I'm telling you, WelNix are holding on until the club is worth real money.
really? so why did they turn down the $7.5 million that was offered to them recently?
say what you like about the Welnix, their main aim, stated at the time they took over, was to keep a professional football side in Wellington and I doubt that has changed at all
https://thejourneyfan.blogspot.co.nz/
New Zealand Football Media Association Website of the year 2015 & 2016
I'm telling you, WelNix are holding on until the club is worth real money.
really? so why did they turn down the $7.5 million that was offered to them recently?
say what you like about the Welnix, their main aim, stated at the time they took over, was to keep a professional football side in Wellington and I doubt that has changed at all
2.7.5 m is not even the current going rate for an A League Club, Brisbane turned down a 10m bid for the club see here
3. What makes you so certain that their main aim is to keep a professional football side in Wellington? You are prepared to believe what they say on that occasion despite being lied to by them a number of times since. If they were that determined, then I doubt they would be taking the team to Auckland and Canberra, if their aim is as you stated, surely they'd just suck it up and keep the games in Wellington and build their local fan base rather than kicking them in the teeth as and when its suits them to.
I acknowledge this may a moot point, but I reckon our financial competence will see us survive a couple of rounds of A league expansion in 2020 and 2022, after which ProRel will not be far away - 2024?
ProRel will provide plenty of incentive to invest, but the reality is that the clubs and FFA need to sort out their 'control of the game/revenue' shark fight before anything much can change. I believe that somehow it will happen; independent league or, more likely, some sort of compromise.
At that point, we need better quality football management at the club (where is the next Tony Pignata?). However imagine the difference a savvy, experienced football administrator would bring to the party right now. If only long term tenure could be secured.
Feeling glass half full this morning.
I'd be surprised if we see pro and relegation within the next 20 years. It's not Australian, they can't afford it, and they'd most likely have to renegotiate every license.
100% not true.
You're from Napier and I'd guess you've never talked to people from welnix so it's like to know where you got this certainty from.
I acknowledge this may a moot point, but I reckon our financial competence will see us survive a couple of rounds of A league expansion in 2020 and 2022, after which ProRel will not be far away - 2024?
ProRel will provide plenty of incentive to invest, but the reality is that the clubs and FFA need to sort out their 'control of the game/revenue' shark fight before anything much can change. I believe that somehow it will happen; independent league or, more likely, some sort of compromise.
At that point, we need better quality football management at the club (where is the next Tony Pignata?). However imagine the difference a savvy, experienced football administrator would bring to the party right now. If only long term tenure could be secured.
Feeling glass half full this morning.
I'd be surprised if we see pro and relegation within the next 20 years. It's not Australian, they can't afford it, and they'd most likely have to renegotiate every license.
I acknowledge this may a moot point, but I reckon our financial competence will see us survive a couple of rounds of A league expansion in 2020 and 2022, after which ProRel will not be far away - 2024?
ProRel will provide plenty of incentive to invest, but the reality is that the clubs and FFA need to sort out their 'control of the game/revenue' shark fight before anything much can change. I believe that somehow it will happen; independent league or, more likely, some sort of compromise.
At that point, we need better quality football management at the club (where is the next Tony Pignata?). However imagine the difference a savvy, experienced football administrator would bring to the party right now. If only long term tenure could be secured.
Feeling glass half full this morning.
I'd be surprised if we see pro and relegation within the next 20 years. It's not Australian, they can't afford it, and they'd most likely have to renegotiate every license.
That's why I said I'd be surprised rather than 100% sure...
Ok, there are three claims being made by @Napier, @Ryan and @Journey here and I'd love to hear more about each claim so I can form an opinion myself. I'd never heard that there was an offer, so I'd love to know more about that
My starting point is a relatively high opinion of our owners, and that we have one of the best ownership groups in the league and that they are aware of their value to the league.
My opinion is based on conjecture, and too much so for my liking. So, I'd love to know more and the three of you seem to be much better informed than me, so can I/we please have some sources/reading/info to back up your claims?
To me, the motivation of the owners is the key to our existence.
Ok, there are three claims being made by @Napier, @Ryan and @Journey here and I'd love to hear more about each claim so I can form an opinion myself. I'd never heard that there was an offer, so I'd love to know more about that
My starting point is a relatively high opinion of our owners, and that we have one of the best ownership groups in the league and that they are aware of their value to the league.
My opinion is based on conjecture, and too much so for my liking. So, I'd love to know more and the three of you seem to be much better informed than me, so can I/we please have some sources/reading/info to back up your claims?
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
I acknowledge this may a moot point, but I reckon our financial competence will see us survive a couple of rounds of A league expansion in 2020 and 2022, after which ProRel will not be far away - 2024?
