Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 2)

In my opinion your positivity/negativity makes no difference a lot of the time because most comments you make also have a dig attached at someone who either disagreed with you, or was wrong about something. Sometimes your mandate appears to be to call out someone, anyone, at any opportunity.

And yes I realise the irony in this post!

Having said that, I agree with a lot of your ideals, and I do enjoy your contribution to the forums - in particular I like that you fight the good fight against sexism, racism and inequality in general. 

Steve-o is actually alright in the flesh. He's also taken a chill pill

does the licence extension provide the impetus to relook at the stadium or do we read between the lines and assume Wellington City Council have said they'll drop the rent so that Wellnix can use that on players, building the national brand etc. I thought the Hutt Rec games showed the way forward in terms of improving the atmosphere and TV product.

Gallop was pretty vocal about building a national brand and this probably will help Wel Nix lift the average crowd numbers to $10k if they take games to AKL, Chch and Hamilton. 

Great news, stark contrast to NZF. I just enjoy how calm Rob Morrison has been. This has rubbed off on Merrick. The organisation should be congratulated on not just achieving this BUT the manner in which they did this. 

Seems like their immediate ambitions are a new training ground with better facilities. They said something like state of the art and best in the A-League, but there are some pretty good facilities in Australia so I doubt it.

Oh, so we can get Marco back?

Christ you see??? you see????

Marco left as him and his dad had a very clear plan.  At the time Melbourne had much better training/coaching facilities according to Marco's dad. The plan was a year or two at Melbourne then possibly a South American club, then interstellar glory.

What is the issue with improving the infrastructure? We are never going to be able to throw money at the big players looking for a nice gig at the end of their playing career like the Sydney clubs so what else do we do?

Remember how impressed Ifill was with the club's set up? What is wrong with improving that?

Erm, I was expecting a punch line here Fortean but didn't find one.

She was obviously joking. Unravel your panties.

Ahh Dolores does humor ,I will study this.

Sorry, but call me a dummy as I don't get it. Sky are the only channel interested in the rights. No free to air tv company that is run to make a profit, is interested in the slightest - nor should they be. So Sky bid against no one and get the best deal for themselves, as they should and are perfectly entitled to do. 

They are running a business here and must think their own "metrics" as well. Very few people watch A-League in NZ so we are lucky to have all matches shown. I doubt if any profit is made at all by Sky tv to show Nix games. 

So if the price to Sky goes up for whatever reason, if I was running the show at Sky, I'd probably have to say no. 

I don't get it when there are comments about making them pay more, or the crazy comments about putting the Nix on Free to Air TV. They aren't thought out. 

So the new deal says we are to improve tv ratings and bring in more revenue from TV rights. Short of tying people down and putting toothpicks in their eyelids, what sort of magic can possibly be weaved?

I see one answer - more games away from home, which builds up a wider fan base. Any others?

Edit: I have another - win the league, possibly more than once. We have 4 years

Rob hinted that online channels were interested. He also said that sky was happy with us and our growth is pretty much running parallel to the warriors when they were the same age.

If they truely believe this (Sky) then they should be quite sympathetic in coughing up a better TV package that will appease all concerned. Hell I might even take up Sky Sports again.

Sources required for your claims.

How do you know sky is the only interested party?

Why are comments about free to air not thought out?
Have you thought out why it works in Aus?  Why wouldn't that potentially work here?
Why do online services not offer a good alternative?  Or good option in conjunction?
Sky has the worst paid content streaming I have experienced so if they went online elsewhere I'd sub in a heartbeat

Of course sky is running a business.  You claim if they asked for more you would say no if you ran sky.
Does that mean you know how much sky makes from the Nix and what they pay?
How do those numbers stack up against other sports? Be specific please.

You're one question about what can they do?
Make the brand more appealing.
The NRL, warriors and Sky all worked together to make it the juggernaut it is today.  The Nix may never match league but if done right they can still be huge

How would more games elsewhere help?  Please use specifics based on how it has worked in the past

Really don't think Warriors is a good analogy. South Auckland is the natural talent rainforest that all NRL clubs pharm. The Warriors will always have a healthy crop to harvest because mother nature has provided such rich growing matter. The cycle is just that - local grown heroes perpetuate dreams and aspirations in little kids. Uniquely, whether the Warriors are a success on the field or not is not even critical - because their backyard will always be critical to the whole of the NRL. All parties, broadcasters included, know this.

NZ football however is not critical to the health of the A league - because we don't produce the talent pool (league and rugby do, and to a lesser extent so do netball and basketball).

I hope Rob's hurdles are indeed easily cleared because we need ten years to create local grown heroes - who succeed in the A league (ie play for Nix and perhaps ACFC down the track because one pro club surely can't offer opportunities to all aspiring NZ football players), - to build any sort of wide following for the A league in NZ.

