Wellington Phoenix Men

Yellow Fury vs NQ Fury (Match Fred)

924 replies · 31,397 views
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
He is playing 1 up front and persisting with it, week after week.
 
Almost every week now we play well first half and take the foot off the gas in the 2nd half - what does he say to them at half time? Whatever it is, it's not having the desired effect unless it's "sit back and hope you don't concede, don't worry too much about scoring again".
 
He's certainly not blamelss. Far too cautious in his set up.


So we take a creative player off and put another striker on (or push Ifill fully forward and lose his work rate in the middle of the pitch) and we should start scoring in droves??? You are looking at the same group of players who can't put away the bucket load of chances they are getting now... Start Chen, who do you drop? Bar McKain, that team is the strongest Phoenix team we have.

Until its tried its hard to speculate on how it would go but my gut feeling is that you could play 4-4-2 and get more of the same.
 
 
This is the point though, Herbert doesn't try anything different, it's the same every week and so far it's gotten us 1 win in 7 games.
 
Greenacre is getting nowhere up front on his own, he has nobody to play off and spends most of his day chasing lost causes into the channels which lead to nothing 99 times out of 100. He needs some help up there.
 
First half today, yes we were better at getting bodies forward and should have scored a couple more, second half, very little happening up front at all forthe most part.
 
Someone mentioned 3-5-2 on a another thread, perhaps that is worth a go as well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Zephyr wrote:
I could park my Zimmer frame on the back post and I'd be top scorer already. 


lol true.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.

Also, keeper stuff.  I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
 
Hope you are feeling better
 
Anyway, I think we are playing with 1 sold proper striker, with the 3 behind being charged with getting up to support him in attack and to drop back to midfield when we don't have the ball, so more a 451 to 4231 for me...still one focal point to our forward line which makes it easy for the 2 opposition centre backs to dominate Greenacre too much, give him a chance to have someone to play up there with him, he holds the ball up well and needs someone to lay balls off too...
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
theprof wrote:
he means we played ok until the 94th minute....trouble is news, that last minute cost us 2 points! which we really needed!


And the reality is that we did not play at all well in the second half!
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.

Also, keeper stuff.  I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
 
Sorry, but that formation is not a 4-3-3, it is a 4-5-1 with Ifill and Bertos getting forward when possible.
 
Greenacre in the 2nd half was isolated up front, and not for the first time this season. This simply wouldn't be the case if we were truly playing a 4-3-3.
 
Paston doesn't fill me with confidence sometimes but I don't think he did much wrong today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Well quit supporting them then.

Seriously, we created a million chances today based on formation and tactics we played (in both halves) were the dominant side, apart from going out on the pitch I struggle to see how on earth RH can do more than that.  At some stage the people paid the money to score the goals may just actually have to do it.

Sure, if playing 1 up front meant we struggled to create chances then I could understand the angst but quite clearly that isn't the case.  We create plenty of chances, we control possession and we play more balls in to the area than our opposition, at that point it stops being the managers job and it needs the players to finish those chances.


Yep. I said in the 7th minute to anyone that would listen that we'd need to be 2 or more up to be assured of points because Folwer etc could grab a goal at any point of the game and stuff us up. I was even more nervous with 10 to go when it became evident we wouldn't score.

If we dominate games like that we need to put the chances away and win by 4, then a 94th minute goal wouldn't matter
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.

Also, keeper stuff.  I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.


yeh Greenacre had a lot of support, but all the defenders attention. Couldnt poach any sneaky goals
martinb2009-09-20 18:39:47


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.Also, keeper stuff.� I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
We are not really playing 3 up front. Greenacre is the only player in a real striker position and so gets over-marked which means he gets no chances to score.

Also I hope I am exempt from any keeper-related bannings.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
As posted earlier in this thread by someone else I am going to re-iterate it.

I still love the Phoenix.

But I am very disappointed and am not pointing any fingers at this stage.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.


Pretty much the point I'm making. Its the players, not the coaches. At some point the strikers will have to earn their paycheck and do what they are paid for.

Why would you switch to a 3-5-2? What defender would you drop to bring in.....

Again, bar McKain, the best 11 are on the pitch. None of this Diego-Costa-Rojas crap. The best 11 are on the pitch...

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.Also, keeper stuff.  I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
We are not really playing 3 up front. Greenacre is the only player in a real striker position and so gets over-marked which means he gets no chances to score.

Also I hope I am exempt from any keeper-related bannings.
So you should, we know your stance.
You know we belong together...

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We need terry to do what he did last season, that seemed to spark the players up a bit.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.Also, keeper stuff.� I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.


�

Sorry, but that formation is not a 4-3-3, it is a 4-5-1 with Ifill and Bertos getting forward when possible.