ProRel will provide plenty of incentive to invest, but the reality is that the clubs and FFA need to sort out their 'control of the game/revenue' shark fight before anything much can change. I believe that somehow it will happen; independent league or, more likely, some sort of compromise.
At that point, we need better quality football management at the club (where is the next Tony Pignata?). However imagine the difference a savvy, experienced football administrator would bring to the party right now. If only long term tenure could be secured.
Feeling glass half full this morning.
I'd be surprised if we see pro and relegation within the next 20 years. It's not Australian, they can't afford it, and they'd most likely have to renegotiate every license.
That's why I said I'd be surprised rather than 100% sure...
https://www.footballnationradio.com/daily-news/peop...
“Everyone would like one day to have a robust second
division which could perhaps one day lead to promotion and relegation,”
Gallop said.
“Affordability is a big issue around that.
"The investment owners have made in the A-League and will continue to make,have to be at the forefront of our thinking.”
https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2018/03/01...
"People have to accept that affordability is a big issue," he told Football Nation Radio.
"Our existing owners would like more money.
"We've been able to increase their grants to a certain extent over the last few years ... (that) has meant the ability to actually add teams hasn't been easily apparent or doable.
"People don't like to hear it but affordability is unfortunately just part and parcel of what we do.
"We have to recognise that we're in a competitive market ... affordability is going to hold back some of the things people want to see happen quickly."
i have always guessed the a 2nd division would just be one big giant money drain
i mean if they can't fund one league with tv and sponsorship money, how can they fund 2? especially if bugger all people will be watching the 2nd?
unless of course the FFA are draining much much more money from the a-league than we first thought :-)
I acknowledge this may a moot point, but I reckon our financial competence will see us survive a couple of rounds of A league expansion in 2020 and 2022, after which ProRel will not be far away - 2024?
ProRel will provide plenty of incentive to invest, but the reality is that the clubs and FFA need to sort out their 'control of the game/revenue' shark fight before anything much can change. I believe that somehow it will happen; independent league or, more likely, some sort of compromise.
At that point, we need better quality football management at the club (where is the next Tony Pignata?). However imagine the difference a savvy, experienced football administrator would bring to the party right now. If only long term tenure could be secured.
Feeling glass half full this morning.
I'd be surprised if we see pro and relegation within the next 20 years. It's not Australian, they can't afford it, and they'd most likely have to renegotiate every license.
On other side of coin:
I think we'll see it by the the time current young Nix players are in their football prime.
ProRel is football.
There is more to football in Australia than the A league clubs.
With a closed shop league run by FFA, finances are completely distorted.
Can we just clear up one common misconception though: the 20 years licences expressly allow for the introduction of ProRel, "the licenses granted to A-League clubs expressly provide that the licencee club's continued participation in the A-League is subject to any promotion and relegation system implemented by FFA"
If a club chooses not to participate in a league given notice of ProRel, that speaks volumes about the club. Plenty ready to step in.
Kotahitanga. We are one.
chucking money down a drain in the faint hope that the Phoenix one day becomes worth something in the future seems like one of the worst business investment ideas I’ve ever heard...
Ok, there are three claims being made by @Napier, @Ryan and @Journey here and I'd love to hear more about each claim so I can form an opinion myself. I'd never heard that there was an offer, so I'd love to know more about that
My starting point is a relatively high opinion of our owners, and that we have one of the best ownership groups in the league and that they are aware of their value to the league.
My opinion is based on conjecture, and too much so for my liking. So, I'd love to know more and the three of you seem to be much better informed than me, so can I/we please have some sources/reading/info to back up your claims?
To me, the motivation of the owners is the key to our existence.
chucking money down a drain in the faint hope that the Phoenix one day becomes worth something in the future seems like one of the worst business investment ideas I’ve ever heard...
No, because most of these things don't have recurring losses to run them. And they're not going to buy a failing business if they don't think they can make it profitable.
Getting a return from the Phoenix would be a massive gamble, you lose millions every year on a business that will never make a return on investment (in fact the stated goal is to break even), you don't even own the business just the debts as the FFA has shown they actually own the license, the branding, and the IP. So you're gambling on the fact that at some point FIFA will step in and tell the FFA that WelNix actually own the license and the right to sell it, and that someone want's to buy it for more than the millions that you've sunk into it.
Investors want a 20x return on something speculative and risky and the Phoenix are definitely that, so for every million WelNix loses on the Nix they'll be looking to recoup twenty million otherwise it's not worth the risk.
I know they aren't in this to make a profit because I've talked to a member of WelNix about the Phoenix on a number of occasions and he said it was altruistic. And the stated goal by WelNix from the start was to keep assets in Wellington and grow the team so that it can support itself in the process.
Also, Lloyd Morrison was the most passionate in the ownership group yet they survived him passing away even though they've had countless opportunities to get out.
but offered no substanial evidence of any $7.5m offer.
sorry
Info from the covert agent was that the Southern Expansion tried to buy the Phoenix for more than seven million but WelNix turned them down, they also were in negotiations with CCM according to the same article. It was also reported by a number of other outlets, who knows how true it was.
