the fury to easily in the last 10 minutes. the players failed to hold on to the ball and gave the fury the chane to equalise. Ricki cant make every pass and tackle himself you know.
 
But he can change the set up during the second half when it was obvious Fury were getting a foothold in the game and we weren't creating much going forward.
changing the set up/positioning/tactical orders orders doesnt change the fact the ball wasnt sticking to a phoenix players boot and the passes werent finding anyone when coming out from the back. again how is that Rickis fault and not the individual players? In this sort of scenario most coachs will pull a team back as pushing forward wihtout possesion is asking to be picked apart.
 
Coach needs to analyse what is going wrong and attempt to fix it.  We had the same issue for the majority of the 2nd half, and ok the injuries really didn't help and allow him to change it around much, but we didn't seem to be able to get any fluid play going other than a few breaks and half chances.
 
 
again the players fault. it's not like he can call a player over give him a chat a suddenly he will stop making mistakes. If you watch him during a match he is constantly yelling instructions to his players, how they act on those instruction is out of Rickis hands until the final whistle and he can give the players a clip around the ear.
 
This weekend i think we will see a huge improvement from the players as i think the disappointment we are feeling at drawing in the last minute will be fuel in the fire in these players bellies.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
theprof wrote:
I think the problem is here is that we, in heneral, are making assumptions based on what we think we see. We see our team playing deep and it is assumed that the coaching staff have requested it, and yet it could well be the capt making the call onfield or even in the dressing room. We see the coach start the line up with 4 - 3 - 3, but moan when players like Ifill drift back to the mid, none of us know what Ricki actually says at half time, from what we see he plays a with a defensive mindset which has worked in that its kept us unbeated at home, a small tweek here and there and we could easily see a number of goals being scored, at this stage it looks like he doesn't have the right front man to complete his dream....who really knows.
 
Well unless Ricki comes out and says he's not setting up defensively and the players aren't listening to him (which is surely an issue in itself), then we can only draw conclusions from what we DO see - what other choice is there? Tell ourselves it's all going to be fine and then just accept it every time it doesn't work out?
 
Being unbeaten at home really doesn't mean THAT much if you're not winning - 2 wins is better than FIVE draws in terms of points!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:
[again the players fault. it's not like he can call a player over give him a chat a suddenly he will stop making mistakes. If you watch him during a match he is constantly yelling instructions to his players, how they act on those instruction is out of Rickis hands until the final whistle and he can give the players a clip around the ear.
 
This weekend i think we will see a huge improvement from the players as i think the disappointment we are feeling at drawing in the last minute will be fuel in the fire in these players bellies.
 
Well let's hope so - every week we get the interviews in the press from players saying they are going to do this and that - about time they walked the walk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Steve-O wrote:

I don't know if anyone has seen this article from the Dom Post today, but it basically sums up exactly what I have been saying...

 
"The reason the Wellington Phoenix are struggling this year is simple. Coach Ricki Herbert is so frightened of losing that he is strangling the life from his talented team.

Herbert is to football what Don Brash was to politics: an arch-conservative."

Suffice to say, I agree with the article 100%, maybe some more people might see my point since it's not just "angsty" Steve-O going on about it now? Or maybe not...

I don't agree with it at all, but it's a good article, and full credit to the DomPost for getting someone who actually knows a little bit about football to write about football rather than Millmow. 

 
Anything in particular you don't agree with Smithy? 
 
It's maybe a bit heavy at times (a bit scathing about Greenacre) but the sentiment is right, sounds like someone a bit frustrated who believes we should be doing better with the players we have, especially at home, and it is surely about time we got back to winning ways at the Westpac?
 
There is no relagation from this league so no real reason why we shouldn't have a more attacking edge to our team, at least in our home matches.  At least let us be entertained when at home, if it is exciting attacking football the fans will come to watch
 
The premise of it.
 
I was in Melbourne to witness us attacking for 90 minutes.
 
I was here the week before that when we went at them relentlessly for about 65 minutes, weathered a period, and then went hard at them again for 20.
 
And even this game just gone we went at them pretty hard for about 60 of the 90.
 
So I don't think the pundit is right, but he's had a go.
 