�

Greenacre in the 2nd half was isolated up front, and not for the first time this season. This simply wouldn't be the case if we were truly playing a 4-3-3.

�

Paston doesn't fill me with confidence sometimes but I don't think he did much wrong today.
4-5-1? It is far closer to 4-2-3-1 (In fact it is) then 4-5-1.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.

Also, keeper stuff.  I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
 
Sorry, but that formation is not a 4-3-3, it is a 4-5-1 with Ifill and Bertos getting forward when possible.
 
Greenacre in the 2nd half was isolated up front, and not for the first time this season. This simply wouldn't be the case if we were truly playing a 4-3-3.
 
Paston doesn't fill me with confidence sometimes but I don't think he did much wrong today.


so you missed that kick in the 2nd minute and late in the second half when he came out to collect the ball from a corner, flapped his hands around then watched the ball sail passed him ?

not to mention the Fowler free kick.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:


Again, bar McKain, the best 11 are on the pitch. None of this Diego-Costa-Rojas crap. The best 11 are on the pitch...
 
Yet can't beat that rubbish that was in front of them today....
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
For my 2 cents worth, what a great goal for us. By half time we should have had 4. Daniel should have scored but I dont think he was expecting it and he had his back to the goal. The game overall was pretty scrappy.
 
Now, as soon as the 4th official stuck his sign up, I started my stopwatch. I counted off the 3 minutes and the gamne was still going. try 4 mins 36 seconds of extra time. I'm still seething over that. If they had missed their goal, just how much longer was that plank going to play?? There were a few things he missed for us. Dodgy tackles ignored by their players.
 
Sure we should have finished them off. The good news is that we are creating the chances. That's better than not creating them at all. Ifill was sadley missed once he went off. I am disappointed for sure that they could not do themselves justice, but that w**ker wearing a yellow jersey in the middle is going to be my source for laying the blame. 4 minutes 36 seconds does not equal 3 minutes in anyones language.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wolfman wrote:
Hard News wrote:
Well quit supporting them then.Seriously, we created a million chances today based on formation and tactics we played (in both halves) were the dominant side, apart from going out on the pitch I struggle to see how on earth RH can do more than that.� At some stage the people paid the money to score the goals may just actually have to do it.Sure, if playing 1 up front meant we struggled to create chances then I could understand the angst but quite clearly that isn't the case.� We create plenty of chances, we control possession and we play more balls in to the area than our opposition, at that point it stops being the managers job and it needs the players to finish those chances.




�

+1

�

I don't think the formation is the problem. Last season crosses were� going into a lone striker in the box. This season the attitude is more positive, there are bodies in the box, chances are being created, but the goals are not coming.

�

Remember, one of the best stats about Smeltz was that he scored his goals from very few opportunities. We are creating a lot more chances, just no-one has the Smeltz Midas touch at present.


+2
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
For my 2 cents worth, what a great goal for us. By half time we should have had 4. Daniel should have scored but I dont think he was expecting it and he had his back to the goal. The game overall was pretty scrappy.
�

Now, as soon as the 4th official stuck his sign up, I started my stopwatch. I counted off the 3 minutes and the gamne was still going. try 4 mins 36 seconds of extra time. I'm still seething over that. If they had missed their goal, just how much longer was that plank going to play?? There were a few things he missed for us. Dodgy tackles ignored by their players.

�

Sure we should have finished them off. The good news is that we are creating the chances. That's better than not creating them at all. Ifill was sadley missed once he went off. I am disappointed for sure that they could not do themselves justice, but that w**ker wearing a yellow jersey in the middle is going to be my source for laying the blame. 4 minutes 36 seconds does not equal 3 minutes in anyones language.
4 minutes 36
seconds does not equal 3 minutes in anyones language.

Does Australian count as a language?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
martinb wrote:
ok Lochy was gd,Greenacre was gd...Caceres also good.Hearfield rusty...Costa who dat?


Sorry, but for me Lochy was asleep marking his player for the goal.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:


Again, bar McKain, the best 11 are on the pitch. None of this Diego-Costa-Rojas crap. The best 11 are on the pitch...
 
Yet can't beat that rubbish that was in front of them today....


well costa had one good game last season and hasnt been seen this year yet. did get chances preseason...I think it is a legitimate query on him.  Subs didnt seal the game, but Caceres came close


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
For my 2 cents worth, what a great goal for us. By half time we should have had 4. Daniel should have scored but I dont think he was expecting it and he had his back to the goal. The game overall was pretty scrappy.
 
Now, as soon as the 4th official stuck his sign up, I started my stopwatch. I counted off the 3 minutes and the gamne was still going. try 4 mins 36 seconds of extra time. I'm still seething over that. If they had missed their goal, just how much longer was that plank going to play?? There were a few things he missed for us. Dodgy tackles ignored by their players.
 
