Agree, I’ve had a little bit of exposure to this type of school in the US, geared towards sports (basketball in the main) and my son actually attended one (as did Steven Adams actually). While very good for his basketball, excellent for him academically and in life. The only diwnside was it cost me a fortune loltheprof
Phoenix the inspiration behind one of a kind charter school - Wellington Phoenix no different to any of the other charter schools out there - in concept, ie a focus on a particular area - ie sport s performance instead of the army/a particular culture etc. If it brings in cash for Welnix and the board then why not get in on it early?
Of course, we all understand why you would not support this or even be remotely positive about it.
Apparently if the school had been around when he was young then David Seymour would have been an All Black.
Did you swallow that one as well?
didnt read that comment, not that Seymour's opinion about his own sporting ability as a kid has any bearing on whether I think this is a good thing for the Nix, but if its part of why you didnt like it then that's on you.
The main benefit of charter schools as a whole seems to be union busting. Plus they don’t seem to have to follow a whole lot of restrictions other schools do- cellphone bans, curriculum, reports, teachers pay scale and qualification requirements etc.
I think special character schools are basically private schools like the ones run by various churches. I think though they are supposed to, at least in theory, still follow a lot of standards the general public system does. I read a bit of a reporting by David Farrier on a religious school and their approach towards gay students, which in theory should have had some repercussions.
But given a specific reason of this one being so academy prospects don’t have to set speed records between school and various trainings and I’m a Nix fan I’m less allergic to it.
Agree, I’ve had a little bit of exposure to this type of school in the US, geared towards sports (basketball in the main) and my son actually attended one (as did Steven Adams actually). While very good for his basketball, excellent for him academically and in life. The only diwnside was it cost me a fortune loltheprof
Phoenix the inspiration behind one of a kind charter school - Wellington Phoenix no different to any of the other charter schools out there - in concept, ie a focus on a particular area - ie sport s performance instead of the army/a particular culture etc. If it brings in cash for Welnix and the board then why not get in on it early?
Of course, we all understand why you would not support this or even be remotely positive about it.
Is the cost any different from parents putting their child through one of the Football Academies. Could be wrong but i also thought scholarships were hopefully going to be available know. The Phoenix already operate a system to help families with costs if it needed.
For all thats been said about Domey on here and in social media in general this is a really good move, not just for the club (although there are benefits to the Phoenix being involved) but for football in general in this country.
There is no true good or bad way to develop/foster talent. But in my opinion, and its too early to tell in this case of course, but increasing pathways in the game should bear fruit long term in this country.
As others have said, if it also helps the Nix turn a buck or two then all the better for us right?
For all thats been said about Domey on here and in social media in general this is a really good move, not just for the club (although there are benefits to the Phoenix being involved) but for football in general in this country.
There is no true good or bad way to develop/foster talent. But in my opinion, and its too early to tell in this case of course, but increasing pathways in the game should bear fruit long term in this country.
As others have said, if it also helps the Nix turn a buck or two then all the better for us right?
Well done. 👏
Talking to people about it the thing i really like is they dont want it just to focus on Football but to eventually take in other sports. Also got the impression they dont just want it to focus on the playing side of sports but if successful take in other areas of sport. If they can pull it off think its exciting for young people to have somewhere to go where their main focus is sport while also keeping up their schooling.
The reason why David Seymour is selling it is union busting.
If that involves siphoning millions of dollars away from the public system and having a disjointed education system, he views it as money really well spent.martinb
coochiee
Manukura in Palmy North is producing excellent results in sports (rugby codes) and academically.
See that is called a 'character school' not charter. What's the difference?
The main benefit of charter schools as a whole seems to be union busting. Plus they don’t seem to have to follow a whole lot of restrictions other schools do- cellphone bans, curriculum, reports, teachers pay scale and qualification requirements etc.
I think special character schools are basically private schools like the ones run by various churches. I think though they are supposed to, at least in theory, still follow a lot of standards the general public system does. I read a bit of a reporting my David Farrier on a religious school and their approach towards gay students, which in theory should have had some repercussions.
But given a specific reason of this one being so academy prospects don’t have to set speed records between school and various trainings and I’m a Nix fan I’m less allergic to it.
The reason why David Seymour is selling it is union busting.
If that involves siphoning millions of dollars away from the public system and having a disjointed education system, he views it as money really well spent.martinb
coochiee
Manukura in Palmy North is producing excellent results in sports (rugby codes) and academically.
See that is called a 'character school' not charter. What's the difference?
The main benefit of charter schools as a whole seems to be union busting. Plus they don’t seem to have to follow a whole lot of restrictions other schools do- cellphone bans, curriculum, reports, teachers pay scale and qualification requirements etc.