I actually agree with him almost completely about Greenacre, although I wouldn't have put it like that.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
 
For me, the bench at the weekend kinda summed it up, no striker on the bench for a home game is at least a little bit conservative!
 
Can't argue with that... with only three outfield players allowed to named, you would expect one each for a def, mid and forward. Having said that, do we have any other fit strikers? Costa, Chen?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
irnbru14 wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Steve-O wrote:

I don't know if anyone has seen this article from the Dom Post today, but it basically sums up exactly what I have been saying...

 
"The reason the Wellington Phoenix are struggling this year is simple. Coach Ricki Herbert is so frightened of losing that he is strangling the life from his talented team.

Herbert is to football what Don Brash was to politics: an arch-conservative."

Suffice to say, I agree with the article 100%, maybe some more people might see my point since it's not just "angsty" Steve-O going on about it now? Or maybe not...

I don't agree with it at all, but it's a good article, and full credit to the DomPost for getting someone who actually knows a little bit about football to write about football rather than Millmow. 

 
Anything in particular you don't agree with Smithy? 
 
It's maybe a bit heavy at times (a bit scathing about Greenacre) but the sentiment is right, sounds like someone a bit frustrated who believes we should be doing better with the players we have, especially at home, and it is surely about time we got back to winning ways at the Westpac?
 
There is no relagation from this league so no real reason why we shouldn't have a more attacking edge to our team, at least in our home matches.  At least let us be entertained when at home, if it is exciting attacking football the fans will come to watch
 
The premise of it.
 
I was in Melbourne to witness us attacking for 90 minutes.
 
I was here the week before that when we went at them relentlessly for about 65 minutes, weathered a period, and then went hard at them again for 20.
 
And even this game just gone we went at them pretty hard for about 60 of the 90.
 
So I don't think the pundit is right, but he's had a go.
 
I actually agree with him almost completely about Greenacre, although I wouldn't have put it like that.
 
And I was in Sydney and saw the reverse side of the equation...
 
I just want us to be a bit more positive going forward at home, like I have said before it's not a huge shift in thinking, just a wee nudge towards attacking intent.  Too often or not we still have 6 back in our half when our 4 from the "attacking group" are being outnumbered further up the pitch.
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i dont see how we're not positive...we play all the football and creating more chances than we ever have..how is that not positive football? Our formation means we have 3 up front when going forward,with ifill and bertos tracking back to defend...i dont see peoples issue with this.
 
To quote sydney game as proof that we are defensive is ridiculous. thats ONE bad game out of an entire season so far.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
 
And I was in Sydney and saw the reverse side of the equation...
 
I just want us to be a bit more positive going forward at home, like I have said before it's not a huge shift in thinking, just a wee nudge towards attacking intent.  Too often or not we still have 6 back in our half when our 4 from the "attacking group" are being outnumbered further up the pitch.
 
 
Not to mention the everybody back at corners routine - a favourite tactic of Alex Miller you might recall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
irnbru14 wrote:
Ah you wan't Ricki to follow the Jim Duffy coaching model
 
Please God, NO!
 
(Any excuse to get a Thistle pic in, gratefully received)
 
 
Arrghh! You bad person...will have nightmares now...
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
i dont see how we're not positive...we play all the football and creating more chances than we ever have..how is that not positive football? Our formation means we have 3 up front when going forward,with ifill and bertos tracking back to defend...i dont see peoples issue with this.
 
To quote sydney game as proof that we are defensive is ridiculous. thats ONE bad game out of an entire season so far.
 
Because we are only doing it for 45 minutes and not killing games off.
 
We don't have 3 up front when Greenacre is chasing lost causes by himself do we?
 
What about the Newcastle game? Did ok in the first half eventually, did nothing in the second half and paid for it, again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
irnbru14 wrote:
 
And I was in Sydney and saw the reverse side of the equation...
 
I just want us to be a bit more positive going forward at home, like I have said before it's not a huge shift in thinking, just a wee nudge towards attacking intent.  Too often or not we still have 6 back in our half when our 4 from the "attacking group" are being outnumbered further up the pitch.
 
