Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 2)

Jedinak the only one I can think of. And he went via Turkey and signed for Palace when they were in the championship.

I think you're both right, and was about to try and explain why, but Ryan just hit it on the head I reckon.

The difference is only minimal, but that little bit is actually really big at the same time. Kind of the 80/20 thing - you gotta have that 80% to become a professional, but it's all about how much of that other 20% you have or don't have, that's what will decide which league you are good enough to compete in. 

If you're just as good as an EPL player in every single category, except just a tiny fraction slower in the decision-making, then that could potentially be the difference between scoring 10 goals, or getting tackled and robbed of possession 10 times instead. So suddenly that fraction of difference becomes a chasm in terms of end product, and you're turfed into the lower leagues. 

I would put it in perspective, and just say that at the moment EPL is very good, while HAL is quite OK but not really a world top-ten class, therefore not that many HAL players of today would make it in EPL today.

Australia had a golden generation just about ten years ago, and it has peaked, yet they were all product of the old NSL. Think of Mark Viduka, Harry Kewell, Tim Cahill, Mark Bosnich, Mark Schwarzer (all EPL), or Marco Bresciano (who went from Carlton to Serie A and stayed there for years). Does it mean that NSL was a better quality league than HAL? I personally do not think so, it simply means that they were excellent players, in a long run of local talent developed in Australia that started with Craig Johnston and ended possibly with Mile Jedinak or Eddie Bosnar (in his peak days in the K-League).

All countries had a generational run of sensational, well coached players, combined with good coaching:  the Hungarians in the fifties, the Brazilians in the sixties, the Dutch and the Poles in the seventies, the Italians and the Argentinians in the eighties and so on. Local academies, money and the infrastructure have a lot to do with that, as has the level of the competition we compare the generation to (in this case the EPL).

I guess your definition of small differences and mine differ

You still don't get it, I'm not talking about percentage of players who are good enough I'm saying if you took the average a league player and the average premier league player that the difference in any one category between them would be marginal but the sum is insurmountable.

I am probably with Ryan on this. A really good A-League player would be OK compared to a good EPL player in maybe one skill category or two, but there would be many other skill areas where they might not be as good on average. However, some of that may also have to do with an individual team manager directing the player how to use their skillset.

I would take this argument in a opposite direction and say that one good A-League player of today could perform well (if not necessarily excel) in a Championship team or even a lower EPL team, as their relative deficiencies would disappear among other players, assuming similar fitness level and coaching directions. However, a team of best HAL players (an "A-League Select") would not necessarily be a EPL winner, as their overall deficiencies would tally up to a lower performance overall (speed, tactics, individual skillset).

OK so look at another sport say 100m sprint. The difference between Usain Bolt and NZ'S best whoever the hell that is is probably .3 or .4 of a second. It is marginal and insurmountable but that difference leaves the NZER eliminated in the heats.

Sure they are small differences but sometimes small differences do not even get you in the race.

The so called small differences are a chasm in reality

Yep but the point is your still watching a competition which is of a high quality and taken in isolation isn't too different from the top. If you are into running and you watch nz's best compete in isolation the quality appears no different from the world champs, people aren't tripping on their laces or running with bow legs, their technique is flawless and they are still fudgeing fast. Visually from a running stand point there is no difference between our best runners and Jamaica's best. It's only when you see them competing against each other that you realise that we aren't good enough.

So the point is that euro snobs should get over the fact that the aleague isn't a top euro league because the margins are small between them, and you mainly watch your league in isolation. The teams still look like football teams and still play a high quality game, they just lack those fractions to make them Bolt. But why does it matter? they are still all competent professionals playing in a close and exciting league.

I'd be shocked if that was true and of course it's impossible to prove, but the difference between amateur and pro should be much larger than two pro leagues.

This is also the nature of a salary capped league (and Ifill said this as well)- enormous levels of difference within teams. Whereas you'd expect a non-capped league's teams to be a bit more even in ability. 

It's hard to say where and how players develop. Jedinak is a player who obviously kept developing. As did Kruse, though he's not been getting selected recently. I'd put Kruse and Langerak in the developed in the A-league category. Playing for that Leverkusen team is as good a level as being in the Premier League. Ditto Dortmund.