By the way, I'm not holding my breath for NZF or Andy Martin to "re-position football".

I love Kiwis making a fist of it in further flung leagues but they don't boost A league hurdles - until they want to come home. We need success in the A league for media-casters to get on board - for them it's merely a numbers of eyeballs games, the subject matter of the content is irrelevant (exhibit A..My kitchen rules and every other reality show etc). It's up to Rob and Ernie now... we need success.

While viewer numbers for the Phoenix are low I'd wager each viewer is more valuable to sky than your average warriors supporter because of it being a different demographic to most of their content with limited cross pollination with rugby in comparison. I.e. these are customers which primarily have sky for the nix and would leave without them, whereas warriors supporters would probably still keep it for the crugby content.

The NRL is also the premier rugby league competition in the world, whereas the A League faces a massive cultural cringe not just from the general public but from a lot of local football fans too. Eurosnobs are everywhere. Funnily enough in my experience actual Europeans who move here don't have snobbery over the A League, it's kiwis who do.  

Anyway, breaking down that barrier would help I think. Not sure how though - the attitude starts with the media I think. Maybe if A League games were on TV One for instance, then One News would have a vested interest in being more positive about the comp in general and the Nix in particular.

You mean old expats that still get off on dreams of players from the 60s and 70s and criticism players of today because they are comparing them and expect the A League to be at least EPL standards?

Yep met plenty of them in the last few years.

Don't mean to be depressing but that isn't exactly a sound strategy. On average we should win the league once every 10 years, but further to that with the stupid amount of money Manchester city are pumping into Melbourne heart, the endless marquees (and free players, see Carney) the FFA give the likes of victory and Sydney, I'd stretch that out to once every 20 years. 

Therefore relying on us to win the league to meet metrics is hardly a reliable strategy. Even then, is there proof that would even boost crowds? Id say it temporarily would as we make the run toward the end of that season at the very least, but beyond that? Did CCMs crowds improve in the seasons after they won? How about the jets? 

The thing is that the a league is a good league and not miles away from the premier league, at that level the difference between a premier league player and an a league player comes down to small percentages. Half a step quicker, a fraction of a second faster at making a decision, releasing a pass sightly earlier, etc.

We might not have the money of the Sydney or Melbourne teams (where are they all on the ladder again?) But we have other advantageous that we haven't exploited yet. The main one is we have a monopoly over kiwi players. That means we should be able to get the best of a pool of five million for under market value, whereas every team including us has to share a population of under two million each and compete for their services in a free market, driving up the price. So our base squad should be of higher quality at a reduced price.

We don't need to win the title every year but we should be pushing for it every three.

Thanks Conan, this recognition is much appreciated.

Now, now.....  Conan Troutman clearly said "Europeans". He did not say "old expat Brits". 

Judging by the contortions Cameron has been performing lately (ahead of the June poll on UK in the EU), this distinction is now greater than ever :-)

See it just shows CT while you have posted this,i have found the opposite to be true in that they cant be bothered with A league because it isnt as good as what they are used to.

"Funnily enough in my experience actual Europeans who move here don't have snobbery over the A League, it's kiwis who do".

While i reluctantly agree that they may need to take some games away as long as you continue to keep the Phoenix away from home for extended periods i just cant see how you can expect to build up crowds.End of the day they want crowds then team is going to have to perform consistentlyand try and stay in the race for the title longer they they have managed in recent seasons. 

Interesting. I've known a bunch of young German guys who were here studying here and got season tickets, plus I've chatted to guys from a few other Euro countries (Holland, Finland, Spain off the top of my head. Yes, and the UK ;) ) who all followed the Nix to some extent and none of them made disparaging comments about the quality.

The people I have met who act like watching the A League is beneath them have been kiwis, a lot of young guys who play football on Saturdays, and FIFA on the PlayStation/Xbox, who have a EPL team they follow, but who scoff at the A League and the Nix. I've always figured that people from Europe understand following a team and a league because of where you live, and are used to a wider range of football, whereas young kiwi lads only see EPL and Champions League games occasionally and feel like football is all about superstars and highlights reels.

Maybe it's a demographic thing. I'm in my early 30s. Maybe in older generations it's the other way around - kiwis following the Nix and foreigners being snobby about it?

Say what CT your saying im an old fart.WTF Oh hold on, your probably right actually with what you have posted there.

On expats: I can only speak from my own experience, and of those that I've known personally - both here and back in Oz.