 
Not to mention the everybody back at corners routine - a favourite tactic of Alex Miller you might recall
 
More nightmares, Duff Jimmy and ol Mogadon Miller on the same thread...I left Scotland to get away from that sort of thing...
 
You are just lucky nobody has mentioned Bobby Williamson yet...actually, good suggestion to replace Ricki perhaps
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Your definition of "did ok" is interesting. i think thats the issue here....

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
i dont see how we're not positive...we play all the football and creating more chances than we ever have..how is that not positive football? Our formation means we have 3 up front when going forward,with ifill and bertos tracking back to defend...i dont see peoples issue with this.
 
To quote sydney game as proof that we are defensive is ridiculous. thats ONE bad game out of an entire season so far.
 
Well someone used the Melbourne game to show we attacked full on for one game this season, just suggesting that is cancelled out by the defensive nature of our performace in Sydney...
 
Said before, I think we stretch as a team, the forwards end up in the opposition box while the defenders and central midfield and miles back, we should be trying to push up as a unit.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
Your definition of "did ok" is interesting. i think thats the issue here....
 
My definition of 'did ok' in that game is we were 2-0 down early, not playing great, but managed to get in at the break back at 2-2 by scoring the 2 chances we got.
 
Second half, did not do ok, because we created nothing and then lost a late goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So what happened to all the posts that were on the earlier thread about the article that appears to have been merged or nuked?
 
Im not sure I agree with merging topics as whilst I would comment under the original thread as supporting or not supporting the article I might not comment if it is an angst thread or sack ricki...which can be too emotive.

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You mean the article that is under news and discussion  ?

This forum software won't let me merge topics - stupid software - so if it's more than four or five posts it would just be closed.
Hard News2009-09-23 14:24:09

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
 
I was in Melbourne to witness us attacking for 90 minutes.
 
I was here the week before that when we went at them relentlessly for about 65 minutes, weathered a period, and then went hard at them again for 20.
 
And even this game just gone we went at them pretty hard for about 60 of the 90.
 
So I don't think the pundit is right, but he's had a go.
 
I actually agree with him almost completely about Greenacre, although I wouldn't have put it like that.


That suggests we are not good enough to win those games, even with the right intent.  Which is why, despite protests, there's a bunch looking for what needs to change.

Give Greeny another striker to work off, leave Bertos wide, put Ifill wide and make Brown work his butt off goin back and forwards till he drops and then give Caceres a go, and Daniel or Troy if one of the wide guys is tiring.  Watching 1-1 draws may seem good to you guys used to the drivel I watched briefly from the Kingz, but it aint going to build a strong fan base by adding those that just want to watch good quality skillful sport.
mjp22009-09-23 14:57:16
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Thanks mjp2 - I like it when I am quoted.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Thanks mjp2 - I like it when I am quoted.


there ya go, doin it again to make you happy.

Dunno what happened there, but edited in some stuff I just know you'll love.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
mjp2 wrote:
Smithy wrote:
 
I was in Melbourne to witness us attacking for 90 minutes.
 
I was here the week before that when we went at them relentlessly for about 65 minutes, weathered a period, and then went hard at them again for 20.
 
And even this game just gone we went at them pretty hard for about 60 of the 90.
 
So I don't think the pundit is right, but he's had a go.
 
I actually agree with him almost completely about Greenacre, although I wouldn't have put it like that.


That suggests we are not good enough to win those games, even with the right intent.  Which is why, despite protests, there's a bunch looking for what needs to change.

Give Greeny another striker to work off, leave Bertos wide, put Ifill wide and make Brown work his but off goin back and forwards till he drops and then give Caceres a go, and Daniel or Troy if one of the wide guys is tiring.  Watching 1-1 draws may seem good to you guys used to the drivel I watched briefly from the Kingz, but it aint going to build a strong fan base by adding those that just want to watch good quality skillful sport.
Again,you miss the fact that things are working now  finishing CANNOT be fixed by formation. the argument that if ifill was up front then we'd have more strikers up there which would make our finishing better makes no sense whatsoever. Bertos and ifill are always either in the box or making the crosses anyway,and we never have a problem of anyone not being in the box.
 
it only takes one person to finish a chance,so no matter how many you put up there,it wont change things. Everyone is just frustrated by bad luck,if the chances are coming,then so will the goals.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah that about says it all 2ndbest. How does one try to make someone with no logic see sense.
 