I'm telling you, WelNix are holding on until the club is worth real money.
really? so why did they turn down the $7.5 million that was offered to them recently?
say what you like about the Welnix, their main aim, stated at the time they took over, was to keep a professional football side in Wellington and I doubt that has changed at all
2.7.5 m is not even the current going rate for an A League Club, Brisbane turned down a 10m bid for the club see here
3. What makes you so certain that their main aim is to keep a professional football side in Wellington? You are prepared to believe what they say on that occasion despite being lied to by them a number of times since. If they were that determined, then I doubt they would be taking the team to Auckland and Canberra, if their aim is as you stated, surely they'd just suck it up and keep the games in Wellington and build their local fan base rather than kicking them in the teeth as and when its suits them to.
1 - proof would be great, but a private business like the southern consortium isn't going to show you their offer document (if there was one, it could have been a verbal discussion to see if there was any point pursing it). It was reported in several places at the time
2 - they were bidding for the licence not the club - and not all clubs are the same, Melbourne Victory would get a higher price than us or CCM as they have a much bigger fan base
3 - If Welnix didn't want to keep a professional side in Wellington, why didn't they bail when the licence issue came up?
When have Welnix lied to us? they may not have communicated things well or not said anything when they probably should have or done things we don't like, but as far as I'm aware they have never lied
https://thejourneyfan.blogspot.co.nz/
New Zealand Football Media Association Website of the year 2015 & 2016
what is southern expansion?
It's a bid to bring an A-League team to South Sydney, apparently they've got a lot of money behind them and are looking to build a new stadium. But, if the league expands by two teams then one would likely be them.
what is southern expansion?
It's a bid to bring an A-League team to South Sydney, apparently they've got a lot of money behind them and are looking to build a new stadium. But, if the league expands by two teams then one would likely be them.
Combination of private business money and a non-financial support of the relevant shire authorities, can't remember which (might have been Sutherland, or I could be confusing them with the Cronulla Riots YF meme, as Cronulla is in Sutherland Shire)
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
Re the talk of the general health of the A-League, P & R over the previous couple of pages. Through I would share a couple of interesting articles from last week.
Tony Tannous IMO the best Football writer in Australia, has written a very very very long and detailed article on the NPL. He has been around for a long time even pre hal and early Hal he wrote the ''round ball analysis" blog.
https://footballtoday.news/features/enter-the-npl
IMO its a brilliant article and shows since the introduction of the FFA cup and with FFA management getting lost in control issues the NPL is powering away.... they stream many of their matches and I have watched quite a few..... This article is a good .. if not a long read ... but if you wanta know about how the NPL is growing quite quickly, its a very good read.
One bit that stood out from the article for me anyway was this.
"""" A player good enough to perhaps fill a squad position and maybe earn $70,000 or $80,000 in the A-League is happy enough earning anywhere between $1,500 and $3,500 a week in the NPL, where they train three nights a week.
Combine it with running a business, or part time work, and they’re suddenly earning double what they would as ‘a professional’, and setting themselves up for life after football.""""
Another artice worth reading is from Rabieh Karyem who is the head of AAFC i.e the 110 clubs wanting to form a second division and introduce P & R.
https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/02/26/aafc-what-we-...
Taking part of his article he wrotre.
""All of us at AAFC would like to see promotion and relegation.
We have a target of 2024 but if that’s not feasible, it’s not feasible. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have it as an aspiration. And it certainly doesn’t mean Australian football shouldn’t aim to comply with FIFA Statutes on this, and other, issues."""
Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei
chucking money down a drain in the faint hope that the Phoenix one day becomes worth something in the future seems like one of the worst business investment ideas I’ve ever heard...
No, because most of these things don't have recurring losses to run them. And they're not going to buy a failing business if they don't think they can make it profitable.
Getting a return from the Phoenix would be a massive gamble, you lose millions every year on a business that will never make a return on investment (in fact the stated goal is to break even), you don't even own the business just the debts as the FFA has shown they actually own the license, the branding, and the IP. So you're gambling on the fact that at some point FIFA will step in and tell the FFA that WelNix actually own the license and the right to sell it, and that someone want's to buy it for more than the millions that you've sunk into it.
Investors want a 20x return on something speculative and risky and the Phoenix are definitely that, so for every million WelNix loses on the Nix they'll be looking to recoup twenty million otherwise it's not worth the risk.
I know they aren't in this to make a profit because I've talked to a member of WelNix about the Phoenix on a number of occasions and he said it was altruistic. And the stated goal by WelNix from the start was to keep assets in Wellington and grow the team so that it can support itself in the process.