My experience with old "Continentals" like myself is that we have moved countries "for good" in our heads a long time ago, and thus we support our local teams here, because this place is our home. Otherwise you are just stuck in the long-gone past.   Ironically, and somewhat unexpectedly, this process is also to do with having to adopt a new language, in my case English. This (new language) draws a very sharp line between "back over there" and "here now".  It requires you to make a conscious decision as to who you are, where you live, and who you identify with.

In contrast, relatively familiar cultural surroundings, language, and English heritage still strong in NZ may put less pressure on an average expat Brit here to even pose that kind of question .As a result, one could say that they physically move here, but maybe not quite as much in their heads. This could then contribute to a lesser acceptance of what they find in the Antipodes, and then leads to the infamous jibe of a "whingeing Pom".

Add to that the relatively full-on saturation of the local football coverage with all matters EPL at the expense of say the HAL, and it becomes easier for the expat to ignore the inferior product (A-League) in favour of something better. 

Ironically, the same does not apply to small local football clubs here,where many UK expats participate in both playing and managing, enthusiastically and effectively. Clubs here in ChCh thrive thanks to their daily grind. Such hands-on involvement promotes loyalty and a long-term club / community commitment, but that is probably harder for a club like the Nix. As there is only one Phoenix, for those UK expats who do not live in Welly the hands-on involvement / support / is harder and probably limited to TV viewing and to writing here, and so Phoenix probably loses out to EPL in head-to-head competition for attention. 

These are only my thoughts and I am sure that experience of others with this will be different - I will be happy to hear your views.

I was just wondering if the difference was because of younger kiwi generations being more exposed to global media, and globally there's really only a handful of clubs that are 'cool' to like. Combined with not having a local culture of football support this means that the Nix/A League are seen as lame relative to the likes of the glitzy MSN front line at Barca, for instance. On top of this, so much marketing for the Nix has been geared towards families which might mean that older men with kids have been more likely to go to games and establish an emotional connection to the club than young guys without kids.

All good as i said you are probably right.Yeah not sure they have it right with their main focus on families.Lets face it we dont play at family friendly times very often at all.

What I find though is a lot of the NZ eurosnobs (and a good chunk of those are people who went to the UK for their OE and came back to NZ supporting a team, although there are definitely the NZ fans who have no real connection to a team and have never even seen them live) don't actually watch the premier league, they support a team and follow them based on highlights packages, articles in the paper at smoko (they almost always follow one of the big teams), and whats on the news.

Because of the time that Premier League games are played not many people actually watch them live here. Because the Phoenix are playing at times that are watchable we should be able to get a real connection to fans, it's just about profile. But first they need to be able to support the team and follow them with a minimum of effort like they can with the premier league, by having discussions over the smoko table. That means more coverage than Man U gets because we need to break that bond first.

So buildups before games on the news and not just results, player profiles and information, articles in the news, etc. I'd love for us to get a breakfast cereal partner and have trading cards with the players names and profiles so that kids know them by sight.

One of the complaints that people have is that the Phoenix have no stars like the Warriors do and then they rattle off some names that I've never heard of. This is the same phenomenon that the European leagues have. Everyone's heard of Rooney or Ranaldo or Messi or Beckham. But not many people have heard of Bonevacia, or Riera or even Barbarouses. And the only reason they know of these people, with only a feigned interest in following the sport, is because the media gives them profile.

Make the players house hold names, put the team in the media, and we'll convert eurosnobs.  The best way to do it is through their kids, as they all returned from the UK to raise a family. Hence careal trading cards.

That doesn't matter, it appears as though we have two problems in the eyes of the FFA. One is our crowd numbers, the other is the broadcast figures. Our crowds aren't bad, but our broadcast figures are.

First thing is that we need to get families interested in the sport, get them along to the odd game which is on a family friendly time, but get them watching the sport on TV from the comfort of their own home. Most of the time it runs late for young kids, but it makes it an event. At least at home the kids can go to bed as soon as the games done.

I remember as a kid growing up that the best sports were the ones you stayed up for, it really made it an occasion. 

We need more people at games but we also need more people watching on TV, and a fan is a fan whether they buy a season pass or not. In the end its all just numbers for the FFAs accountants, and it doesn't matter what category the number falls into - TV or Attednance, it still adds the the tally.

Let's not forget that the broadcast figures may simply be influenced by factors other than the quality of the show on offer. To watch The Nix on telly you have to subscribe to SKY. Clearly not that many people do. I can't blame them. You would not be buying an abattoir if all you want is a piece of steak once a week. If there were other (measurable) legal ways of accessing Nix games be it online or on TV maybe we would see reasonable numbers of viewers, especially for those 7pm Sunday games.

Compare that to the number of struggling pros or jouneymen from lower levels who have come the  other way and done very well in the A League . Ifill probably top of that list