Phoenix Transfer Speculation 2012/13

I can hear the heads of some of your fellow city fans exploding at the suggestion wayward.

Personally I think the solution is a side in the Aus NYL but for the reasons expressed it will never happen unless a non-FFA revenue stream is found to fund it.

Yeh it seemed odd in Brown we lost a starting midfielder and a goal scorer.

In theory we replaced the goal scorer, but we didn't sign anyone in the midfield.

People always used to bag Browny. Funny to hear them say how much they miss him now.
6 goals a season and a hard 90 minute graft each game is hard to replace.

Nope, still don't think we miss Brown. Is everyone forgetting our angst about our central midfield last year? Yes he scored a few goals but with Brockie instead of Greenacre we've more than made up for that. What's missing this season is Ifill creating and scoring chances!

edit: oh yeah, and obviously we still have some central midfield issues. I just don't think our midfield looked any better with Brown in there.

Midfield is missing and always has been missing a nicky carle

People can whinge about our midfield but it was never this bad. As others have mentioned, Muscat is looking well off his best form this year having to cover for Lia whom is getting dragged everywhere. Funny how that never happened with Brown...

There is no way we would be this poor in the middle of the field if Brown was there (goals excluded)

Good to see some quality discussion on here! 

Pretty excited to see how they improve on the 'youth academy' in future. There are a lot of obstacles to overcome, so if they pull it off and turn it into something decent, it'd be pretty impressive.

The reason why I think the academy discussion is important is that Welnix, and Ricky seems to have bought into this, are both saying our strategy to change playing style and improve the team is based on the academy production line.

I'm not really sure that the academy is advanced enough for this to work.  As Tegal has said, right now if we get the they are either good enough or they aren't.

But, actually, there has over the past three or four years been quite a bit of young talent coming through the NZ system - it's just we haven't got our hands on them.  I'm hopeless with names but if we can convince some of the young players who are going overseas that there is a future for them here like the Aussie clubs seems to have managed maybe thst is what they are hoping to achieve.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one - because they're talking about it so often.  But it needs resources if it's going to work and as T-X says with that system you also need to be prepared to sell your best players to pay for it.

I think part of the problem with our midfield is that we play a deep defence and push our wingers and fullbacks really wide so there's just far too much space between players in central midfield and anyone else. We either need to play a higher defensive line and/or get our wide players to drift infield a bit more. In the first game this season against Sydney we played a much higher line and we were able to control the midfield a lot more. We whinge about the hoofball and our mids not being good enough to string passes together but part of the problem is that there' s no options for them so they have to hoof it long or risk being caught in possession in isolation. And this also affects our defence too because once we lose possession the opposition teams, who mostly play a much more compact shape, can just rip us apart through the middle. Compounding our issues are the fact that we don't have a targetman to either get on the end of our crosses or chase down long balls. Between them Brown and Greenacre actually performed both these roles - Brown getting onto crosses and Greeny chasing longballs. However I don't think we should try and find guys to play those roles so we can still play the same style, I think we should change up our we actually go about playing.

For all the talk of a change of style this basic deep and wide shape is pretty much unchanged this season, and that's the major issue we face tactically. I would like to see us play a higher defensive line with our attacking wide players coming infield a lot more. Assuming everyone was fit and based on this season's form something like this:

                                    Moss

Bertos            Boxall             Durante          Hogg

                     Muscat           Sanchez

        Brockie              Ifill                 Boyd

                            Huysegems

Hogg ahead of Lochhead because more pace is needed to play an offside trap. Boxall instead of Siggy because Siggy's been wayward all season and Boxall also looks more comfortable on the ball. Sanchez pulled deeper to distribute and link defence and attack. Ifill playing centrally so he can be more involved. Brockie pulled back and play as a winger/wide AM because he scores crazy goals regardless of where he is but goes missing to much up front. Stein as a central striker because he seems like he could do the role of holding the ball up and picking out teammates with passes adequately if there were teammates around him to pass too, unlike there has been most games this season. Boyd and Brockie wouldn't be hugging the sidelines the whole time but would be coming in to support Ifill and Stein. If Muscat and Sanchez hold their positions any width we need can coming from Hogg and Leo overlapping. If we play a high defensive line the fullbacks won't have as much ground to cover to get back to their defensive positions if we get caught in possession.

I don't think our squad actually need much improvement to compete with the best teams in the league, we just need to change how we are setup to utilise the sort of players we do have to their maximum potential.

Edit: just realised after saying I don't think we miss Brown I kinda said the opposite in this post. Oh well, I think what I meant is that we miss Brown only if we want to keep playing the same style of football we have for the last few years, and I don't think we want to keep playing that style

Great post and spot-on.

Good Post Barry. Its true about our width....we have always attacked down the lines. If you look at lots of other sides...CCM for example they play a much more narrow game....their width comes from Rose and Bojic??? bombing down the flanks. Having more guys centrally would give better outlets for Sanchez if he was playing deeper. Plus there are more bodies in there defensively.....rather than now, as you said, when we lose the ball up top there are acres of space for their midfield to pour into.

I am still to be convinced that Ricki is the guy to fix all this stuff. I have not seen anything in the last 6 years to suggest that he is capable of playing a markedly different style. Because what we have been seeing in the last few games is not a dramatic change in formation. He has now put someone in the DM position who can pass properly(Sanchez) but we are still playing a "wingers" sort of game. The only difference is they are not lumping in loopy crosses as often. It falls down partly because we don't have a creative AM to set things up in the attacking third. But I am prepared to give Ricki the benefit of doubt....its still a work in progress.