I think special character schools are basically private schools like the ones run by various churches. I think though they are supposed to, at least in theory, still follow a lot of standards the general public system does. I read a bit of a reporting my David Farrier on a religious school and their approach towards gay students, which in theory should have had some repercussions.
But given a specific reason of this one being so academy prospects don’t have to set speed records between school and various trainings and I’m a Nix fan I’m less allergic to it.
earlier this year it was shown that the govt was spending over 5 times more per student in charter schools than public schools. Obviously from the Nix's perspective they want to reduce the risk of setting up a private school and trying to fund it, so getting the Govt to pay per student is beneficial to them (if not for the rest of society).
both above points are correct, as far as my own reading anyway. however, our current public school system is and has been failing students for years. If the private/charter mmodel proves more successful for students then why not invest in it. Maybe the public system has been focussing resources and spend in the wrong areas??
But siphoning money away from it for charter schools to do their own thing isn’t going to fix it.
not for every student no, but it will help for a good number of students who the mianstream system doesnt work for. So much is wrong wth our education system that has been broken for years. Although this is wildly off topic.
But siphoning money away from it for charter schools to do their own thing isn’t going to fix it.
not for every student no, but it will help for a good number of students who the mianstream system doesnt work for. So much is wrong wth our education system that has been broken for years. Although this is wildly off topic.
This is a policy about further stratifying society into haves and have nots, which is Seymour's main game.
At the same time, the kids in the academy are alteady from disproportionately from wealthy families given the cost of enrolment in the academy, so I don't see this making a difference in this isntance. It's one of the very few scenarios where a charter school makes sense.
In general, we're far better off investing in all NZ children via the public system rather than picking and choosing who has access to a high quality education - not that we do overly well at that as it is. Charter schools are a step in the wrong direction if thats the goal.
Charter schools is a step along the pathway of privatising education - seymour fundamentally doesnt believe in a public schooling system and believes it will always be worse than what the free market can deliver, but privatising the schooling system in one go is of course politically unpalatable. The charter school scheme is designed to undermine a common schooling experience and it uses government funds to do it.
At best Domey and the Nix are being useful idiots in serving Seymour's privatisation agenda but I suspect the truth is that Morrison is probably just as right wing as Seymour and is happy to do his part in realising it.
But siphoning money away from it for charter schools to do their own thing isn’t going to fix it.
not for every student no, but it will help for a good number of students who the mianstream system doesnt work for. So much is wrong wth our education system that has been broken for years. Although this is wildly off topic.
I mean will it? And how broken is our education really? And how is having a bunch of US idealogues and podcasters in key positions ‘fixing it’?
If you’re worried about non-academic pathways then not cutting apprenticeship funding and support seems like a good start, rather than chucking Billy and Susie in a class with a less qualified teacher who’s not allowed to teach about evolution seems like a good idea there.
It’s like currently hearing how our health system is broken and the best way to fix it is to reduce funding and have teleconferences instead of GP visits with a new non-doctor level of qualification with a private provider. The result is definitely more broken.
Or how the people who are being pushed out of sold off public housing and out of employment are sleeping in downtown Auckland, leading to cries of hypocrisy about that. Fewer taxes, fewer services, less society, more povos, ferals and mental health consumers underfoot between mansion and job.
FFS some of you are seeing agendas way beyond whats intended. Some pretty clear guidlines stated about what the aims are. But no some of you choose to forget that. The Phoenix do a pretty good job in helping some of those disadvantaged finanacaly.to be still able to attend acadamies. But that dosnt fit with retoric some of you like to bang on about. Im not a Seymour fan but in this instance i think you need to look beyond Seymour and his agenda
Well David shouldn’t be hanging out with David then.
Politicians like photo ops. Him launching it is probably part of the charter schools agreement being that its the first one in the capital city.
The decision is political, in the sense that they're using a politicians pet project to grow the club, but the jump to saying "this means Rob Morrison is an ACT supporter" is conspiracy theorist level of critical thinking. The club can use a political decision that is beneficial to them without it being tacit support for a racist, far right party.
It's not apolitical, but its also isnt any kind of statement by the Phoenix as to who their favorite politician is like some seem to believe.
Me benefitting from policy that sees me paying less tax under a National government doesn't mean I'll ever vote for them.
No idea about Rob, but John Key spoke at brother Lloyd's funeral. I think former ACT MP & lawyer Stephen Franks was a friend of Lloyd's. That is all pre Seymour.
Rob's brother (RIP) had some strong views on NZ and raising kids.
You mean like John Key, Nix fan for a photo shoot? And he was not alone. They all crawl out for a positive photo opportunity.
