Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 2)

Care to expand? 

what was the question liam napier asked at rudan presser that appears to have so offended mr napier?

Ffa have Fairfax mates?

I love how the headline on our home page slants a completely different angle then that on our national media.

Same story but different headline paints it in a completely different light. 

The question is whom is really using their journalistic license with integrity? 

The person whom posted that or the journalist whom wrote the initial article and headline?

The headline on the YF home page?

The one I see on the YF home page is the same as the one on Stuff:

I thought the article was fair and balanced and asked some decent questions of pokies and the indirect 'funding' of a professional organisation. There is plenty of public interest in pokie funding full-stop.

I can't see Hyslop showing a particluar beef with the Nix over this. 

Let's face it, the issue is Rob Morrison's chip on his shoulder over the media. Not the other way round.

Put it another way, the relationship between Wellington United and the Nix has been opaque to me and this helped clarify a bit. Involvement of the pokie funding might not have been a 'smoking gun' but many people believe, in general, that this money gets misused in helping the community. 

Having a professional organisation close to being a recipient of the funds is a story.

Not sure of the structure of Ole (for instance, it might be not-for-profit) but if they were a professional organisation and receiving pokie money  in a similar round-a-bout manner I would still be interested in that as well.

Ole is non-profit and none of the players get paid. They also aren't being trained to the benefit of a specific professional club.

Pokies or Porkies?

That is the headline that was on the article. Like it always is. 

Nice to hear. Really wasn' having a go at them. Just trying to find another professional org that might be close in operating model. The Super rugby teams as mentioned in the article are a good comparison.

this just isn't true - shortly after ACFC came 3rd in the club world cup, the sunday star times ran an article claiming they were running a rort with pokie money

like this story it was a beat up, they weren't breaking any rules - the fact the rules aren't particular good is a different issue

Clubs use pokie money because the big sponsorships that they used to be able to get in the 80s and 90s don't exist anymore, one of the reasons they don't exist is the lack of exposure in local news media - which media organisation made a conscious decision last year to not to provide any coverage to local sport? Oh that's right Stuff, who ran these articles!

I think similar issues are more likely to be at the provincial level in rugby, and probably the small semi-pro ones at that. All Blacks and Super Rugby TV rights fund the professional game. Cricket is similar, it's at the club level where you get players getting paid for coaching that the irregularities are more likely. I fancy that the NBL might be an interesting one to look at; I don't know how/how much players are getting paid in that but there are guys who play for the Breakers or Aussie teams that play in it, so I'm sure they're getting something.

Liam is a journalist. It's his job to get these stories, whether they negatively impact the Nix or not.

Ole is helping amateur players become the best players they can be, ideally professional players, but all Ole gets out of that is a reputation boost. The Phoenix are a professional team, operating as a for-profit entity, that directly benefits from their academy's work.

Are Ole not a for profit entity with professional coaches as well?

Not defending the nix or anything, but there does seem to be a grey area here. 

Edit: Just saw you had said ole are non profit. I'm also not sure the Phoenix are for profit. 

If the Phoenix weren't a for-profit entity then there wouldn't be shares to own/sell. That is different from actively looking to make a profit out of the club, but when it comes to the trust funding the legal status is important.

There isn't anything in today's article that clearly says "the Phoenix broke the rules" and indeed some of what was mentioned is pretty standard practice (whether that practice is acceptable to the general public is something else), but I want to know what all of that money was used for because they can't have spent $600,000 on those few guys doing some coaching while they were academy players.

I bet Sky is paying more for college first 15 Rugby than they are for the A League coverage.

They are a professional sports team (clearly Ole are not). This is very black and white and the entire crux of the matter 

Apologies, I was looking at the headline on stuffs homepage which was completely different 

We all cheered a bit whenever Voerman went in on NZF, Hyslop's a decent journo doing a good job. It's not his job to make the Nix look good if they aren't. 

That's been forgotten, probably because its been a year or so since the Nix actually put the yards in with regards to media relations etc - including this back and forth, silence and questions over the ownership.

Hyslop's doing his job. Nix need to get a media chap to do theirs. 

I think a lot of us are just frustrated at the constant ear bashings the Nix have received over the last 18 or so months. Yes, the team didn't perform, but it appeared to be never ending - especially from Fox. So when a journalist actually has a story that may be relevant, it just pees people off as more Nix bashing. The club have answered this enquiry and now time to move on.

Good investigative journalism - yes, media beats ups just because there's boredom or nothing else to report, no!

In my interactions with Liam Hyslop and Andrew Voerman they have both come across as guys who love football and care deeply about the game in NZ. As a "stakeholder" I want the bad things to come to light because I don't think corruption is an acceptable means to an end and I'm glad our football journalists are willing to hold people to account.

I repeat, my issue is with the idea that if Rob M. was better with the media, this story about pokies money wouldn't have appeared. If so, that's corruption.

They had one, but he left...

The article pointed out facts point out no illegal activity. In saying why single out the Nix because they are a current news item.

I would guess every football club, amateur not for profit academy is minority funded with gaming machine money.

If you have sat down and read the allowed activities and not allowed activities of the many trusts you will find a great variety legally findable activities and many checks and balances to keep the funding legal.

ACFC went through a major audit a few years ago. West’s funding trust got audited during the early days of Ole.  Warriors were audited. 

Many have had to change relationships within organisations.  I think even horse racing NZ  is a recipient and funder of gaming money. 

Yes I’m on the Football Foundation committee.  Although Welnix group setup the independent academy with large personal investment.

It runs on mainly  personal donations, and a few grants.  

Blew - you should share with David Dome what goes on with FF committee 

I don't think that is even remotely what happened. It looks like Liam has been working on this since before the recent bust up with the Nix and the media. It's clear from a few of your posts in this thread that you don't have a lot of trust in the media, but I think it's pretty rough to be accusing Liam of having such loose ethics.

Dolores, corruption is not the press writing about it.

i) Some people say: story wouldn't have been published now if Rob M had been better with media (/ hadn't provoked it).

ii) Dolores says (by my reading): if the story hadn't appeared for that reason, that would've been corruption. (i.e. doesn't say anything about what did actually happen).

iii) Other people wildly misinterpret some or all of the above.

Have you ever thought that it's perhaps because we deserve the poor media? We have been a fudgeing shambles.

And Dolores - 'corruption'? Really? Get off it.

So, valeo and others see nothing wrong with a situation where a journo uncovers a legitimate negative story... and would not print it if he had a "good relationship" with the target, but would print it if he was insulted at a press conference?

That's how D. Trump operates. It's gangster ethics.

Apologies Doloras. My interpretation of what you were saying is that you thought it wouldn't have come to light.

I’m sure it is all very carefully structured, but Phoenix coaches being funded by gaming trust money, which is specifically for the amateur game, is quite clearly a story that’s of interest. No doubt plenty of funding is used for purposes other than players that end up at the nix.

But if you go back to the original question posed by the article it was “are the nix using gaming funding to subsidise their academy”, the answer is clearly yes. That may also be allowable under the rules.

The idea that this story is “revenge” for Rob getting shirty with Liam in a press conference is beyond ridiculous.

So was Chris Caretaker looking after the Phoenix first team this year while he was being paid pokie money or not? 

Like most employed people  they can be paid for their time  in amateur  activities if the funder covers that cost. (Activities)