Also, Lloyd Morrison was the most passionate in the ownership group yet they survived him passing away even though they've had countless opportunities to get out.
chucking money down a drain in the faint hope that the Phoenix one day becomes worth something in the future seems like one of the worst business investment ideas I’ve ever heard...
No, because most of these things don't have recurring losses to run them. And they're not going to buy a failing business if they don't think they can make it profitable.
Getting a return from the Phoenix would be a massive gamble, you lose millions every year on a business that will never make a return on investment (in fact the stated goal is to break even), you don't even own the business just the debts as the FFA has shown they actually own the license, the branding, and the IP. So you're gambling on the fact that at some point FIFA will step in and tell the FFA that WelNix actually own the license and the right to sell it, and that someone want's to buy it for more than the millions that you've sunk into it.
Investors want a 20x return on something speculative and risky and the Phoenix are definitely that, so for every million WelNix loses on the Nix they'll be looking to recoup twenty million otherwise it's not worth the risk.
I know they aren't in this to make a profit because I've talked to a member of WelNix about the Phoenix on a number of occasions and he said it was altruistic. And the stated goal by WelNix from the start was to keep assets in Wellington and grow the team so that it can support itself in the process.
Also, Lloyd Morrison was the most passionate in the ownership group yet they survived him passing away even though they've had countless opportunities to get out.
Did you even read the sentence that you highlighted?
How on earth do you think the Phoenix are going to be worth anything let alone a profit that makes the risk worthwhile? You're discounting what WelNix have said both in the press and to people in private and are offering absolutely no evidence on the other side...
Re the talk of the general health of the A-League, P & R over the previous couple of pages. Through I would share a couple of interesting articles from last week.
Tony Tannous IMO the best Football writer in Australia, has written a very very very long and detailed article on the NPL. He has been around for a long time even pre hal and early Hal he wrote the ''round ball analysis" blog.
https://footballtoday.news/features/enter-the-npl
IMO its a brilliant article and shows since the introduction of the FFA cup and with FFA management getting lost in control issues the NPL is powering away.... they stream many of their matches and I have watched quite a few..... This article is a good .. if not a long read ... but if you wanta know about how the NPL is growing quite quickly, its a very good read.
One bit that stood out from the article for me anyway was this.
"""" A player good enough to perhaps fill a squad position and maybe earn $70,000 or $80,000 in the A-League is happy enough earning anywhere between $1,500 and $3,500 a week in the NPL, where they train three nights a week.
Combine it with running a business, or part time work, and they’re suddenly earning double what they would as ‘a professional’, and setting themselves up for life after football.""""
Another artice worth reading is from Rabieh Karyem who is the head of AAFC i.e the 110 clubs wanting to form a second division and introduce P & R.
https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/02/26/aafc-what-we-...
Taking part of his article he wrotre.
""All of us at AAFC would like to see promotion and relegation.
We have a target of 2024 but if that’s not feasible, it’s not feasible. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have it as an aspiration. And it certainly doesn’t mean Australian football shouldn’t aim to comply with FIFA Statutes on this, and other, issues."""
Cheers mate, awesome
chucking money down a drain in the faint hope that the Phoenix one day becomes worth something in the future seems like one of the worst business investment ideas I’ve ever heard...
No, because most of these things don't have recurring losses to run them. And they're not going to buy a failing business if they don't think they can make it profitable.
Getting a return from the Phoenix would be a massive gamble, you lose millions every year on a business that will never make a return on investment (in fact the stated goal is to break even), you don't even own the business just the debts as the FFA has shown they actually own the license, the branding, and the IP. So you're gambling on the fact that at some point FIFA will step in and tell the FFA that WelNix actually own the license and the right to sell it, and that someone want's to buy it for more than the millions that you've sunk into it.
Investors want a 20x return on something speculative and risky and the Phoenix are definitely that, so for every million WelNix loses on the Nix they'll be looking to recoup twenty million otherwise it's not worth the risk.
I know they aren't in this to make a profit because I've talked to a member of WelNix about the Phoenix on a number of occasions and he said it was altruistic. And the stated goal by WelNix from the start was to keep assets in Wellington and grow the team so that it can support itself in the process.
Also, Lloyd Morrison was the most passionate in the ownership group yet they survived him passing away even though they've had countless opportunities to get out.
Did you even read the sentence that you highlighted?
How on earth do you think the Phoenix are going to be worth anything let alone a profit that makes the risk worthwhile? You're discounting what WelNix have said both in the press and to people in private and are offering absolutely no evidence on the other side...
Yeah, you can't offer any evidence to support your 100% assertion even though there's plenty of evidence against it, so the best argument is to blanketly dismiss...
Adelaide United sold to foreign owners. Will Welnix be next to sell?.
https://www.a-league.com.au/news/adelaide-united-changes-ownership
Mr Positive
This topic is locked.