This school thing goes hand in hand with that nice education lady the Nix employed about 5 years ago to help with the academy lads and their schooling. Remember her Ballane?, she'd come to the odd practice and talk education with Surman, Paulson, Waine etc. I hope she is still involved. It gives the young players something to fall back on.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
I didn't say Morrison was an Act supporter or that Seymour is the Nix's favourite politician. People in his position generally are very right wing though (in the classical sense of being about low taxes and less government spending rather than high taxes and goverment services, not in terms of all the social issues that get associated with the political left and right).
But the fact of the matter is that the charter school scheme is not a good faith attempt to improve education generally, it is designed to undermine and ultimately dismantle universal public education (some libertarians genuinely believe this will improve education, while others are simply ideologically opposed to to concept of universal public education, whether that improves things or not). Informed people understand this. Morrison & Domey will understand this.
It is one of the biggest political changes you could conceivably make to this country, if not the biggest. To do anything within this space is an incredibly political act, either you are happy with the idea of public schooling being dismantled or you are not bothered about it happening. But it is a matter of such significance that even agnoticism is partisan, in my view.
Rob is relatively politically active as an investor and as part of several industry bodies.
This to me feels more like opportunism.
If I have it right Rob and David differ over climate change for a start.
At least I hope that’s the case, given the way this government is subsidising inaction and pollution and started throwing individuals most affected by the consequences such as flooding, under the bus. If you ignore a bunch of your future costs everything is fine! Bye, bye Tokelau!
Anyway, anyone rich enough to be investing to any great degree is involved in politics. In fact, everyone should be as citizens of a democracy.
The question of whether this has any party political implications for Rob’s future as a politician remain unanswered, but don’t feel enormously relevant? I feel like this is something that’ll help keep the Nix going.
We had the Fever with John Key early doors, Grant Robertson was often seen in the stands and the current PM was up with Auckland FC for their first game. None of that particularly helps the academy, whereas this should?
Edit: To answer your question ImaNix, yes, it’s all those things, but look at it another way- if a political party that was doing its 3 years offers free Nix memberships you’d take one right? This is something that’s available and will benefit the Phoenix. It could be part of a number of campaigns, benefiting a number of causes. Or it could be the Nix going- an easy to set up system with lots of free cherries and biscuits thrown in to ensure people like it? Sure why not?
There was talk about Rob becoming a politician, but he hasn’t announced anything yet, so I’m assuming that until he does he’s representing the Phoenix. Maybe it’s naive. Maybe I’m older and not living in NZ anymore. But maybe it is just that?
I didn't say Morrison was an Act supporter or that Seymour is the Nix's favourite politician. People in his position generally are very right wing though (in the classical sense of being about low taxes and less government spending rather than high taxes and goverment services, not in terms of all the social issues that get associated with the political left and right).
But the fact of the matter is that the charter school scheme is not a good faith attempt to improve education generally, it is designed to undermine and ultimately dismantle universal public education (some libertarians genuinely believe this will improve education, while others are simply ideologically opposed to to concept of universal public education, whether that improves things or not). Intelligent people understand this. Morrison & Domey will understand this.
It is one of the biggest political changes you could conceivably make to this country, if not the biggest. To do anything within this space is an incredibly political act, either you are happy with the idea of public schooling being dismantled or you are not bothered about it happening. But it is a matter of such significance that even agnoticism is partisan, in my view.
I fully agree about what Seymour is trying to achieve with charter schools, and his wider policies. However, benefitting from a government policy is not the same as endorsing the government, no matter how often you make the false equivalence.
Calling everyone who disagrees with you unintelligent doesn't exactly scream that you understand nuance though.
You're right, maybe I should have used the word "informed" instead of "intelligent" there. I'll edit my comment.
Fair edit, on reflection (and editing my initial negative reaction after thinking on it). That specific point i am with you on. It's just the leap afterwards I can't follow.
It is a philosphical disagreement we are having in this thread - I understand that people can take advantage of things without thinking they are necessarily agreeing with or endorsing associated persons or projects, but the way I see the world is that all actions (and even inactions) have effects and consequences, and I believe people should always be mindful of them.
Now, the nature of life means it is hard to always act with political and ideological purity but some things are more significant than others and I think this is one of those things.
That said you look at the contribution communists and radicals have made to New Zealand and it is very clear that we’d be worse off without them.
The 3 I’m thinking of are two writers and a historian.
Perhaps New Zealand’s most famous poet in Hone Tuwhare, the young adult historical fiction writer Elsie Locke who wrote about the New Zealand company, the Tarawera Eruption and other events and made them as exciting as the Lone Ranger and as real as the frontier of Laura Inglis Wilder and Dick Scott who wrote a variety of histories, but particularly made clear the story of Parihaka and saw it widely told.