I give up

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I said to play Ifill wide, where he spends most of the game in any case and which allows him to come central in the same way Bertos does.  So I expect his midfield industry and delivery to stil be there for us. 

I watch the game and it seems to me that half our problem is we have five midfielders getting in each others way when we get defensive and then there is no space and no-one to play forward to.  On Sunday in the second half we constantly got crowded on one side of the field playing deeper and deeper. 

And as I've said before, I don't see Brown, Ferrante, Daniel, Bertos putting in the number of goals we need or complementing Greenacre in any new way that sees him score more goals.  Face it, our current midfield are not going to get better at putting it in the net.  We've seen two seasons of what they can (and can't) do.  So you either believe we've been "unlucky" for two seasons with those guys or you try something different.

      Bertos    Brown  Lia     Ifill
        Costa/Chen  Greenacre
Just my humble opinion, and in reality I hope you are right and it all falls into place, because it doesn't look like Ricki is going to change anything.
mjp22009-09-23 15:20:59
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cool so now with your new formation, we miss ifill up front and replace him with 2 players that cant even make the bench?
 
insane.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
Herbert rejects criticism over Phoenix attack
 
Wellington Phoenix coach Ricki Herbert has rejected claims he has been playing a defensively focused side in the A-League soccer competition.

A heart-breaking last-minute draw to North Queensland at the weekend on top of a season record of one win, two losses and three other draws, has sparked questions about why Wellington is struggling to seal games.

Herbert said the results were not down to his side playing overly defensively, rather it was a matter of getting the balls into the back of the net.

"I think it's about taking some of those chances now. We've created over 38 chances in the last three games, we're the form-team in the league as far as creating chances out of all the 10 teams, so we're doing things right," Herbert said today.

"We could've won three or four nil on the weekend, we could've put Adelaide to the sword, and beaten Melbourne as well. I think we're a very good attacking side at the moment, I think the stats show that."

His comments follow criticism from former national league player Paul Thompson, who said Herbert's caution and over-riding defensive instincts were blunting the team's chances.

"They are overloaded with adequate, one-paced, defensive-minded central midfielders who toil away to the coach's instructions but struggle to unlock defences," Thompson said.

"You have to feel sorry for Chris Greenacre, the personification of the team's dour approached wrapped in a No 9 shirt. He is neither accomplished in the air nor especially skilful and lacks pace and physicality. Yet Herbert plays him as a sole striker."

Herbert denied playing a defensive formation.

"We're playing three strikers up front. (Paul) Ifill, (Chris) Greenacre and (Daniel) Cortes are the front three," Herbert said.

Greenacre also disagreed with the suggestion the team were too heavy on defence.

"If you look at (Sunday's) game, I think we had about 14 attempts on goal so if that's being defensively minded I don't know what attacking-minded is," he said.

" At times I'm getting isolated, but at times I may be the only option if we're under pressure. We're trying to work hard to get people around me and hopefully give a little more support, but, apart from that, I don't think feel that we're defensive-minded."

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/news/article/-/6092128/herbert-rejects-criticism-phoenix-attack

Scottishbhoy2009-09-23 15:30:05

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
as has been said many times in this thread, striking success cannot and will not be fixed witha formation change, we are making plenty of chances right now! we simply have to get our guys who are in the box, like Daniel, greenacre, ifill, bertos, brwon and co to hit the goal instead of the keeper and wide.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"We're playing three strikers up front. (Paul) Ifill, (Chris) Greenacre and (Daniel) Cortes are the front three," Herbert said.

So Bertos plays where?

It seems to me we play one player up front and three behind him.

But I guess if Ricki says otherwise I must be wrong.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
mjp2 wrote:
"We're playing three strikers up front. (Paul) Ifill, (Chris) Greenacre and (Daniel) Cortes are the front three," Herbert said.

So Bertos plays where?

It seems to me we play one player up front and three behind him.

But I guess if Ricki says otherwise I must be wrong.
 
 

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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