IMO we need to pick either Boyd or Fenton and say...right you are playing more centrally. Fenton strikes me more as a pacey wing type guy while I think Boyd has better feet and composure.....Big ask for teenagers though to come and do that AM role

BZs post is great.

It comes down to how do we create a working creative midfield.  Ifill is more likely than Stein (loved HardNews' wide turning circle comment), Fenton is still young but could develop as a great central player.

Sanchez has improved the side but can't do it on his own.

Lia is not a quick enough, quality ballplaying midfielder to set up in a midfield three as one of your two more playmaking positions.  He can play a nice switch, but otherwise creative is not his thing.  And he's too slow.

Manny is a chopper at best at the moment.

Smith is not the solution. 

The prob with BZs post is we don't have Ifill. 

-> I'd give Fenton a crack centrally with Sanchez, Manny killing it behind.  And any three of Boyd, Stein, Brockie, Totori on as the top three.

Sanchez and Fenton looking to open up defenses from central with Stein, and Fenton can be given the additional license to push forward and wide interchanging with the Brockies/Boyds/Totori's. 

4-1-2-3

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Another point is we are seeing less from our wide defenders this year. 

Lochead is rarely making a decent contribution forward (yes, occassionally he can, but not consistently as in the past).

Leo can do it, but looks to have been concentrating on getting the D role sorted ... which is fair enough.  More signs of him getting forward in the last couple of games.

Would like to see those guys getting forward more in support of and overlapping the front three.  Has been happening.  Want more.  Hogg could make a difference and says that's the game he'd hope to play.

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all of which, I have realised, has nothing to do with transfer speculation.  Other than speculating we don't get any transfers, so do it with what we've got.

this is what we need as a starting lineup, not fussed about Hogg/Lochead but I think this lineup suits out players best abilities and instincts. Fenton or Boyd makes me happy.

Shock horror, has everyone finally fallen out of love with Sigmund? No... this can't be. The man who has never done wrong! this cannot be true.

Nah simple fact of the matter is that if we want to play a passing game he's not up for it. He was quality when were direct because he didn't need to do anything more than launch it, and we bypassed the midfield anyway so there was less of a gap between the lines than now when they're trying to push on (imo). Ricki had a style of play and he bought the players for it, nothing more nothing less.

I feel for him in that he's been a good servant of the club but simply put if the owners want total football he's first against the wall.

Siggy's attempted interceptions are killing us. Yeah they're good when he pulls them off but bloody hell when he misses we're in the shit and a man down at the back. Really hasn't been a great season for Siggy.

Well the window opens tomorrow.
What do we need? A central midfielder
What will we get? Sweet fuck all.

It's not my job to propose anyone. It's quite obvious we need a midfielder to link it all together and if Ricki and the owners want to make a change at this club then they should be looking for someone to fill this role.

No its not Spud but then why are you asking when its painfully obvious of the restrictions of signing one at this point in time? Can't be an import, they won't splash the cash and we are at the cap. That makes the choices extremely limited. If you can't suggest one with that criteria then what chance have the Welnix got of finding one?

Anyone up for a Clapham debate?

Hmmm fair points, it's just a gaping hole in our team and I hate having to resign myself to thinking that it's a problem that won't be solved this season.

How the hell could Clapham be worse?

Objectively, thats a good point. Manny is in a slump, and interestingly, the usual performer that 'always steps up' (Sigmund) is in a slump too.

I think he would provide more on the ball that Lia however he is not defensive minded. We already have a 'creative' midfielder in Sanchez.. Would he be an upgrade on Smith? Not sure.

Jeff Sole (I think) was saying in another thread that the word is that he is a notoriously lazy trainer as well (or words to that effect)

 whilst we are all well aware of the so called restrictions I think it's about time the owners looked at what ricki needs, cos I pretty sure he's telling them too, and fork out for a marquee man. They want wins, they need crowds, the fans are telling them we need some security nin the mids, ie a strong central midfielder who can defend and pass......so rather than saying we'll make the current squad change their playing style mid season, but in a decent man to make a change immediately!? It's what every other team does in the january transfer window and it's not like Gareth and co are short of money they are just tight!

 I'd take either.

Dont think its up to the fans to identify players everytime they want to point out a position we lack in.

However we could look at contracted players who arent getting much game time currently. Im thinking Caravella, Jonny McKain, Jimmy Jeggo, Mitch Cooper etc. 
All could play in the CM position. Not saying they would be the solution necessarily.  But there are probably plenty more guys like this who arent being played as much as they would like. 

Also, another option could be guys who are currently in their offseason - like matty mckay, or dan keat. Theres some suggestions

Best local midfielder I have seen this year was Chettleburg. not saying he could leap into the A-League straight off. Don't know enough about Clapham but obviously Ricki does not rate him. Too late IMO to get people in cold unless its a high quality import like a marquee like Ono and that is not going to happen

Think caravella was pretty decent for GCU, and had decent spells when given a shot at Adelaide. Can pass well but also solid on defense. Id say an upgrade to Lia - as he scores goals as well

Thought the K-League was in off season currently? Not that McKay is likely anyway

how hard would be to get tim brown back until the end of the season. oh and pay nicky carle what he wants

ricki looks at clapham and sees mulligan. 25 and still playing in the ASB forget about it