I think we’re missing something of a trick somewhere that our idealists and idealistic are either not making the contributions they were or they are more easily marginalised and silenced these days.
And when we’re potentially about to lose Kiwibank, it’s worth remembering that this was an Alliance initiative and they were looking into the excessive cost of dental work before they disbanded. The kindness of the 3rd way is nicest when tempered with solid, specific initiatives to see off more idealistic colleagues that make observable long term differences.
If you feel the need to draw the line here, here’s some chalk. I think there’s plenty of insidious things being done that aren’t big reform measures that need highlighting and reversing too.
I'll also note that last time Seymour was in office and he got this charter school scheme going it was promptly dumped when Labour got back into office. It is Labour's stated policy that they will do the same when they are next elected. The Nix are swimming in incredibly political waters.
In our case, it cost around the equivalent of a year at a NZ private school. There were also various scholarships involved that reduced the costs further.ballane
Napier Phoenix
Agree, I’ve had a little bit of exposure to this type of school in the US, geared towards sports (basketball in the main) and my son actually attended one (as did Steven Adams actually). While very good for his basketball, excellent for him academically and in life. The only diwnside was it cost me a fortune loltheprof
Phoenix the inspiration behind one of a kind charter school - Wellington Phoenix no different to any of the other charter schools out there - in concept, ie a focus on a particular area - ie sport s performance instead of the army/a particular culture etc. If it brings in cash for Welnix and the board then why not get in on it early?
Of course, we all understand why you would not support this or even be remotely positive about it.
Is the cost any different from parents putting their child through one of the Football Academies. Could be wrong but i also thought scholarships were hopefully going to be available know. The Phoenix already operate a system to help families with costs if it needed.
Well David shouldn’t be hanging out with David then.
it's being opened under Seymour's policy - politicians are always at the opening of a new road, manufacturing plant and school.
pre and post last election Seymour banged on about charter schools lifting achievement for those failing in education, lifting participation for those not engaged in learning, alternative models for disengaged kids etc. Those who sit outside the norm. He obviously meant a football school didn't he.
Well David shouldn’t be hanging out with David then.
it's being opened under Seymour's policy - politicians are always at the opening of a new road, manufacturing plant and school.
pre and post last election Seymour banged on about charter schools lifting achievement for those failing in education, lifting participation for those not engaged in learning, alternative models for disengaged kids etc. Those who sit outside the norm. He obviously meant a football school didn't he.
I doubt he had a high performance sporting school in mind, lets be clear this academy is not just focussed on football - rugby is there for the first year as well and then other sporting codes will be added.
As far as I know, Seymour's policy was about getting the special interest schools back in action, allowing parents to get their kids into a targeted type of education, whether it be an army academy, French language academy, sporting academy or whatever!
Well David shouldn’t be hanging out with David then.
it's being opened under Seymour's policy - politicians are always at the opening of a new road, manufacturing plant and school.
pre and post last election Seymour banged on about charter schools lifting achievement for those failing in education, lifting participation for those not engaged in learning, alternative models for disengaged kids etc. Those who sit outside the norm. He obviously meant a football school didn't he.
I doubt he had a high performance sporting school in mind, lets be clear this academy is not just focussed on football - rugby is there for the first year as well and then other sporting codes will be added.
As far as I know, Seymour's policy was about getting the special interest schools back in action, allowing parents to get their kids into a targeted type of education, whether it be an army academy, French language academy, sporting academy or whatever!
I also understand they eventually want to expand it to cater for those who go into making up a successful Sportsperson.
both above points are correct, as far as my own reading anyway. however, our current public school system is and has been failing students for years. If the private/charter mmodel proves more successful for students then why not invest in it. Maybe the public system has been focussing resources and spend in the wrong areas??
It never does. It also doesn’t have the requirements of mainstream education , such as teacher registration, so you could end up with some act fud like Jago teaching kids…anyway, I won’t get political…
The charter school is good idea as it will help get young players at the Nix earlier. The reserves have traditionally had some school age kids in the group and with their training during the school day they effectively could not attend more than a period or 2 of school. This set up has prevented some players from joining.
The charter school will enable talented young players from around the country to join earlier as they will have more learning support for their education. At present kids there generally are enrolled in the Te Kura, NZ's online secondary school, which is good to have but not ideal for young players being away from home.
This Charter school set up helps differentiate Nix from AFC who don't really have an academy. This will provide players with an early pathway into the club and a chance for Nix to secure some of the talent pool earlier.
All politics aside this is a good move by Nix. I expect their will be some teething issues buy my understanding is that some talent has already signed up for next year and the school was a factor that made the decision easier for parents.
+4