The good thing about the A League is that it has progressed from guys seeking one last pay cheque. If you want to come and make a living you need to be about 28, 29 for the most part or a youngster trying to prove themselves. Sure there are a couple of exceptions like the City goalkeeper but then his level of fitness is exceptional. I think if the FFA give the league some slack, it will evolve into a very good competition. Now that we have at least 4 years, the club, fans and players csn plan for the future.

Although we lost last Saturday, I am feeling pretty upbeat and excited about Friday and beyond. I am looking forward to what our owners will now come up with for a plan to win this A League.

and also goalkeepers can generally perform at the highest levels much later than out field players- Friedel, Schwarzer, Van Der Saar et al...

My experience is that it is the English who moan about the standard - not Scots, not Irish, not Welsh but English.

I was at the Perth game and sure enough the three English people in front of me (I spoke with them) moaned incessantly about the "rubbish play." 

I have been watching, playing coaching refereeing and administering football in NZ for over 40 years and it has ALWAYS been the English.

I'm a hibbies  supporter and the reason the Scots don't complain is the spl isn't any better than the a league.

That's something i also heard from others who follow SPL full-time.  

Interestingly, Scott McDonald was excellent in SPL for Motherwell and Celtic while possibly not as prolific in EPL (for Middlesborough). Equally, he never managed to score for Australia at senior national level and was eventually omitted from their 2010 World Cup squad. I've always wondered whether that was an indication of the difference in relative league strengths, but even to me it sounds tenuous.

Nonsense. it makes a huge difference. We're a broad church, but with strong preference for angst. As a fellow Feverite, I'd simply hate it if you were an unreformed optimist.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id...

Bob Jones wants to erect a 5000m tall statue of Gareth Morgan to celebrate his over whleming Wonderfulness.

Angel of the South

I think you've just summed up exactly what he is saying.

Wellington's Harbour reminds me of Rio's in Brasil, Just on a smaller scale, Would suit a Statue pity Jones was being sarcastic about it.

Hibs are not in the SPL !

Nob Jones would probably like one of himself but he's too mean to pay for it.

He reminds me of the old rich fart on the Simpsons, that owns the nuclear plant haha

Mr Burns.

From an ad for a new role the Nix have advertised...

The vision is to position the Phoenix as a ‘national brand’

The strategic plan includes expansion into Asia-Pacific leveraging the global reach of Football to grow business opportunities throughout New Zealand, with a focus on the development of the Phoenix academy and a new High Performance centre.

Fixed

..and Anthony, we're watching you, don't even think about it!

Who is gonna do the transfer paper work?

who does it now?

I could, except I'm going on leave to an internet dead zone during the next change window, would that stop me getting the job?

You are over qualified

Welnix should hook up some of those Syrian refugees moving to Wellington with free Nix tickets. They like their football and have big families. Get them involved early and you will create a whole generation of life long fans.

For many refugees the key to a successful assimilation (apart from feeling safe and being able to make a living) is to belong.

For a football-literate new arrival there are few better ways of belonging than by having a club they can support and identify with.

Assimilate them with 10,000 football fans in NZ & get them alienated by 4.5 million egg ball nutters!!!!

Hardly, you would probably find most NZ'ers would be happy they are simply assimilating regardless of the sport. 

Egg Ball or nothing for a lot of the meat heads!

If you're not a rugby fan you are not a true blue NZer (Not my opinion, of course!)

You using FFA metrics Hatter 10000 football fans.?

Either way there are 600 + Syrians coming to Wellington over the next few years, they like football and come from a country where they aren't biased towards EPL or other Euro leagues (A lot of British migrants). Good chance to convert them now before they isolate themselves. The knock on affects of there participation could be huge for the community. From English language immersion, to employment opportunities and their children playing club football.

One family had 10 children, if just the dad went in the family with half those kids to a game it would pump up the metrics. Not to mention many of the refugees will bring their parents, brothers, sisters etc over. A lot of our population growth in NZ is migration, if the Phoenix want to hit their ten year targets it may involve grabbing every opportunity they can get. 

May also pay to keep in mind they probably won't discover the Phoenix themselves, they won't have pay TV, language skills or the financial resources/awareness to make games.