Sure we should have finished them off. The good news is that we are creating the chances. That's better than not creating them at all. Ifill was sadley missed once he went off. I am disappointed for sure that they could not do themselves justice, but that w**ker wearing a yellow jersey in the middle is going to be my source for laying the blame. 4 minutes 36 seconds does not equal 3 minutes in anyones language.


Did you stop your watch for the two yellows in that 3 minutes added on? Also its a minimum 3 minutes, not 3 minutes and its game over.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
irnbru14 wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:


Again, bar McKain, the best 11 are on the pitch. None of this Diego-Costa-Rojas crap. The best 11 are on the pitch...
 
Yet can't beat that rubbish that was in front of them today....


Yup and thats why I say its the players and not the coaches. Again we have been the more dominant team in 5 of the 7 we have played...
Jeff Vader2009-09-20 18:55:56

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I particularly like how the 2nd half was all about us and nothing to do with a better effort from a North Queensland side that beat Sydney last week.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
martinb wrote:

irnbru14 wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
Again, bar McKain, the best 11 are on the pitch. None of this Diego-Costa-Rojas crap. The best 11 are on the pitch...

�

Yet can't beat that rubbish that was in front of them today....
well costa had one good game last season and hasnt been seen this year yet. did get chances preseason...I think it is a legitimate query on him.� Subs didnt seal the game, but Caceres came close


Caceres provided a brilliant cross that Ferrante headed over the bar. At least I think it was Caceres.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Torne wrote:
Lonegunmen wrote:
For my 2 cents worth, what a great goal for us. By half time we should have had 4. Daniel should have scored but I dont think he was expecting it and he had his back to the goal. The game overall was pretty scrappy.
�

Now, as soon as the 4th official stuck his sign up, I started my stopwatch. I counted off the 3 minutes and the gamne was still going. try 4 mins 36 seconds of extra time. I'm still seething over that. If they had missed their goal, just how much longer was that plank going to play?? There were a few things he missed for us. Dodgy tackles ignored by their players.

�

Sure we should have finished them off. The good news is that we are creating the chances. That's better than not creating them at all. Ifill was sadley missed once he went off. I am disappointed for sure that they could not do themselves justice, but that w**ker wearing a yellow jersey in the middle is going to be my source for laying the blame. 4 minutes 36 seconds does not equal 3 minutes in anyones language.
4 minutes 36
seconds does not equal 3 minutes in anyones language.

Does Australian count as a language?


i'm a fan of blaming the ref, but we can't at the end of the day if you don't finish this stuff happens. Maybe the refs stop watch is poorly made and 1 second is actually .8 seconds ( im not being serious about the watch)clark007e2009-09-20 18:52:01
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lochhead did well today and running down the line and creating some chances, looked more like the Lochhead of season one. Overlapping, he, Daniel and Leo and even Greenacre all worked that left side well.
 
Was it just me or dod a lot of the game look schoolboyish when all the players were withing 25 yards of each other - excluding the goalkeepers?? It just seemed very bunched and they had a couple of VERY big players in their side.
 
Also, perfect day to watch football, not a cloud in the sky. Under 10k there? Looked a few more than that.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
whooooooo wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.

Also, keeper stuff.  I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
 
Sorry, but that formation is not a 4-3-3, it is a 4-5-1 with Ifill and Bertos getting forward when possible.
 
Greenacre in the 2nd half was isolated up front, and not for the first time this season. This simply wouldn't be the case if we were truly playing a 4-3-3.
 
Paston doesn't fill me with confidence sometimes but I don't think he did much wrong today.


so you missed that kick in the 2nd minute and late in the second half when he came out to collect the ball from a corner, flapped his hands around then watched the ball sail passed him ?

not to mention the Fowler free kick.
 
Yes I wasn't in the stadium yet because Ticketek are so SLOW getting through the ticket queues that it's not even funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
clark007e wrote:
Torne wrote:
Lonegunmen wrote:
For my 2 cents worth, what a great goal for us. By half time we should have had 4. Daniel should have scored but I dont think he was expecting it and he had his back to the goal. The game overall was pretty scrappy.
�

Now, as soon as the 4th official stuck his sign up, I started my stopwatch. I counted off the 3 minutes and the gamne was still going. try 4 mins 36 seconds of extra time. I'm still seething over that. If they had missed their goal, just how much longer was that plank going to play?? There were a few things he missed for us. Dodgy tackles ignored by their players.

�

Sure we should have finished them off. The good news is that we are creating the chances. That's better than not creating them at all. Ifill was sadley missed once he went off. I am disappointed for sure that they could not do themselves justice, but that w**ker wearing a yellow jersey in the middle is going to be my source for laying the blame. 4 minutes 36 seconds does not equal 3 minutes in anyones language.
4 minutes 36
seconds does not equal 3 minutes in anyones language.

Does Australian count as a language?


i'm a fan of blaming the ref, but we can't at the end of the day if you don't finish this stuff happens. Maybe the refs stop watch is poorly made and 1 second is actually .8 seconds ( im not being serious about the watch)

I agree. But disagree about the watch
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
I particularly like how the 2nd half was all about us and nothing to do with a better effort from a North Queensland side that beat Sydney last week.

I'll disagree with you because they were still rubbish in the 2nd half. I think it was more us allowing them to play than them actually siezing any dominance. The substitution of Ifill I think proves that because we turned into a different team (again) when he went off.

At least I had 2 things confirmed today. Johhny Tambo has never stuck with a club other than an NZ franchise because he is average and Dodd proved he certainly didn't justify the money he was rumoured to be asking from the Phoenix. The reason why they are bottom is because of the CB pairing. Hell they have God up front .....

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
I particularly like how the 2nd half was all about us and nothing to do with a better effort from a North Queensland side that beat Sydney last week.
 
Oh come on, this argument was used in the Adelaide game as well.
 
If teams are changing their tactics against us 2nd half then we must adapt. Ricki, however, just keeps things the same and hopes for the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
whooooooo wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.

Also, keeper stuff.  I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
 
Sorry, but that formation is not a 4-3-3, it is a 4-5-1 with Ifill and Bertos getting forward when possible.
 
Greenacre in the 2nd half was isolated up front, and not for the first time this season. This simply wouldn't be the case if we were truly playing a 4-3-3.
 
Paston doesn't fill me with confidence sometimes but I don't think he did much wrong today.


so you missed that kick in the 2nd minute and late in the second half when he came out to collect the ball from a corner, flapped his hands around then watched the ball sail passed him ?

not to mention the Fowler free kick.
 
Yes I wasn't in the stadium yet because Ticketek are so SLOW getting through the ticket queues that it's not even funny.


watch the replay and you'll see what i mean..............................................
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I love how this thread would have been completely different if we had won.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.Also, keeper stuff.  I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
We are not really playing 3 up front. Greenacre is the only player in a real striker position and so gets over-marked which means he gets no chances to score.

Also I hope I am exempt from any keeper-related bannings.


FYI. Tony read out the team before kickoff. He basically finished with - "3 up front, Paul Ifill, Chris Greeancre and Leo Bertos".
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
clark007e wrote:
I love how this thread would have been completely different if we had won.
This has got to be one of the worst comments I have ever seen on this forum. You could say that about any match thread, MOM thread or any other thread relating to a game where we lost.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Royal wrote:

Hard News wrote:
There seems to be a fixation that we're playing one up front but the reality is that Ifill and Bertos flow in and out of the attack so we're effectively playing 4-3-3 and three up front.Also, keeper stuff.� I'm just looking to get banny after being stuck in bed for three days and missing todays game so don't give me an excuse.
We are not really playing 3 up front. Greenacre is the only player in a real striker position and so gets over-marked which means he gets no chances to score.

Also I hope I am exempt from any keeper-related bannings.
FYI. Tony read out the team before kickoff. He basically finished with - "3 up front, Paul Ifill, Chris Greeancre and Leo Bertos".
Yes I know but if you look at our formation it doesn't look like we are playing 3 up front. They say it so it looks more offensive and attractive. They are not exactly playing in the midfieler either. We are definatly playing 4-2-3-1 at the moment with Daniel wider and slightly deeper.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
clark007e wrote:
I love how this thread would have been completely different if we had won.
 
Erm, but we didn't?
 
The 2nd half would still have been rubbish, but of course we'd have been happy with 3 points having been a little lucky to have held on.
 
Of course though, we didn't, so what is your point exactly?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:
irnbru14 wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:


Again, bar McKain, the best 11 are on the pitch. None of this Diego-Costa-Rojas crap. The best 11 are on the pitch...
 
Yet can't beat that rubbish that was in front of them today....


Yup and thats why I say its the players and not the coaches. Again we have been the more dominant team in 5 of the 7 we have played...
 
And if its not working, it is the coaches responsibility to try and change it to get a result...
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
clark007e wrote:
I love how this thread would have been completely different if we had won.
This has got to be one of the worst comments I have ever seen on this forum. You could say that about any match thread, MOM thread or any other thread relating to a game where we lost.


except that the last 20 seconds of a 5820 second game changes the overall feeling of the thread considerably. djtim30002009-09-20 19:03:46
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
How about....

Sack Ricki?

(Taking the Mickey by the way)
scoop2009-09-20 19:04:28

All Aboard the Phoenix/ All Whites Bandwagon!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yellow Fever found Marco Rojas, we can sure as hell find another manager !!!!!!!!


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